Feedback about VIDEO PRO X15

Comments

browj2 wrote on 12/2/2023, 8:33 AM

@CubeAce @Almin @Reyfox

Hi,

I am pretty sure that most Boris FX do not work in VPX. BCC Title Studio is the only one that I have that works. Particle Illusion is a free standalone, the plugin is not for VPX. Look at the Boris FX site and you'll see that most Boris products are limited to only a few hosts - "Supports one of the following hosts on a single workstation: Adobe, Avid, Flame, Nuke, VEGAS Pro or Hit Film."

As you can see, you can probably load Boris PI in VPX, but it doesn't work properly. All OFX are not created equally, it seems.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

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CubeAce wrote on 12/2/2023, 9:45 AM

@browj2

Hi John.

As far as I'm aware the Boris effects particle illusion supplied with the newer versions of Vegas is a plugin. It will not work as such within VPX.

You cannot use some of the OFX effects plugins in VPX to create transitions like you can with Vegas. OFX support in VPX is not as well implemented as in Vegas.

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

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Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

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1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

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Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

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VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

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Reyfox wrote on 12/2/2023, 11:40 AM

@browj2, @CubeAce @Almin Boris FX Particle Illusion has been available for some time as a free standalone. You can create whatever, render the file with an alpha background in ProRes. There is even a way to add an image (no video) into the standalone version, but I have forgotten how. In addition, if you do have the plugin, you will also have the standalone version, which is always a later (newer) version than the free standalone.

As for it being supplied with Vegas, rarely. It's usually Primatte Studio in Vegas Suite or sometimes Title Studio. PI plugin can be bought as part of the Vegas "Movie Expansion Pack" that includes other plugins such as BorisFX Particles Unit (PI), Image Restoration Unit, Film Style Unit NBFX Transitions 5 and Titler 7, all for the wonderful price of an additional $199. Oh, and ActionVFX Action Pack 2 is a part of that package. PI has always been a plugin first, and then a standalone.

If you try and run PI 2024 in VPX (at least VPX14), VPX will crash repeatedly and consistently. I guess that can be taken as it "doesn't work properly", meaning with VPX. That's because it seems that VPX doesn't fully support OFX compliant plugins. Every OFX plugin I have shows up in HFP, Vegas Pro, and Resolve, all OFX compliant. And while not every single part of the OFX plugin will be seen in editing software supporting OFX, that comes down to the host application.

As for hosts that Boris FX will run on, here are the supported hosts, a virtual "who's who" in professional video editing and compositing: Adobe After Effects and Premiere Pro, Avid Media Composer, Davinci Resolve, Foundry Nuke, Autodesk Flame, VEGAS Pro, and Hitfilm Pro (2021.3 is the only version I have). And since about 2019, Final Cut Pro is being supported, but no PI integration yet. Saying it's limited to only a few hosts isn't quite an accurate statement. It won't work with consumer editing software. "Professional" editing software it does work. I just tried PI in Davinci Resolve Studio 18.6, and it works wonderfully.

 

popfizz wrote on 1/3/2024, 9:36 AM

My feedback is that I'm done with Vegas. All the crashing. On a slower computer Resolve works MUCH smoother. Crashing in pro 10 - pro 19 Magix needs to rebuild the software or just give up...because its deeply flawed. There are 100's reasons why Vegas will crash. Unacceptable at this point. Your support is lame and your software is unusable. I love the interface....but bottom line. It's flawed and a waste of time. I'm done. Anyone pays a subscription every month for this is missing out on programs that actually work. I would totally stay with Vegas if I had any confidence in the company. I see nothing that indicates anything will improve. It's just time to give up on it. End of story. Vegas...I've had it!

browj2 wrote on 1/3/2024, 12:19 PM

@popfizz

Hi,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. A few others here may not. Since you've posted under a thread on Feedback about VIDEO PRO X15, which is definitely not Vegas, does this mean that you are now going to move from Vegas to Video Pro X, an entirely different program?

This is not the Vegas forum.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

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Reyfox wrote on 1/3/2024, 12:24 PM

@popfizz have you read the title of this thread? It has nothing to do with Vegas. This is the wrong forum too.

