Hi John CB

. . . . Does anyone have the list of what was fixed in the above patch? . . . .

I have looked at the patch, however as you have found it does not give any indication of what has been fixed.  Not installed yet and can find no details of what the patch fixes.

There are a few posts in the German forum, however none are conclusive as to what the issue is.

One user has a totally unusable VPX, another has what could be a graphics card issue (AMD), and for another the patch works perfectly ( IIRC this user is using the Intel integrated graphics however I do not know which model).

John EB

Hi

I have not installed the patch as I had read the problems the German member were having and wanted to see if there was a resolution. The chap who has got the patch working without problems has a 5200U processor with HD5500 graphics but he also has a Geforce 840M in what is probably a laptop. The other member with the older Radeon card suspects the error message he gets that the card is not compatible, is that it does not support the bit depth of the feature and has found it works OK with the rather old HD4000 Intel graphics chip on his CPU. 

I did check the .98 version via the online update but but I found the same as you JohnCB - the more info window was blank. What's more a check of my account at support2 showed all my installed versions but the available patches were only for MEP16 and 17 (not 2016 & 2017)??

While there may be some patching in this new release I suspect the main reason is the first of the much vaunted "365 Upgrades" to 16bit colour processing. I think most of the footage we are working with is only 8bit although my camera says it can produce "XV Deep Colour" which may be 10 or 12bit, but I wonder that VPX can actually output this as more than 8bit MPEG4? This feature would be of interest to people using professional footage in say Prores format but I guess it would work with still Bitmaps.

With your problem in point 3) John CB - it sounds like the HDR problem I have with a new clean Win10 install and the integrated graphics see this post:- http://www.magix.info/uk/hdr-effect-does-not-work-with-mep2014-2016-or.forum.1161947.html

Did you use the HDR effect (on it's own) before you installed the patch? Also does it behave if you switch the Program Settings> Display > preview to "Compatibility mode" or just tick "Use DX9". Apart from that and adding a NB effect on the clip as described in that post, I have only been able to get this working properly with the recent addition of a Geforce GTX1060 to my system, and selecting that for the preview task.

Peter

I see a problem reported by a German member TOMFFM and a Mod, after the 15.0.2.72 patch where MP4 audio was running 10x speed, appears to have been rectified with the .98 update.

Peter

@browj2, I took the plunge, following your post, and checked for updates to VPX 365.  Indeed, there was one so I created a System Restore Point and then downloaded and installed the update.

I can confirm your first two error findings, but not the third,  For me, sliding the HDR fader above 0 results in the whole image becoming lighter,as you would expect.  

Is there any method, other than the Support Ticket system (which seems to have become even more "unreliable" recently, judging from the number of posters commenting that they are awaiting a reply to various questions) to alert MAGIX to these errors?  JohnEB or Scenestealer, as Mods here, do you have any method of drawing the developers attention to these matters?

Have not used the TRA recently so cannot comment on that problem.

Jeff

I cannot confirm if HDR was working before the update. I had done a short video on but no HDR used.

As soon as I move the slider , the dark areas get very dark. Sliding further has no effect.

I installed Pixelan FilmTouch and the resulting image started going strange, darker or sometimes colours went to one for part and grey (B&W) for the rest. But not always, so very strange. I just tried one and it had no impact on the image on the timeline. Added HDR, nothing. Re-opened FilmTouch and the images in it were all totally distorted. Oops, my image is now black. Premiew rendered and it came back.

Very strange.

I had also occasionally had a screen pop up telling me that the program was shutting off hardware acceleration due to drivers......  It did not do that before the update.

Hi John

As soon as I move the slider , the dark areas get very dark. Sliding further has no effect.

This is the exact problem I was reporting in the post I linked to. As you have found it can manifest as some weird effects. Try the things I suggested of which adding a New Blue Auto contrast effect and then resetting it to none (in the NB window) seems to be the best work around.

Preview rendered and it came back.

