@johnebaker

Thanks, John.

I have alway obtained the Pro versions of Windows. I was more concerned about the updates that seemed to give some people problems with MEP.

Thanks for the details on how to deal with Outlook.

I currently use 16 USB outputs for various devices and drives so yes I concur. Are you using an Intel motherboard? My current motherboard is ASUS but I have seen some interesting Intel ones.

I'm sure I'll understand the last half of your last line when I look at the specs more closely.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . Are you using an Intel motherboard? My current motherboard is ASUS but I have seen some interesting Intel ones . . . .

No, mine is a MSI, my second preferred MB maker, ASUS being third.

Gigabyte is my preferred MB maker, however I could not get a board at the right price quickly - my computer died and I needed it backup ASAP.

HTH

John EB

Hi John.

Interesting you should say that. I've been looking at the MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PLUS 1151 DDR4 ATX Motherboard. It's a reasonable price in the UK.

@CubeAce @johnebaker

I'm running an MSI MB also, actually the (now) rather older MSI Z170A PC MATE (MS-7971). Has proved an excellent purchase, so far.

Jeff

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PLUS . . . .

That is the MB I have.

John EB

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

My last 3 MB's have been Asus and no complaints there. I like their automatic overclock and fan control utility for a 0.5Ghz overclock (that is completely stable).

I will probably settle for a heatpipe heatsink.

I think that is all you need and is what I use and only manually kick the fan up to max if I am doing a long render. MEP/VPX do not do a lot on the CPU except when Mercalli is doing an analysis where it used to hit 100% but the new Infusion engine has reduced that to about 60% (and made it slower to analyse IMO!).

Peter

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

All my previous builds have used ASUS motherboards and I've never had a motherboard failure. Hence me getting behind on the tech as my present one has worked/is working flawlessly, but newer programs and external peripheral needs have meant a gradual but significant drop in speed and the ability to cope. My present M/B CPU setup was installed when Win 7 came out. Only upgrading the odd hard drive now and then, adding a Heatpipe heatsink and replacing failing PSU's, graphics cards, and optical drives from time to time. My original Intelimouse only packed up last year! 😃

Is MEPs new engine not using Nvidias' NVENC capabilities then but solely reliant on the Intel chip?

@johnebaker

Thanks, John. I'm on the right track then.

Hi,

it is less costly to buy a brand new computer then try to rebuild or remake one using old computer. A new computer comes with all parts compatible with Windows 10 and probably comes with Windows 10 professionnal version.

Regards,

YR

@CubeAce

Is MEPs new engine not using Nvidias' NVENC capabilities then but solely reliant on the Intel chip?

As far as I can tell the versions with the new engine will still use the NVENC chip (if available) for HWA H.265 export, which may be faster than using the iGPU (but may be worse quality??).

Edit: Just did a test and can not see GTX1060 or iGPU doing much of any HWA during export to H.265! Slow also so will need to do some investigation there...

Strangely there is an interview with a Magix person in the German magazine Video Aktiv where he discusses the 5.8x speed improvements (during playback) in VPX11 versus an earlier version and gives the specs of the test machine as an AMD Ryzen (which to my knowledge does not have an iGPU) with a discreet Nvidia GTX1060! Everything I have read about the new engine indicates that it relies on the iGPU for the improvements??

Edit: Just read the sales blurb and it does say - The new INFUSION Engine offers smooth playback of complex projects with multiple tracks. For CPUs with Intel QuickSync and NVIDIA GPUs.

Read more: https://www.magix.com/us/video-editor/video-pro-x/new-features/
Follow us: Google+ | Facebook

Beats me, but the Nvidia is doing quite a bit during playback of the TL with UHD clips with or without effects, with 30% utilization on top of 65% utilization on the HD530 GPU, so I would not rule out a discreet graphics card as well.

Peter

@yvon-robert

Hi YR.

Please find me a machine that costs less than £745 because that is the cost of everything I need to upgrade my current tower case to the specs I've indicated using the components I've listed including 16 gig of ram. Yes, Windows 10 Pro is an additional cost but that can be got for less than £20. Plus I doubt it will have room for the additional extra internal storage I currently enjoy.

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter.

I had read the spec section for the new version of MEP but I too am confused about what exactly does what.

I had read on the forums here I think, that using hardware acceleration produces a rougher looking final render if trying to use H265 at higher quality levels and is only useful for H265. Am I right in thinking that?

Personally, I've been happier using MP4 for quality so far and on my aging PC the render times have been quicker than trying to use H265.

I wouldn't know how to look for how what deals with which part of the program so I'm grateful for your additional info. Whatever, I think the upgrade will make an unbelievable difference to my render times and playback resolutions in realtime.