Every product is flawed, that's why there are bug fixes, including Resolve. You only have one post? Post in the correct user forum. Heck, you can even post your specific issues, and even hear others who are editing away with the software, including myself. Vegas has been rock solid for me, and 365 has offered music and other assets making it worthwhile.

But your mileage may vary....

popfizz wrote on 1/4/2024, 2:21 PM

My bad for posting in the wrong place. While I am here I would like to state...I wouldn't say VPX has nothing to do with Vegas Pro......they are still owned by Magix and the similarities might end there. However...I had a look at the interface. It looks similar. Oh yes, one other thing they have in common that I've read that VPX also crashes A LOT and is not that stable. I've also read reviews that say Vegas Pro is actually better. Well, that really turns me off to VPX. Hey...I've used Samplitude since very early 2000's. One of the first users. Still use it. But their video editing programs are problematic. I just fear that going to VPX from Video Pro 19 which is so unstable....will be another headache. Just viewing the timeline in Resolve is MUCH smoother. I also had less trouble with pro x 10 than pro x 19. Even though this isn't pro x...it shows their "development" team is not at the top of their game. Since VPX is based here in the US is the support better? Magix Pro support is abysmally bad. I am done with Magix Pro so I don't think I would try another Magix editing program. Resolve seems ultra confusing....but I'll get it. There is no question that in the professional world of editing you read that Resolve is THE most often used replacement for Premiere. And Final Cut has lost a lot of steam and is out of the picture. Doesn't that say something right there?

Reyfox wrote on 1/4/2024, 3:11 PM

@popfizz, the timeline editing, while there are some similarities, and this is with all editing software, are different between VPX and VP in how they edit. And VPX edits top down, unlike Vegas/Resolve/Media Composer/FCP/Premiere, which edit bottom up.

As for crashing, again, your mileage may vary. What you usually read are about the problems that a user might be having, while others, who don't have that issue, usually don't say anything.

Resolve is a "loss leader" for BMD. They give away an excellent free version. And the Studio version (which I have with the Speed Editor) is "only" $295 "forever". BMD can do this because of their hardware sales. They don't "live and die" by their software sales or giveaways. And then you have the "content creator influencers" who all have "switched" to DR. It's like the camera reviewers who "I switched from Nikon to Canon", and later "I switched from Canon to Panasonic..." ad nauseam.

It means nothing unless you use the software and also see the bugs reported in the user forum. Yes, DR has bugs, otherwise why issue patch updates?. Some might again, affect one person, but not someone else.

browj2 wrote on 1/5/2024, 6:00 PM

@popfizz

Hi,

Your support is lame...

I see from your post on the Vegas forum that the top guy on the Vegas team has replied to you on the forum and, interestingly, your only request for support was about Hub features and you were told that you needed a subscription. Given that, rhetorical question, how is support lame?

Oh yes, one other thing they have in common that I've read that VPX also crashes A LOT and is not that stable.

Where did you read that? Certainly not on this forum. Some users have problems, but they are usually installation problems caused by an over-zealous firewall, hardware that is way under-spec, or especially video recordings that have variable frames rates - a no-no for most video editing programs.

Looking at the Vegas forum as well as lost Vegas posters in this forum, I see complaints on a daily basis about Vegas crashing or not running. Not so for VPX. It works fine for me.

@Reyfox

Hi,

If you try and run PI 2024 in VPX (at least VPX14), VPX will crash repeatedly and consistently. I guess that can be taken as it "doesn't work properly", meaning with VPX. That's because it seems that VPX doesn't fully support OFX compliant plugins.

One has to wonder why. Could it be that these OFXs use features that are not available in programs like VPX? Or, could it be that many OFX plugins are not truly compliant but have been made to work with only certain hosts - those where there is the most potential for $?

Looking at the Boris site for the PI plugin, they list the few Hosts that their OFX's work with:

Compatibility: Adobe After Effects, Premiere Pro, Avid Media Composer, and OFX hosts, Foundry's NUKE, Resolve, and VEGAS Pro.

...and OFX hosts,... which I read as only the 3 listed, not other programs that are also OFX hosts. Note that Adobe After Effects, Premiere Pro, Avid Media Composer are not listed as OFX hosts. This makes me suspect that PI plugin is not truly OFX compliant.