This is because the HDR fault is only with the preview of the timeline using the intel HD graphics under Windows 10. It is not present in a rendered file or if you preview the timeline using a discreet graphics card - Nvidia, AMD.

It is not caused by the patch but I will draw Support's attention to the fault with the German text in the English patch. They know about the HDR fault.

Peter

Hi

I have sent Magix with a list of issues which have cropped up in the last few weeks with MEP Premium, MMM Premium and VPX.

John EB

Hi

I have sent Magix with a list of issues which have cropped up in the last few weeks with MEP Premium, MMM Premium and VPX.

John EB

Thanks John.

I have also sent a link to this post to support.

A little more on the HDR problem - I am convinced that this problem only manifests on new installs of Win10 and not with systems that have been upgraded from an earlier version of Windows, hence the reason why not many people are experiencing it even though they only have an Intel GPU in their machines. My Surface Pro3 is an example of this in that it came with Win 8.1 initially and had no problems with the HDR effect. After performing the Win10 free upgrade it continues to preview the HDR effect normally. There must be something leftover from the earlier Windows version when taking the upgrade route, that is not in a new install of Win10.

Peter 

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your input and help on this.

I would have answered sooner but although I could connect to the internet and login, I couldn't reply for some reason. Changed hotels today and this connection seems to work much better. Five days to go here.

Thanks again. Let's hope that Magix gets these problems sorted out soon.

A little more on the HDR problem - I am convinced that this problem only manifests on new installs of Win10 and not with systems that have been upgraded from an earlier version of Windows, hence the reason why not many people are experiencing it even though they only have an Intel GPU in their machines. My Surface Pro3 is an example of this in that it came with Win 8.1 initially and had no problems with the HDR effect. After performing the Win10 free upgrade it continues to preview the HDR effect normally. There must be something leftover from the earlier Windows version when taking the upgrade route, that is not in a new install of Win10.

Peter 

 

Interesting idea!  My computer is a brand new self-build on to which I installed Win 7 Pro 64 bit and nothing else and then immediately did the free upgrade to Win 10 Pro 64 bit.  As I posted below, the HDR slider in VPX8 works without problem for me.  I don't know whether my set up supports or refutes Peter's idea!

I am not using the built-in Intel graphics, for reasons I posted elsewhere, but have an AMD Radeon R7 360 card.

Jeff

Hi

Hi John CB

I can confirm the following:

The German text asking you to select a photo or video object appears only in the Video effects and View/Animation and Audio effects options when an object is not selected.

The Video effects, Color dialog is in German.

HDR Gamma functions normally

I agree with Peter this would appear to be an issue with computers wth a vanilla Windows 10 installation and I am beginning to suspect that it may be a driver issue, ie a Windows 10 update has attempted to replace the graphics drivers and messed them up.

This was an issue for me a while back with MEP and I had to re-install the genuine Intel drivers.

Did you update your Surface Pro to the Windows 10 Anniversary update?

John EB

I am beginning to suspect that it may be a driver issue, ie a Windows 10 update has attempted to replace the graphics drivers and messed them up.

I am pretty sure this is not the case with my machine which had the HDR problem right from the start. It is a dedicated Magix workstation with virtually nothing else on it, not even AVirus apart from Windows defender, and similar spec to Jeff's apart from the fact that Win10 Pro was installed right from the start. The problem has endured through several graphics driver updates direct from Intel's site.

Because you have mentioned problems elsewhere, I have not installed the W10 Anniversary update on my workstation or my Surface Pro3 by selecting the "Delay updates" option that is available in W10 Pro.

Jeff

As I posted below, the HDR slider in VPX8 works without problem for me.  I don't know whether my set up supports or refutes Peter's idea!