Hi,

I am agree that your solution cost much less than a brand new PC but for the average users is a better solution to buy a new computer. Probably you have a big tower with 2 or 3 fan cooling inside an old power supply see the new generation computer size: 6 x 6 x 2 inches size or 15 x 15 x 5 cm size. Big screen is better 32 inches 4k.

Regards,

YR

@yvon-robert

Hi YR.

I understand and appreciate that for a lot of people, buying a new PC may be a preferred option which I have no objection to, but building your own has benefits of a better choice of components at cheaper prices a well as a better understanding of resolving possible issues if things go wrong. Not forgetting how pleasing it is to build your own and configure it. My tower case is practically silent. It has seven whisper-quiet fans barely heard outside the modified ThermalTake XaserIII sound dampened case. It already has a newer generation silent 850w PSU and fast hard drives. That's the beauty of constantly upgrading as needed. As for monitors. I prefer two monitors of around 28" placed around 2 feet from my work position which is in the center of a large, solid teak surfaced, metal-framed, U shaped desk I built in the room when I soundproofed it. Everything I need is within seated or standing reach. If I do update my video monitors at some point they will have to be OLED or equivalent which will possibly involve needing new monitor calibration equipment as well. Nothing it seems is either easy or cheap. You have probably missed my earlier posts describing my workroom but it's a dedicated workspace originally centered around music production with a large Tannoy Reveal 5.1 surround system in an acoustically treated room. It now also serves for my photographic and video editing needs. I've had this room in my house now for over 33 years and it has been upgraded from originally using purely analog equipment to its present digital state but I still have my analog tape decks, mixers, amps and turntables working in here as well. It's my equivalent of the working man's garden shed 😉.

Hi,

I agree with you to build a new machine and saving parts from the old is a dreamy work and much less costly but the time you invest to remake is not on video production. Today we have to setup fast and produce video fast at competitive price not necessary cheaper price. We have about the same learning curve but actually i prefer to buy and use right away then learn how to build, check and use. Time has changed now we can see somebody using 3000$ camera or 1200$ iPhone to shot video without any knowledge only the auto mode and press button.

Regards,

YRî

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter. I think I found the interview you mentioned.

You will find it here but there is no mention of the machine used but does make reference to a video on YouTube where indeed a Ryzen based machine was used for a comparison of various companies video editing programs. That video showed Vegas as fastest for rendering H264 files. That video can be found

That worked a bit strangely 😕. The video doesn't seem to have any connection to the Magix development team though, so not sure if it is a machine used either for Magix software compiling for Magix or indeed has anything to do with Magix.

@yvon-robert

If you are talking from a professional viewpoint then I concur that it seems to make sense but things can go horribly wrong relying on automatic settings while trying to figure out new tech if the user can't be bothered to research a technologies shortcomings. I see that happen all the time and is nothing new. I wonder how much time or money is wasted on trial and error or because the wrong equipment is bought through not fully understanding functions or limitations?

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

Here is a google translation of the said article from Videoaktiv on line magazine where a Magix Product owner developer Florian Liepold discusses the Infusion Engine in MEP2020.

Q. The infusion engine should be up to 5.8x faster - in which process did you measure that or in which processes does the new infusion engine bring benefits?
A.The infusion engine is a radical remodeling of our import to support DirectX 11 textures. In simple terms, the way image data is stored and transported in the program has been fundamentally re-implemented.
The transfer of the decoded images in the subsequent processing chain is done on the shortest path, because they do not leave the memory of the graphics card and previous copying omitted. Decoding and processing merge, so to speak, for maximum throughput.
The greatest benefit comes in applications where many image data are moved. Multi-track projects, multicam editing, as well as the use of video-based templates, such as collages from the in-app store, benefit greatly.
Unlike in the past, we now use the graphics card for the import by default. That alone will give a noticeable boost to users who may not have known this attitude.
In addition, we have carried out targeted optimization in the area of ​​effects. Lookup tables are now calculated as multicore and SSE optimized. Horizon straightening is GPU-accelerated, and customizations to internal processing levels such as buffers and GPU uploads are dramatic in many situations. And all without compromising on the quality of the presentation in full 16-bit Deep Color color depth.
This is particularly noticeable in picture collages, for example. These use many effects in combination and were often not fluid playable. Now it's even possible to insert videos into collages and play them for the first time without preview rendering in real time.
A typical multitrack test project consists of a cascade of AVCHD or HEVC FullHD videos, which increase the utilization in a semi-transparent manner or as a picture-in-picture arrangement. In order to make it more realistic, the project also contains parts with only one video track but, for example, title overlays. It is about simulating different load situations that can occur in customer projects.
We now use an internal benchmark to measure the average frames per second across the project. The program shows the project as fast as possible. The test system for the speed factor consisted of an AMD Threadripper 1920X and NVidia GeForce GTX 1060 6GB. The test included Video Pro X (version 10) and a beta version of Video Pro X 11. It measured a jump from an average of 25 FPS to 147 FPS over a test project.