Boris BCC Title Studio seems to work fine on both MMS2024 and VPX15. However, notice that Boris only has part of the effects in OFX and the main part is a separate interface. I presume that the same is true in Vegas and other OFX hosts.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

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Reyfox wrote on 1/6/2024, 9:25 AM
@Reyfox

Hi,

If you try and run PI 2024 in VPX (at least VPX14), VPX will crash repeatedly and consistently. I guess that can be taken as it "doesn't work properly", meaning with VPX. That's because it seems that VPX doesn't fully support OFX compliant plugins.

One has to wonder why. Could it be that these OFXs use features that are not available in programs like VPX? Or, could it be that many OFX plugins are not truly compliant but have been made to work with only certain hosts - those where there is the most potential for $?

And why would not there be any potential for "$" with VPX? Especially if Boris is following the OFX standards? Or is it because maybe, VPX doesn't fully support that standard?

Looking at the Boris site for the PI plugin, they list the few Hosts that their OFX's work with:

Compatibility: Adobe After Effects, Premiere Pro, Avid Media Composer, and OFX hosts, Foundry's NUKE, Resolve, and VEGAS Pro.

...and OFX hosts,... which I read as only the 3 listed, not other programs that are also OFX hosts. Note that Adobe After Effects, Premiere Pro, Avid Media Composer are not listed as OFX hosts. This makes me suspect that PI plugin is not truly OFX compliant.

Thanks for the correction. You are right, Adobe and MC are not OFX hosts. But, again, on the Boris website, this is what they wrote for OFX compatibility: OFX hosts, Foundry's NUKE, Resolve, and VEGAS Pro. Now you can read that as only 3 supported, but I will try and add a screenshot of an OFX Host software, Hitfilm Pro 2021.3, that does work fully with the Particle Illusion OFX plugin. Also, scroll down a bit to see the definition of OFX HOST, in OFX TERMINOLOGY.

Please note that you will not see, at least in VPX14, when you put the plugin on a video, the choice of FX Browser that you see in Vegas, Resolve and HFP. Why? This makes me suspect that VPX14 isn't OFX compliant.

Boris BCC Title Studio seems to work fine on both MMS2024 and VPX15. However, notice that Boris only has part of the effects in OFX and the main part is a separate interface. I presume that the same is true in Vegas and other OFX hosts.

Boris Title Studio is painful to use in VPX14. It's slow, painfully, and unresponsive a lot of the time. Compare that to the way it will work in Vegas. You do have a copy of it if I am not mistaken. And concerning only part of the effects showing up OFX, and the main part is a separate interface, where do you see this? I see an option for FX Browser or Launch UI Window. You can decide if you want to work off a template, or create your own title. Once either is open, you can go to FX Browser or Advanced at a click of a button. There is nothing missing. What is missing in VPX14 is the FX Browser button. It's not missing in Vegas, Resolve or HFP. Three entirely different editing software from 3 different companies. Again, open your copy of Vegas and see for yourself. In addition, I can not view the video TS is placed on in Composite over Background in either Advanced or FX Browser in VPX14? I can in the other 3 I've listed. Maybe that was fixed in VPX15?

Vegas crashes. Yes, people post them along with a host of other problems they are having. But do you follow the replies to those posts to see if there is a solution? Vegas Post 21 is running wonderfully on my computer and many others. The ones who are not posting about crashes. Are there issues with it? For sure!! But even most of those posting about crashes, when they are asked for information, either don't give it or just rant. Makes me wonder if they have a pirated version. There are certain questions that can be asked that can usually ascertain the legality of their software.

As you know, users tend to post about problems. If you aren't having any, rarely do they post. Maybe you see more issues in Vegas because more people use it?

VPX14 PI Error.

Hitfilm Pro 2021.3 Particle Illusion FX Browser button in Vegas and Resolve but not in VPX14.

 

browj2 wrote on 1/6/2024, 1:18 PM

@Reyfox

Hi,

And why would not there be any potential for "$" with VPX?

