I assume you mean P.H. 

The one and only! 👍

OK ok. I give in.

I can't follow all the the technical stuff that floats around but now we've gone cryptic ... 👴🏻

For you Neat video users, in MEP 2021, when we applied Neat Video to a clip, the Neat Video effect appeared in the applied effects area under the keyframe editor. One could tick it on and off to see it's effect (or speed up timeline scrolling). In MMS 2023, I can't get it to display. Other effects, such as SPR, appear as before.

Can anybody confirm?

@AAProds

I can confirm this!

Actually the problem goes rather further (as I've just PM'd direct to @AAProds); third-party effects which DO show in the KF Editor cannot be (temporarily) "shut off" to check exactly what difference they are making, the tick box is not tickable. To make this check one must remove them completely, far from ideal.

See this screenshot (which I'm also sending to Support as a bug report):

Jeff
Forum Moderator

@AAProds @emmrecs

Greetings both (and indeed anyone else with an opinion),

Around this time of year I treat myself to a little something for me, no-one else just me. Being the extravagant person I am I'm toying with upgrading to MS 2023 OR buying Neat Video.

A lot of what I "do" is old stuff recorded on 1st generation home VHS camcorders, that sort of thing. I've played with the demo of Neat and I'm quite impressed with what it can do despite the multicoloured stamp saying "Neat Video Demo" but I'm not 100% convinced it fully justifies a wad of my pension.

And so the question is:- is MS 2023 really worth upgrading to?

it does what I want it to and I've got used to 2022's quirks and foibles and no longer rant at it.

I think that deep down I already know the answer, but I'd appreciate hearing from people that use or have tried both.

AndyW

And another quick question if I may:- Neat video is a one off payment and doesn't have to be renewed each year?

OK that one seems more of a statement but I mean it as a question.

@me_again

Get Neat Video, without a doubt. I didn't play with 2022 very much because I was so disgusted with it, particularly with the problems with Section and AVI handling. I upgraded to 2023 to do the right thing, but I can't really see much difference. 2023 might render faster, but the killer app is definitely Neat Video. The only downside is that it renders quite slowly compared to normal. I am so impressed by it I've got the Virtual Dub version as well.

I do think the NV payment is a one-off.

So treat yourself, Andy, and rid yourself of that multi-coloured watermark!

@me_again

Hi.

Last 'question' first.

Neat video is just like MS. You can upgrade at a reduced cost or keep your existing version.

The other questions I personally find harder to give an opinion on.

I trialed Neat video and found it hard to get right. I feel it may take some time to get the best out of with lots of practice. It took ages to render anything on my machine but your PC specs are way ahead of my own.

I only tend to upgrade to a new version of MS or VPX when either there is a third party plugin I would like to have is offered or there seems to be a benefit to the core program. Judging by the latest patch it would seem the developers are taking more notice of crash reports than fixing non working parts of the program that have been impaired for years now. So I'm running MS2022 and VPX12 and reasonably happy with both. I still get the discount offer if I wish to skip a generation of the program or not so I wait in anticipation for those users who say, 'This is the best release yet'. On that I'm not holding my breath. 🤣😉

I have workarounds for those bits that don't work in my versions. I dislike having to go through all the 'what settings will work better for me in this version' and wondering when I will upgrade once too often as each time I upgrade at present I have suffered some slowdown in the program in some circumstances.

Ray.

@AAProds @CubeAce

Thanks for the replies. I was teetering on the edge of buying Neat Video and youve both now pushed right over the edge. All I've got to do now is see if the £ gets a lot better against the € or $. Actually, thinking about it I may have to wait a long time. And I've just noticed that the prices quoted by Neat do not have VAT added. It's a non-optional extra. Harumph. Won't stop me though.

Ray, I agree with "Judging by the latest patch it would seem the developers are taking more notice of crash reports than fixing non working parts of the program that have been impaired for years now".

For over 2 decades (thereabouts) since I first had MEP I bought a new version every 2 years and each one was, by and large, a big improvement on the previous version I had.

