@Scenestealer

Again thank you for your infinite wisdom 😲 as I was not aware. That would be very useful to me as I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to sync various bits of audio to match screen action.

I will have to look into VPX more closely as even setting up the correct amount of audio buffers fr a project in MEP Premium can sometimes be a bind. I think I have it all sorted and go to start a new project and find I have to start again with settings as the ones I have saved don't always work. I do like a lot of aspects of MEP Premium. Being able to slow and re-sample audio for both speed and pitch is handled well and I'm still learning how to do a lot I didn't even know was possible for a home editing setup it boggles my mind quite a bit.

Some things I have had problems with such as saving settings with names I can remember that have a meaning to the settings I used. Sometimes I've saved a project somewhere other than to the project folder although I don't know how I managed that. Sometimes a folder has lost an audio track and I have to re-do that section of the project.

I'm sure most if not all of the problems are user error. I had similar problems with early use of Cubase. I don't think I'm thick but sometimes my efforts prove me otherwise. 😇

@browj2@browj2

Hi to you both.

I think it was for Pro X although John EB may be right if that had a control wheel on it as I think that is what caught my eye.

@browj2

Hi

. . . . There is indeed a MEP Control available in Germany and I don't know where else . . . .

You are correct - I saw it this year and never noticed the word Control - 😱 😱 😱 - just the bright pink label saying it included a keyboard - I was more interested in the MIDI controller with Music Maker box.

It is only available in Germany and Austria, it has a German keyboard layout, ie it is a QWERTZ layout and includes the German umlaut characters and other special characters - takes some getting used to after using an international layout keyboard.

John EB

@johnebaker @CubeAce

And here are the 2 for Music Maker - Control and Performer:

About adjusting for music, whether or not you have MEP or VPX, it's still a chore. I'm trying to put music to a 25 minute video using Magix Soundpool loops in Samplitude Pro X3. The video is about 15 minutes too long, because I've only done 10 minutes in a couple of days. Then I'll have to go back to VPX and make some adjustments - cuts to the beat, fix the main audio, do some ducking, fix up stabilization, colour, transitions, etc.

And to top it off, I spent several hours trying to find where and what VPX didn't like - I experienced a couple of dozen crashes during export to mxv. There was a piece of an mxv file that it didn't like when I tried to export to mxv for dubbing. Export to MP4 worked fine. Finally got the export to mxv by replacing the short section with the original wmv. I ended up using the MP4 file for dubbing in Samplitude.

One more thing about VPX and Samplitude or Music Maker, they can be linked together, master-slave or slave-master, thus music can be added in the audio program and adjustments can be made in the video program. Playing back the master causes the slave to playback in sync. This is what Magix is referring to in the comparison chart when they mention that VPX has MIDI capability. You can't bring in a MIDI file or use virtual instruments, but you can link the two programs together using LoopBe1. This requires at least 2 screens and a better computer than mine for smooth playback. There are a couple of disadvantages: moving the playback marker in the master does not move the playback marker in the slave, at least I can't get it to without pressing on play; since the audio is not in VPX, I can't see the transients to cut to the beat.

John CB

@browj2

This is probably where I would have to make a decision about whether to cut clips to the music or try to fit music to the clips. I find the former easier to the latter but either way it's not that easy so I feel for you.

My method without knowing precisely what you are trying to achieve nor the constraints of content or length would be to produce a complete musical track or tracks where needed and then trim video to fit.

The only programs I've ever tried to sync together relied on midi clocks which was a long time ago and audio only.

I did manage to import a Magix MP4 into Cubase which has a really small video screen but easily copes with altering and adding tracks as needed to the audio which then can be re-exported into the existing video file.

The main advantages are I can use soft synths and plugins as well as import loops etc but trying to sync to a video screen that small is hard.

Still, it's a wonder anything like this can be done on a home system at all and I'm still in awe that anything remotely like this is possible.

I wish you luck with your endeavor.

Ray.

NB. I'm currently using an M Audio Midi Keyboard that also has rotary controls for assignable Midi control since my older Roland full sized 88 key keyboard stopped having support when Win 7 came out. It seems to work OK with the limited Magix Music Maker which I've suddenly realised I haven't either downloaded or activated. I'll have to see which it is.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I'm doing a video or our tour of Prince Edward County, Ontario, antique & junk shops and wineries, with friends. I was the designated driver. I have animated maps, GoPro footage from the car (the dialogue in the car was sometimes useful to put elsewhere), and photos. I'm simply using the Soundpool loops to go along with whatever was happening along the way, more or less. I'm keeping it fairly simple with a few chord progressions, and usually limited instruments - drums and bass, with some other instrument loops when I find one that fits. It's just a long process, much easier to just select songs as background. I have Sonicfire SmartSound, but with limited music available, so I haven't used any of that. A plugin for MEP/VPX for SmartSound would be nice. I have other sources, but I decided that this video would just have MusicMaker Soundpool loops and other sounds where appropriate.