$ - you said it yourself, more people use Vegas...probably. I would say more pros making money and willing to spend money use Vegas. As for VPX,

As far as crashes, to cover more users, I just added in and looked at the German forum to go with the English and French forums, and I am still not seeing problems with VPX crashing even close to the extent that I see them on the Vegas forum.

In the Vegas forum, I see posts every day about crashes and I do watch to see if they get resolved; some do, some just disappear, left behind. I agree, many are rants and piracy is also an issue. Still, how often does Vegas crash for you?

And concerning only part of the effects showing up OFX, and the main part is a separate interface, where do you see this? I see an option for FX Browser or Launch UI Window.

The separate interface is the one you get with "Launch UI Window."

Yes, I did try it in Vegas quite a while back and it did work better. I don't actually use BCC Titler, but not because it's slow. The templates are fine, but modifying or creating anything first requires a 3 year university degree. I have enough trouble trying to decipher BluffTitler. Maybe some day when I'm old... I mean older.

I am pretty sure that the PI OFX plugin is not intended to be used with VPX. As you found, it doesn't work. And, as I mentioned, it could be that the Boris OFX plugins (except for Titler) use features not found in VPX, or it could be that VPX is not fully compliant, or both. I do find it strange that Boris specifically mentions 3 programs as OFX hosts, rather than just OFX hosts.

It may be like VST3 plugins. VPX doesn't use them, Vegas has trouble with some of them, and even Samplitude Pro X8 has trouble with some of them. A user on the Samplitude forum complained and said that Magix should work with certain VST3 x, y and z suppliers to "fix" the problems with Samplitude. Magix replied that they are working with x, y and z to get them to be VST3 compliant. The problem seems to be that the suppliers get their VST3 plugin to work with a couple of hosts so they stop there and assume that since it works, it must be compliant. But, the plugins are not actually VST3 compliant. Could this be the case with OFX? Just saying.

John CB

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

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Reyfox wrote on 1/6/2024, 3:04 PM

@browj2

Greetings!

Vegas crashing for me personally. I recently (last week) worked 6 hours non-stop (except for bathroom/snack breaks, but the software is still open),in one day and not one crash or stall. This was repeated during this same editing week on a particular project. This is the norm for me working with Vegas. Question. If it crashes for hypothetically "you" and doesn't crash for "me", where does the fault fall? Software? Hardware? What's installed on the computer? And I agree, Vegas does crash, but not often for me. And I do a lot with some videos working in 10 bit 422 4K, using plugins (especially Continuum 2024), and whatever is necessary. Vegas has been rock stable for me. If it's not crashing like "every second" as some write, for me, but does for you, were is the issue? And if it crashed as much as people say, who in their right mind would continue to use it when there are alternatives, such as Davinci Resolve Free? You don't have to pay for it, every "influencer" raves about it, it's "professional", what more can one want?

If software works for me, I don't mind paying for it. If it doesn't, I don't need the stress troubleshooting, trying to figure out "workarounds", etc., all the while paying to suffer and not edit. I'll just move on, just as I have done in the past. I have Davinci Resolve Studio 18.6.4 Build 6 installed on my computer. Have had it for several years now. A gift from my wonderful wife. Oh, the Speed Editor too. It's been updated with every update at zero cost to me. Some stellar features. Still have yet edit anything with it. It would be easy to not pay for Vegas and just move to Resolve.

As for PI, I posted in the Boris forum about it and VPX. I await their answer. I've had conversations in the past with a couple of the project engineers there, so hope one chimes in. But tell me, how can you explain the FX Browser not appearing in VPX, yet it does in other software, including, the not listed Hitfilm Pro?

From this LINK. Particle Illusion 2022 is compatible with Adobe After Effects, Premiere Pro, Avid Media Composer, and OFX hosts, Foundry's NUKE, Resolve, VEGAS Pro, and Quantel. And not included in this list, or in the current list is..... Hitfilm Pro, where it does work fully. Oh, and Vegas Effects too. See screenshots below.

Boris Title Studio. It works, consumes every bit of system RAM I have, and starting from scratch, I just don't have the time. I prefer NBFX TP7.

HFP 2021, Particle Illusion

Vegas Effects, Particle Illusion

CubeAce wrote on 1/6/2024, 5:09 PM

@popfizz @Reyfox @browj2

Hi Guys.