If you select "Program Settings > display options> Preview in the arranger> Video Mode > Integrated Intel HD530 graphics" from the dropdown instead of Radeon R7 360, and restart the program, you will see the problem appear if you have the same situation as me. (NB If you can not select the Intel option then you may need to change the Bios settings to use the iGPU or/and just plug the Mobo GPU output into a monitor. Also, I get a different corruption of the image depending on whether I have the Default or Main Concept codec selected in the Import/Export tab of Program settings.)

I suspect you will not see the problem however owing to the fact you have upgraded from Win7, which supports my idea.

We need others who have a system that came new with Win10 installed to test this as described above - Terry.....! Hmm have not heard from Terry for a while....I hope all is well with him?

Peter

Gentlemen,

There is a new patch:

Changes in version 15.0.3.105:
* Fixed error that occurred when using 3D title templates
* Various errors fixed in the 16-bit video engine
* Error fixed in "Section" effect
* Small corrections to program interface and localization

Changes in version 15.0.3.98:
* NEW: Video export in ProRes format
* NEW: Precise color grading thanks to 16-bit deep color
  * Import for 10-bit AVC, HEVC and ProRes video material
  * Advanced video engine with internal 16-bit processing
  * ProRes export in 10-bit color depth

They at least got the German part removed, unless I missed some. I haven't checked much further.

However, the HDR problem persists. As you indicated Peter, putting something like a NewBlue or a Pixelan FilmTouch effect on an object, switching it off, allows HDR to work. Remove the third party effect and the HDR becomes corrupt. Very strange, but since this has obviously been reported to Magix many times, I find it strange that they are unable to fix it. I will raise a ticket just to tell them what they already know and to fix it. For me, HDR is important, Of course, once home, the problem will disappear when I get back on the desktop, I presume. Still....

My setting for Video Mode is: Standard mode (Direct 3D, hardware acceleration), Intel(R) HD Graphics 520.

I have W10 1607, which is the anniversary update.

The machine is new, so I assume that the drivers have to be up to date or very close.

TRA - haven't been able to test this as it hangs on OpenStreetmap.org, first with script errors on the page and then the hourglass (not an hourglass anymore) turns in circles until I kill it. Probably the bad connection where I am now. I'll try rebooting.

Hi All

JohnCB

Ralf at Magix support did come back with the news of the new patch and confirmed a few things:-

He noted the lack of info about the changes in .98 in the auto update on an installation at his end. I see it is displaying correctly in the new .105 patch. I still can not see any recent patches in my account though.

The language is covered by the listed "Small corrections to program interface and localization".

The TRA issue is being worked on.

The HDR gig which they acknowledged some time ago is being followed up. From his reply:-

There are known issues with some Intel graphics hardware and the HDR function, which we're working on. Not completely positive those symptoms match up with John's description of his symptoms, but there might very well be a connection here. I think that particular development task I'm thinking of is still open, but, naturally, John might even want to try this again after installing this new patch.

I like you have applied the .105 patch but no change to the behaviour. I will tell him that the "symptoms" differ depending on the codec selected in the Import / Export tab of the Program Settings, from very dark with the MC codec, to a weird contour map effect with the Intel codec on my machine.

I see he mentions "Some Intel graphics hardware" so it is possible that it may be just the HD5xxx series on your and my machine  that is the common denominator - My Surface Pro3 has a HD4xxx series chip....however Jeff has the same desktop Intel with HD530 as I do...?

I asked him about benefitting from the extra colour bit depth processing when exporting with AVCHD H264 codec but he confirmed the current codec would not allow it, however he said a future feature could make this available with export of H265 HEVC (which does support 10 bit - as referred to in the .98 patch). Certainly the ProRes export is working fine with Media info showing greater colour bit depth.

The machine is new, so I assume that the drivers have to be up to date or very close.

I would never assume that John.

Peter

Hi,

8C back home, 40C in the shade where I am, but it's a "dry" heat, very pleasant.

@Peter,

Thanks for the update. Point taken about the drivers. I should have said that they are at least relatively new, but then if they do have problems, updates come out, thus the need to update.