MusicMaker is now free, but you don't get much. Always start with the free version as it's the same version for Plus and Premium. With Plus and Premium, you get access to features, presets, instruments and some Soundpools - no reinstallation of the program. All you do is activate using whatever activation codes that you have and then download and install from the Download Manager. If you have an older version of MusicMaker Plus or Premium, you can activate it in the new version, download and install whatever is made available. There is a limit to how far back this applies. Make sure that you have added in any old Soundpools to the Soundpools folder:

C:\Users\Public\Documents\MAGIX\Common\Soundpools

Definitely hook up the keyboard and look at what you have available in MM. Sometimes it helps to just add in your own music/sounds.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

I had the free version of Music Maker up and running with the keyboard in Win 7 out of interest. It supports and uses several of my VST soft synths including a few of the older Cubase ones. I am surprised at how cheap some of the Magix soft instruments are. The lack of tracks though is the main problem and there is no 5.1 surround output or coding, not that I use surround sound that much. It is possible to have Cubase set as the external editor in MEP though, so I've tended to use that more as I then get access to all of my soft synths and sound pools. Some of which no longer exist and have their own unique sounds. I'm just grateful that my old version of Cubase still seems to be working in Win 10 and that sound files in general haven't changed much in the past 15 years or so. It's one thing less I have to seem to have to upgrade as often.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

In both MusicMaker and Samplitude, the video window is moveable and resizable up to full-screen.

With the free version of MM, you only get 8 tracks, and VST is disabled. You can purchase More Tracks & Formats (99) and VST access in the Creative Suite from the Store. However, it is much more cost-effective to just purchase Plus or best, Premium and you get almost everything unlocked, plus your choice of instruments and Soundpools up to the quantity of credit coupons that you are given.

MM has Surround Sound capability.

In MEP, look at the Share button in the top menu. If you have MM installed, you'll see it under Dub movie.

See this old tutorial that I did showing how to use MM with MEP.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

I haven't got the free version of Music Maker installed at present but I'm sure when I ran it last VST was not disabled as I ran some of my Cubase vst's on it as well as X-Phrase. I was just limited to eight tracks and I don't remember there being a video window. I may download it again at some point but I'm happy using Cubase as I've had over a decade of using it.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Go to the Project Settings to set the number of tracks. If you see more than 8, great.

Take a look at my tutorial. It would be quite something if Magix allowed Cubase to do the same thing using the Share button - from MEP (automatic mixdown) to MM (or something else) and back. Note that VPX does not have the Share button, for some strange reason, and can't quite do the same thing. I would like a back and forth from VPX to Samplitude to VPX. I mentioned this to Magix, but it went nowhere. The return from Samplitude to VPX is broken and is on my bug list.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

Do you have Samplitude set to be the Audio editor in the VPX program settings, if Cubase is MX (Media eXchange) compatible it should be able to be used as the Audio editor.

I do not have Samplitude or Cubase, however I do have the Image editor set to PaintShop Pro X9 which is MX compatible and works fine.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

I have used Samplitude as the Audio editor in VPX, but using the Share feature in MEP (NA in VPX) for dubbing is not the same thing. Using Share Dubbing, and selecting one of the programs listed ( I have 3 Music Makers listed, the latest just being Music Maker), does a mixdown of whatever is on the timeline, opens Music Maker with the Video on track 1, audio on track 2, and you can add music in from there. When done in MM, mute the video audio, go to Share, Use as background music in..., and select the MEP version that is already open. The audio will be mixed down and added to the video in MEP (at the location of the playback marker). Take a look at my tutorial.

Using Samplitude from VPX as the External Audio Editor opens the mixed-down audio in the wave editor - 1 track, no video, no way to add music, just like in Music Editor 3. In the image below, I tried adding a loop from the Soundpools tab and it just added it as a tab for wave editing. The "Mix file" is what came from VPX.

John CB

For anyone interested.

I don't know if anyone bothers to try to set up their monitors for colour as some do for still photography processing but I've found one thing odd using Windows 10 and having to use the Intel graphics chip alongside my NVIDIA card that I've found trying to get both screens to give the same white balance and colour settings quite difficult.

The first thing of note is if you use the Intel Command center program to adjust the monitor connected to the Intel graphics port that the adjustments only work with Windows Media player and seems to have no effect on the Movies and TV application. Does Movies and TV have it's own adjustments squirreled away somewhere?

With stills it would be normal practice to use something like a ColorMunki Photo product to colour profile for both correction of the monitor and printing but what do you do for video? Where to begin?