Not wanting to add to argument but personally I feel a degree of component choice also goes a long way to stability and the speed of certain plugins of various programs and effects. Since just changing my graphics card alone I have seen an increase in stability in Vegas I previously did not enjoy. Not that I suffered crashes but certain effects never remained stable for me on exporting projects. I have very rarely had crashes in VPX or MMS / MEP but Boris and OFX in general don't seem to have the same degree of support within MEP VPX that Vegas has on my machine. For instance Boris Titler is better supported in Vegas for me than VPX but works slower in Vegas. Boris Titler works very similar to Particle Illusion. I find the more I get used to one, the easier the other is to use.

Could it be that the difference in the way a Ryzen processor works compared to the way an Intel processor works be a part of the reason we see different results?

The problem as I see it with Windows based machines in general is that of trying to get all of these different components from different manufacturers to work seamlessly in any program that can't possibly be tested for all components in what if a Frankenstein mishmash of parts. I sometimes wonder how anything works at all, let alone well.

So the main variables as to anyone's own experience is down to.

Personal choice of program. What works for the individual and their needs and what they can cope with technically.

Component choice. That can be a minefield and is argued over which is better but really doesn't matter if it works the person using it.

Technical knowledge. This one is my own personal opinion. So many people now use smaller programs on their phones keyed to work on operating systems that are locked into an ecosystem that just works. So when they come into the world of Windows which can be messy at this level they haven't a clue of the needs of processing or why one program works flawlessly for them but not another they blame the program and not the fact the above factors have any bearing on their problems. They are used to things just working.

Sorry to have been away for a while but had trouble getting my password to work and had trouble resetting it to log in.

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

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Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

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Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

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browj2 wrote on 1/6/2024, 5:26 PM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

To add to your list - source videos that are not problematic - fixed frame rate, not variable frame rate.

EDIT:

@Reyfox

Pleased to know that you don't have frequent crashes with Vegas.

But tell me, how can you explain the FX Browser not appearing in VPX, yet it does in other software, including, the not listed Hitfilm Pro?

I don't know, but FX Browser does show up under BCC Titler and I can open it. I think that I just figured out what to do with it.

RE-EDIT - That was for MMS2024 - I see the FX Browser. I don't see it in VPX15! How can that be?

In MMS:

In VPX15 - no FX Browser:

As for it working slow, it seems to work fast now. Maybe something changed with VPX/MMS since I last tried it.

John CB

Last changed by browj2 on 1/6/2024, 5:53 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

John C.B.

VideoPro X(16); Movie Studio 2024 Platinum; MM2025 Premium Edition; Samplitude Pro X8 Suite; see About me for more.

Desktop System - Windows 10 Pro 22H2; MB ROG STRIX B560-A Gaming WiFi; Graphics Card Zotac Gaming NVIDIA GeForce RTX-3060, PS; Power supply EVGA 750W; Intel Core i7-10700K @ 3.80GHz (UHD Graphics 630); RAM 32 GB; OS on Kingston SSD 1TB; secondary WD 2TB; others 1.5TB, 3TB, 500GB, 4TB, 5TB, 6TB, 8TB; three monitors - HP 25" main, LG 4K 27" second, HP 27" third; Casio WK-225 piano keyboard; M-Audio M-Track USB mixer.

Notebook - Microsoft Surface Pro 4, i5-6300U, 8 GB RAM, 256 SSD, W10 Pro 20H2.

YouTube Channel: @JCBrownVideos

Reyfox wrote on 1/7/2024, 9:08 AM
@CubeAce wrote:

The problem as I see it with Windows based machines in general is that of trying to get all of these different components from different manufacturers to work seamlessly in any program that can't possibly be tested for all components in what if a Frankenstein mishmash of parts. I sometimes wonder how anything works at all, let alone well.

@CubeAce

I've always wondered that myself. With an infinite variable mix of hardware, software, etc., it is amazing how anything works!

I remember when I did a remote session with someone who couldn't install the software. Looking at the machine, checking everything, and still the software did not install. It should have, but it didn't. Something was missing or causing issues. I couldn't find it. And this was on a new Windows installation.