Based on your comment about the selection of Codec, I went a little further with testing. Under Import/Export, the Codecs are "Default." I am not at the export stage yet. Under Display, I had "Standard mode (Direct3D hardware acceleration)" and decided to try the other ones. HDR worked fine with both "Compatibility mode (Video for Windows)" and "Alternative mode 2 (Video Mixing Renderer9)."

After playing around with those to see if I could break them, I went back to Standard mode and there were no strange effects. I removed all effects from all objects and tried HDR on the first object, and it worked fine, just to annoy me.

With no effects on any objects, I saved the project, closed and re-opened VPX. In Standard mode, slightly touched HDR and got the following:

The source monitor is the upper left. Moving the HDR slider had no impact on the image.

I switched to Compatibility mode and the image was corrected and increasing HDR worked fine. Now HDR is at about half way. I switched to Alternative mode 2, no problem, same HDR effect. The I switched back to Standard mode and got a new result:

Interesting.

My conclusion is that there is a problem with "Standard mode (Direct3D hardware acceleration)."

However, I like the effects, but there is no way to make them properly. So maybe Magix can fix Standard mode but take a look at what has gone wrong and turn it into a new effect.

As for TRA, it is a strange one; it worked for several maps and then died. Has Magix seen this before? I thought of trying a repair.

Thanks,

Hi John

Based on your comment about the selection of Codec, I went a little further with testing. Under Import/Export, the Codecs are "Default." I am not at the export stage yet. Under Display, I had "Standard mode (Direct3D hardware acceleration)" and decided to try the other ones. HDR worked fine with both "Compatibility mode (Video for Windows)" and "Alternative mode 2 (Video Mixing Renderer9)."

This is what I would expect to see because this whole problem is only related to the HW acceleration of the effect in the preview. In the other 2 modes HWA is switched off.

I am not at the export stage yet.

Because this is a display corruption during Preview you should not see a problem after export, even after an HWA assisted render.

After playing around with those to see if I could break them, I went back to Standard mode and there were no strange effects.

Please be aware that when changing from / to a HWA preview mode,or when changing from the default to the MC codec, you need to restart the program 9 times out of 10 to enable and disable the mode / codec.

I need to say that the behaviour of the fault is not entirely consistent when testing but most of the time it is just a complete nuisance. Adding and "resetting to none"  a NB effect is probably the best work around next to adding another GPU, but this adds over head to the processing of the preview which can make your timeline stutter, as does using the non HWA display modes or switching to "Use DX9 only". Besides, the other modes disable your VPX measuring tools which rely on the GPU HWA and DX11. 

For the record, most of the time the Default codec produces the overall darkening effect you reported in your first post and the MC codec creates the effects in your latest screenshots (very reminiscent of the 1970's - I think I had a shirt like that!) on my machine. From your Scr.shots it looks like you are somewhere very nice....enjoy.

As for TRA, it is a strange one; it worked for several maps and then died. Has Magix seen this before? I thought of trying a repair.

As I mentioned, Magix are working on the TRA problem caused by "a change in the API of the external services they are using" so another patch soon I hope.

 Peter

Hi Peter,

I'm now Out of Africa, sitting in the LH lounge at the airport in Munich, with about an 8 hour stopover. Too far from Dresden.

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I finally did an export and noticed that part-way through, it slowed to less than 1 fps. It looked like it would take hours for a 15 minute video. First effort was to wmv, killed it. Second effort was to mxv, 720x480. Same problem. It starts fast and then hits a log jam.

The problem was at least one collage, so here are some things to try.

1. Collage 9 objects, 1st one on the list, causes VPX to crash, consistenly. I tried in a new project, after rebooting, only 9 or 10 images on the timeline.

2. So, I split it into 2 collages, one with 5 objects, the other 4. As far as I recall, the collages that I used were the first one for each of the 4 and 5 object collages. VPX had trouble making these in the middle of an existing movie (3 minutes in of 15), so I added a movie, created the 2 collages and then dragged the movie to the timeline  (nesting) from the Project folder (one of the uses of the Project folder) on a track below where I had the original images so the collage would hide the original images. This is where the export slowed down. Display options, Video mode - Compatibility mode. Exports are set to Main Concept.