I don't have high contrast 10 bit monitors so the best I can do at present within both the NVIDIA and Intel video settings is drag a video with perhaps a colour chart or plain colour background (varying the colours) and try to adjust until both look similar after first going through the normal monitor screen calibration for both monitors.

At present I can't think of doing it another way.

Also has anyone else noticed the problem with using the Graphics command center and the Movies and TV app?

@CubeAce

HI Ray

. . . . use the Intel graphics chip alongside my NVIDIA card that I've found trying to get both screens to give the same white balance and colour settings quite difficult. . . . .

There are several conditions which must be followed to achieve accurate colour balance between 2 monitors - both monitors should be:

1. the same make and model
2. connected to the same type of socket and cable, no adapters - ie both via VGA, DVI, HDMI or Displayport - no mixing
3. set to defaults before colour calibration and any 'visual' effects, if present in the monitor, to compensate for incident lighting colour turned off
4. calibrated monthly

Mixing connectors eg VGA with any other connector type the monitors are working in 2 different modes with their own 'colour spaces', VGA is analog and DVI etc (no adapters) are digital therefore it is very difficult to achieve an accurate colour balance.

As @Scenestealer has mentioned previously you may need a 'Headless Ghost' plug to activate the GPU if no monitor is connected.

. . . . with using the Graphics command center and the Movies and TV app . . . .

I have the GCC set to all defaults apart from the colour calibration set by the ColorMunki. Movie & TV and also the Photo Viewer are a PITA for me - they load slowly - this is a known issues - I use Windows Media Player exclusively for video files and Nero Blu-Ray player for DVD and BD ISO images or disks.

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker

Thanks for responding John.

1: Both identical monitors bought at the same time from the same batch.

2: using HDMI ports on both at both ends.

3: Always done that in the past for stills editing.

4: Same, but once every six weeks when using Win7. Still getting to grips with Win10.

I would add one more thing to your list. Angle of view should be the same and central to seating position and a reasonable distance from the seating position or you will see colour variation from center outwards of a monitor if sitting to close to it.

That was what I'd forgotten when I typed this last night. During all the upheaval of the build i didn't get my monitors realigned to my seating position. Took some time measuring and fettling monitor positions and the slightly yellow tint of the right monitor went away. (It was looking more like a printed page from a paperback book).

Both monitors are mounted to sturdy desk top swinging arms similar to lamps.

I didn't realise I could reuse a colour profile for photography for video. I'll give it a whirl but I thought there may be a standard for PAL or NTSC instead or is that done within MEP?

One thing I have noticed and will change in future is to use a flat colour profile on my cameras when videoing. I'm suffering some colour over-saturation in some filming circumstances.

I can't personally say I see a difference in load times between WMP and M&TV. Both seem pretty instant at my end.

I can't say both monitor outputs look identical but they are now much closer than they were. I've even managed to get WMP and M&TV looking the same.

I do wish there was something similar to Photoshop for checking the numerical value of a colour on screen from the mouse position on the image.

What brought all this about was a comment on YouTube talking about skin tones and I couldn't see what he was going on about. After a fraught evening last night going through everything in my settings again, starting from scratch, I revisited the video and the difference was night and day.

I will get these things right one day 🤓.

Thanks again John.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray.

I do wish there was something similar to Photoshop for checking the numerical value of a colour on screen from the mouse position on the image.

Are you aware of Pixie? I have it and it seems to do exactly what you are asking for.

HTH
Jeff

@emmrecs

Hi Jeff.

No I wasn't aware of Pixie. I will check it out. Thank you.

To be honest I haven't looked at much freeware or donation-ware over the last few years in general. Mainly because there was a period when most of it had spyware attached and it became a bit of a minefield trying to figure out what was safe to download and what wasn't.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Getting the numerical value readout is on my VPX wish list that I put on the forum but did not send to Magix (they have enough to do to fix the bugs that I sent them).

I don't know if Magix has added what you see below to MEP2020, but it's in VPX11. Some of the effects have a colour chart with colour picker (eye dropper). It gives a dynamic readout as you move the + (eye dropper) around. Unfortunately, the readout is from 0 to 1, but you can multiply by 255.

John CB

@browj2, @CubeAce

Hi John, Ray

MEP 2020 does have the colour picker shown above.

HTH

John EB

@browj2@browj2

Thanks John CB and John EB.

Indeed, I found such a colour picker in the New Blue Picker effects and while the numerical value itself doesn't matter that much is is it's position which isn't given within the frame so if I wanted to do an A:B comparison between the original footage and the processed it would be a little more difficult to do. I think it could still be useful though so thank you both.