@browj2, in VPX14, FX Browser isn't there. But in MEP2022, it is. And yes, how can that be?

Reyfox wrote on 1/11/2024, 3:40 PM

@browj2, @CubeAce

Ok... I received a message from both the Continuum Lead Engineer and the Senior Product Manager.

From Continuum Lead Engineer:

"The reality is that OFX hosts and OFX plugins have enormous complexity that can’t be captured by the minimalist definitions of the OFX spec. So while there are many OFX hosts that implement the spec and many OFX plugins that implement the spec, the shear complexity of the combined environments and different valid but nuanced interpretations of the spec will inevitably mean that many things will fail without custom host<->plugin tuning by one or both sides. Sometimes there are outright bugs on one side or another, but we feel we’ve solved all such problems that we know of over the years on our side. More often the issue comes down to subtle differences in expectation from one side or another, and those inevitably require custom workarounds from one or both sides. I would absolutely say that Continuum is fully OFX compliant, but the reality is that every plugin<->host pairing requires significant custom tuning."

From the Senior Product Manager:

"It really seems to me like it must be something on the Magix side of the equation - we develop our software to align with the official OFX API, which it does in the OFX hosts that we support such as Vegas Pro, Nuke, Resolve etc, and (for the most part) it’s up to the host to properly implement the OFX API so that the effects that make calls through this API can function as expected. If the support isn’t there on the host side then we can’t do much to make the effects work as expected.

PI does not have the FX Browser or the FX Editor but it has it’s own custom GUI."

So I hope that helps to clear up the OFX issues.

CubeAce wrote on 1/11/2024, 7:18 PM

@Reyfox

Hi Tony.

That pretty much sums up my experiences.

@browj2

Hi John.

Yes it appears so. You can still get to the Boris Titler Browser once you open the main GUI so no big loss.

Ray.

 

Last changed by CubeAce on 1/11/2024, 7:33 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Reyfox wrote on 1/12/2024, 3:24 AM

@CubeAce,

Yep! Boris Title Studio does work fully once it's opened.

I don't know how much work it would take to get VPX/MMS more compliant with OFX, but they seem to have a start. If anything, listing OFX plugins that can be used might be selling point. Especially for Video Pro X.

CubeAce wrote on 1/12/2024, 4:15 AM

@Reyfox @browj2

Hi Tony.

Not quite. If you select to see the video clip in the background within Boris titler it doesn't appear in VPX. At least on my system.

Other than that it does work with the same degree of control.

Other new blue OFX effects cannot be used as transitions that can be used that way within Vegas.

Again I feel these differences are deliberately left out of VPX to differentiate abilities between the various program offerings. Hence my feeling of a more tiered approach to the way Magix now presents and sells its product line.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 1/12/2024, 6:58 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Reyfox wrote on 1/12/2024, 6:06 AM

Hi Tony.

Not quite. If you select to see the video clip in the background within Boris titler it doesn't appear in VPX. At least on my system.

Other than that it does work with the same degree of control.

Other new blue OFX effects cannot be used as transitions that can be used that way within Vegas.

Again I feel these differences are deliberately left out of VPX to differentiate abilities between the various program offerings. Hence my feeling of a more tiered approach to the way Magix now presents and sells its product line.

@CubeAce

Greetings Ray,

I would have to disagree with you on your last comment. When did Magix acquire Vegas? And how long has OFX plugins worked in Vegas before the Magix acquisition? It would certainly be a disservice to VPX users who thought they were buying a "pro" editing software like it has been advertised in the past.

I don't think many who use VPX will transition to Vegas. It would require them to learn an entirely different program. Like when VMS users thought they were upgrading and found out they were doing a cross grade to MEP.

I don't know how far along in OFX API implementation Magix has come, but it does look like there is some implementation of it. How much more in resources would it take to go the rest of the way, I don't know. Maybe they can't without a major re-write, and the ROI might not be there for them to do it.

A video for VPX from 5 years ago.

From 2 years ago. At the end, "Simply High End". So that is what I would expect. High end plugin support.

CubeAce wrote on 1/12/2024, 7:14 AM

@Reyfox

Hi Tony.