Since 2018 I've upgraded every year and there are apparently still bugs / errors in version 2023 that I complained about years ago as well as a truckload on new ones.

Besides that, I dont use 90% of the 3rd party plugins I have. Extra plugins is not really an incentive to upgrade. A good unbugged version however would certainly go towards persuading me.

Al, "So treat yourself, Andy" is all very well but if my wife finds out your name will be at the top of the list of collaborators.

AndyW

@me_again

All I've got to do now is see if the £ gets a lot better against the € or $. Actually, thinking about it I may have to wait a long time.

Liz has just fixed that. Watch the pound jump!

 if my wife finds out your name will be at the top of the list of collaborators.

Don't worry, I'll use the SGT Schultz defence; you'll be on your own then!

I trialed Neat video and found it hard to get right. I feel it may take some time to get the best out of with lots of practice.

I actually find it pretty easy to use, especially if you have a nice consistent area for it to detect the noise. You can fiddle with the sliders and fine-tune the noise reduction amount pretty easily; I mean to say, it's not VHS if it doesn't have a bit of noise! 👍

@AAProds @me_again @emmrecs

I actually find it pretty easy to use, especially if you have a nice consistent area for it to detect the noise.

I think that has been my main problem. My videos don't often have that much in the way of clear sections of block colour. Either my selections have been deemed 'too small' or are not consistent for a noise sample.

Ray.

@me_again

Hi Andy,

If you can live with the foibles of MEP2022, then go for Neat Video as it will likely give you the biggest bang for your buck or £. I last paid in 2019 and have updated to the latest patch (free). There may be a version 6 around the corner, but I probably won't upgrade as it works just fine.

For cleaning up VHS and 8mm/Super 8, Neat Video is a must.

MS2023 fixed many things that should have been in a last 2022 patch, particularly with Size/Position/Rotation. The latest patch addressed many of the crashing issues. But, like I said, if you can live with 2022, stay there until we see what 2024 has to offer (after the first patch) in about a year. Also, watch for sales.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I you don't have noise to clean up, then it's hard to do with NV.

If you do, usually caused by insufficient lighting, then find a clip from the same camera that has a sufficient area to detect noise, clean it up, and save the noise profile for use on similar clips. In the same project, I just copy/paste the effect.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

Yes it has been my nighttime shooting, but the lack of noise levels has improved since I dropped the frame rate for lower light situations. Then it is just a matter of keeping the camera steadier. Motion blur from subjects in frame is okay. Motion blur from camera shake is not okay. I should also use my DSLR more for lower light shooting but that has it's own set of problems. At least that gives me live view histograms and shooting information via a reasonable sized view screen. I am beginning to see the advantage of getting myself a dedicated half decent camcorder at some point. I still believe that getting it right at the time of taking the video as it really cuts down on post production and something I constantly try to improve.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I still believe that getting it right at the time of taking the video as it really cuts down on post production

That definitely is key, in more ways than one.

I miss my video camera - the connection between the flipout monitor and the body gave up. I took it apart a few years ago intending to replace piece. Never got around to it. I've been using my GoPro and cell phone ever since, and, on occasion, my old DSLR (max. full HD). What I miss most is the zoom capability.

John CB

Greetings all

@AAProds wrote

For you Neat video users, in MEP 2021, when we applied Neat Video to a clip, the Neat Video effect appeared in the applied effects area under the keyframe editor. One could tick it on and off to see it's effect (or speed up timeline scrolling). In MMS 2023, I can't get it to display. Other effects, such as SPR, appear as before.

Also a problem with Mercalli Pro v5 in MS2023. It shows in the Effects Overview window but cannot be disabled (unchecked).

Is it me or should I raise a ticket?

AnsyW

@me_again

Is it me or should I raise a ticket?

Do it! Although I suspect that the young nerds now in charge of Magix have decided that, because it technically is not keyframeable (I think mentioned here somewhere), it doesn't belong in the Keyframe area so we'll just get rid of it totally. It may not be keyframeable but it is a real nuisance not being able to click it on and off.

I note that Section isn't keyframeable either, but it remains a tick-box (maybe I shouldn't have written that!).