Getting back to the audio for a moment. As I'm still awaiting my son to turn up at some unspecified time in the future, I decided to have a good read of the various hardware manuals and do a bit of updating myself as I clearly understand very little about that side of things and I had one instance of the PC not booting.

I found my bios was two updates behind and managed to update the system without bricking it after making copious notes on what to do beforehand. To my surprise the system is now much more responsive and as a result scrolling in MEP and the video to audio sync is now much more precise to the point where I can now edit to the beat visually. I'd guess almost, if not to, the frame. I can now grab a cut and move it back and forth without any freezing which I previously had from time to time. The whole of MEP in general is running much more as I would expect. There is no longer any lag between what I see on screen and the audio I hear. No stuttering of the audio at all.

It has been such an improvement I'm going to check manually all my various drivers for the latest updates, from disk controllers, to VGA and sound drivers as Windows and the Asus auto update programs is telling me everything is up to date when it clearly isn't.

Even if I can't do the changes as I find them, until I'm sure of how to do those things, I can make a list of those that may need doing.

I haven't checked yet whether the exports are now also faster but whether they are or not, at least the editing has become much easier and hence quicker. That in itself will make the project process much faster.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

"To my surprise the system is now much more responsive"

Surprise, surprise!

I think we discussed doing hardware related updates recently and someone mentioned "if it isn't broke don't fix it" or "never change a running system". 😖 As a service technician who has spent the last 45 years doing repairs and routine servicing on Professional Cine and Broadcast equipment I simply can not agree with this! Everything works until it stops, and usually at a time which is less than convenient, like in the middle of a multi million dollar shoot with hundreds of crew standing by, and by the time it stops your performance has often been compromised for some time preceding this.

You are trying to keep ahead of the game even though if not in such an extreme situation. You can see how many updates there have been already for your board, on the Asus site. Many of these are stability and performance fixes and contain Management Engine firmware fixes that include security updates. One of the updates on my Z170 board included a fix that stopped a Windows update from changing the power management away from a custom "performance" setting back to a lower one.

End of rant! Good to see you are getting some improvements to what seemed to me to be unusual behaviour with your new rig.

Best

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

I don't know about other people's ability when it comes to playing around with the basic functions of how a computers software, firmware, drivers, etc. interact with each other but I do understand the fear of getting it wrong and effectively bricking a working system, which is probably where the 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' mentality comes from. I certainly empathise with anyone who has those doubts when the instructions for a VGA driver asks you to uninstall the current one before loading the new one. What's keeping the screen going in between? 😧

Even when I updated the bios, instead of just rebooting it went straight into the bios again and asked to make sure that the drives were set to RAID configuration. No mention of which drives or where to find them. (I had stupidly left all my drives connected instead of just running it with just the boot drives.) To the uninitiated or those of a sensible nervous disposition of such things it's a Hobson's choice at that point. No real going back and hoping you don't alter the wrong part of the bios. Worse was the lack of any warning beforehand that this would happen.

Having said all that I have to agree with your point of view if only for the obvious advantage I've gained so far. In truth, changing these settings is easier than it once was but still daunting to someone like me who is not a complete technophobe. So I can only imagine someone just trying to get a program working and finding it maybe wanting from the promises made in the advertising to be somewhat short of the experience they had hoped for. Maybe not realising just how demanding such programs are on any system and it not just being down to the specs of the machine but how well it is put together and maintained.

What I find most surprising though is left to it's own devices Windows thinks everything is up to date as did the Asus update program. That that side of things is still not as automated for the average user to be confident about.

That if the person is confident that their system is running as it should and as up to date as it should be because the software is not reporting any need for updates, it is difficult to argue the opposite point with anyone.

My next job is to try to reconnect my aging DVD player/recorder via an interface card so I can reload Cubase from the disk. I updated the product key dongle with no trouble but so far, every time I've put the IDE interface card in and tried to connect the DVD recorder I've lost my NVIDA card's output to my second monitor. I know it works as my son used it initially when setting up the motherboard but for some reason (Possibly sorting out power leads or because we added the NVIDIA graphics card) it got disconnected again. I could try an IDE to SATA convertor but I think I will lose two of my SATA sockets when I put the the M.2 drives in and the other four SATA sockets are in use. I know the board I have works. It just may not be recognized yet by Win10 although the last time I tried it came up as a VGA device in the bios. Unfortunately there are no identifying marks on the card and I can't remember when I even got it. Windows never gave me a 'Device Ready' prompt though and once I lost a screen I immediately disconnected the card again rather than looked to see if the card came up as a device in the device manager so I could go that route next time first. I do have enough power leads to do this although my tower case innards is beginning to resemble a rats nest as I've realised the layout of the inside of the case is not perhaps as well laid out as a new one would be.

Still. Onward and upward. 😉

Ray.