Then I will have to respectfully disagree with you 🙂. Abilities have been taken away from Both MMS and VPX over last generations that remain in Vegas and Vegas acquires new abilities that never seem to get ported into VPX. Even the spec pages for Vegas are higher than for VPX.

Yes it is a learning curve to go from one to another but wouldn't Magix prefer you bought another Magix product over a competitors where you would have to relearn a new workflow anyway?

Ray.

 

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Reyfox wrote on 1/12/2024, 8:01 AM

@CubeAce

Greetings Ray!

No issues with you disagreeing at all! VEGAS is it's own separate entity in the Magix family. It is still operated in the States, and a lot of the original coders are still there. Gary Rebholz is the product owner operating under the Magix umbrella, with VEGAS operating as a separate company. I really don't see how any of what has been programmed into Vegas (and there is much more to come) can be "ported" over. Can you give an example?

The specs page for Vegas has always been higher than VPX. Always. Especially with camera support. "Sony" Vegas Pro 13 supported Red Dragon/Red One (VP9) .r3d, XDCAM, in addition to Panasonic P2 AVC-Intra and DVCPRO. VPX never has to my knowledge supported these formats. I could be wrong though. It also had Hitfilm support back then too. The way Vegas edits back "then" is the same way it edits now with the basically a lot of the same feature set, but upgraded. What has been added is additional support for BRAW and a lot of ProRes exporting formats. Vegas 11 had OFX supporting Boris, Red Giant and other OFX plugins. Nesting tracks has been around since before Magix.

You would be the expert on what has been removed from MMS/VPX. Why Magix would do this is anyone's guess. I never thought that VPX and VP were in the same "class" of editing software. Vegas was always "Pro", Sony just dropped the ball on it and let it languish.

CubeAce wrote on 1/12/2024, 10:21 AM

Hi Tony.

For one thing, both VPX and MMS more recently lost the ability to chose to use the Main Concept encoder.

Vegas has retained it I think. (As far as I know as I don't have the most recent version). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

VPX and MMS has lost the basic Vegas stabiliser I believe. (again I don't have either of the latest releases but I think I remember seeing that on a post.) Object tracking has never been as accurate in VPX / MEP.

It's not so much what is being left out as much as what is has not been added. No AI support. No ability to import projects from other applications. Lack of encoding decoding options. Less tolerant of variable frame rate video.

The fact that I can't do as much with the OFX plugins even though they were shipped with VPX/ MEP.

On the up side VPX / MMS are possibly more responsive because of that on my machine although recently after the last few Windows updates they have slowed a bit. I think it is because the last update did not have enough room in a partition I wasn't aware of.

Ray.

 

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Reyfox wrote on 1/12/2024, 10:50 AM

Ray!!

Main Concept MPEG-1 and 2 are still present in Vegas 21. I've never used it myself and haven't read about anyone in the Vegas forum recommending it's use.

I guess losing the Vegas stabilizer might be problematic. I've used it a few times, but I don't have shaky footage to begin with. And then there is the Mercalli V5 Suite and if you have Vegas Pro Suite, rocking Mocha Vegas. But Mocha Vegas is an OFX built plugin so it works in Vegas.

I can point to Mocha Vegas again (it's not a part of Vegas Edit, but the next level up, the Suite) for motion tracking. But Vegas has it's own motion tracking that does and ok job.

AI plugins, agreed, they are nice, but still are a work in progress. Import projects from other applications? Can you be more specific? Vegas has always been ahead of Magix in codec support. Variable frame rate footage can still be problematic depending on the source of it, and how big the difference is between the high and low fps.

Vegas has stated that they are in the process of re-writing the code. They've said it will take some time, but they are doing it in certain parts of the software. They didn't have the "manpower" before to do things. That is why they decided to drop Vegas Movie Studio. To concentrate on Vegas Pro. Maybe that is where their money is.

I don't know the sales/income of VPX vs MMS and everything that goes with it, but maybe they should do the same thing? Decide on what to work on, and do it? I don't know about MMS2023/24, but do they support 10bit video yet? If not, that's a shame, considering all the other consumer editors do. and VPX should get better OFX support.