From what I understand from this and other info from Magix and my own observations is that for a multiple GPU system the program decides which GPU to use for which task. So for instance the decoding for playback of HEVC appears to be pushed to the main GPU part of the Nvidia card when the discreet card is selected in the Display Options, whereas H.264 is decoded only on the iGPU. When Display is set to use the iGPU it appears to do both H.265 and H.264 on the iGPU.

The new engine appears to be mainly about accelerated preview of the timeline and I think we should not expect any leaps in export encoding speeds

During the H.265 HW encoding for export, the program is supposed to automatically select the Nvidia card and use its' separate hardware Nvenc chip, whereas H.264 can only use the QuickSync hardware layer embedded in the iGpu of the Intel processors. If a discreet (Nvidia) card is not present the H.265 (HEVC) HWA export is accomplished on the iGPU.

"I had read on the forums here I think, that using hardware acceleration produces a rougher looking final render if trying to use H265 at higher quality levels and is only useful for H265. Am I right in thinking that?"

You are right in that hardware encoding by either the Nvenc chip or the Quicksync HW layer will produce a rougher export file as some optimisations of the encoding are left out at any quality level set, but this seems minimal to me and I am fairly critical. Besides HWA seems essential for H.265 because a SW render is so g..dam slow with this codec.

The good thing about this is that Magix are not concentrating all the improvements around the Intel processors giving users without iGPUs the benefits of improvements in playback and handling during the edit with the new Infusion engine, alongside the capability for HWA export of H.265 via Nvidia cards.

Peter

@Scenestealer

Thank you, Peter.

That is interesting and relevant to me as it seems it would be worth including a GPU, and the one mentioned is reasonably priced, unlike some cards meant mainly for gaming. Although I'm sure the more cores for playback the better, but noting it probably doesn't affect render times.

Also, the benefits seem to be focused around H265 and H264 and hardware support over software rendering.

This has given me even more to think about.

Thank you.

@Scenestealer

Hi Peter

Thanks from me as well, that justifies me putting a GTX 1060 into my PC for Blender work rather than using the old one and adding the GPU.

HEVC (H.265) is pretty quick on the UHD 630 iGPU - 13:54 for a 11:14:00 4K video with transitions, titles and stabilisation applied to some of the 4K clips. I expect it will be faster when I upgrade to SSD drives.

Cheers

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

I was always under the impression that a fast Hard drive was better than a fast SSD on all but for using on a C: drive. That something like a Western digital Black or Gold drive was better at multiple streaming of data files and longer lasting of multiple read/write processes.

Am I out of date with my information?

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

Although I'm sure the more cores for playback the better, but noting it probably doesn't affect render times.

I presume you mean by that, "2 heads are better than one", so yes 2 GPU's seem to be giving me a benefit for playback and probably to some degree for rendering seeing as the Intel GPU is showing saturation in some configurations of an export.

Bear in mind that if you are buying a new Nvidia card that it could be better to get the latest generation 1660 or 2060 as the Nvenc encoder has some improvements with the Turing chips, like HEVC with B frames and quality and efficiency increments.

@johnebaker

Hi John

HEVC (H.265) is pretty quick on the UHD 630 iGPU - 13:54 for a 11:14:00 4K video with transitions, titles and stabilisation applied to some of the 4K clips.

I am seeing about 1:1 for a similar timeline.

I expect it will be faster when I upgrade to SSD drives.

I am sure I have stated in past discussions that I can see no argument in terms of rendering or play back speed for using SSDs. The bottleneck is the CPU and graphics system speed of processing the data with compressed formats like AVC and HEVC. You only need to look at the disk utilisation in Task Manager during playback and rendering to see that there is only a smidgen of activity. Maybe if you were working with multi picture in pictures of uncompressed avi at 800mbps in the timeline but who does that around here? The improvements an SSD brings is mainly in project loading times and creation of waveform files or when extracting 5.1 tracks, plus general improved handling in the arranger.

Speaking of PinP which is one area that The new engine benefits: - I did a small test with a 5 clip (including 5 soundtracks) UHD PinP in VPX7 and in VPX1. The improvement is impressive in 11 - nearly smooth even at full res.

Peter

As for things I'd like to see in a future version of MEP would be to be able to import aac audio files into a project because any slow motion I do produces two separate files and I can't then use any audio from that clip.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . in a future version of MEP would be to be able to import aac audio files into a project . . . .

MEP does import/support .AAC audio files. However not if they are in a mp4 container with no video.

Do you get any message when you drag one to the timeline?

John EB