3. I tried exporting only the movie with the 2 collages to mxv, 720x480. Cancelled at 9 minutes after going 24s5f of 39s01f.

4. Changed to Display mode - Standard mode, same problem, 5s5f after 1 minute, cancelled.

I think something is very wrong with these collages. Could you or someone else please check these on your side?

This was to be a quick and dirty video, but it's turned into a long, epic journey. I still have to add music.

More problems:

5. I have noticed that there is sometimes a gap of less than 1 frame between 2 objects. In this case, there is a small gap between the 2 collages of less than 1 frame and the last frame of the first collage (5obj) is white. Have you seen this before?

This happens elsewhere than on collages (I hardly ever use collages).

6. One of the hazards of using a laptop/Surface pro, is the Fn mode and using the F1-12 buttons vs Home, End, etc., and being in the wrong mode, plus using the wrong shortcut and not knowing what it did if anything. In my case, I lost the icons on most of the effects. Below is a screen shot of the collages; I used to have image icons. All effects that had images give me the same thing except Backgrounds, where the images show up. Everything under Image Objects is like below.

What did I do and how do I get out of it? Is this an ini file problem? I just answered my own question. I renamed the ini file and all of the images showed up. Annoyingly, I had not made a backup of it when it was working. Any idea as to what in the ini file needs to be corrected? Or is it a lost cause?

Thanks,

Hi John CB

I have tested the collages testing on PC and laptop - both i5's using integrated chipset and VPX patched to the latest..

To answer your points:

1.  No crashing on either machine.

2.  Export does slow down using collages - i have an issue with setting to MainConcept - no dialog options to change!!   Also see note 1 below.

3.  Exported to 720 x 576 MXV (standard over here) same length collage as yours, times are total to complete and also tried MEP as well - times are average of 3 runs   

4.    Not tested - see note 2 below

5.    No gap present at 25fps - is your framerate set to 29.97fps?

       Could  this be a result of the missing 0.03 of a frame for every second of video ?

6.    You can switch the having to use Fn button to access the F1 etc keys on/off
- press Fn + Caps to toggle on /off

INI file

I keep clean copies of each programs ini file after I install (or re-install).  If there is corruption in the ini file it may be before the section that relates to (in your case) the display of the icons.  These sections are labelled ExplorerV3_Tab0 (or 1,2 or 3) - the setting value for the View for . . . .  determines whether it is detail, list or icon view and has values of 1,2 or 3 (not necessarily in the same order). 

Notes:

1.  I have observed over the year,  that some collages always slow down considerably in most versions of MEP where the are multiple objects in the collage.

2.  After the large differences between the PC and laptop I suspected another issue I was having with all my MEP versions and VPX, after a Windows update a few days ago, may be clouding the findings.  I ended up doing a clean re-install of VPX and tested the same collage project again - very little difference in the export times.

Why the laptop times are much quicker is a mystery at this point.

OT - the Windows update has either changed some of my user account permissions or some security settings in the Registry have been changed - this has occurred on both the PC affecting MEP - 17 to 2016, VPX4 and 8 and MMM MX, 2015, 2016 and 2017 and has affected Paintshop Pro X7, on the laptop only MMM 2017 was affected.  Looks like I am in for a long haul re-install session

HTH

John EB

Hi John EB,

1. Works ok on my desktop, so the problem is with the Surface Pro.

2. and 3. Thanks for testing these. Now that I am home, I tried them out on the desktop and still had very long export times, about twice what you show. This was for an export of both the 5 and 4 object collages in one shot.

I certainly wouldn't want to have many of these in a project. That said, I don't really like them and will make my own, as I have done in the past.

I suppose that a quicker way would be to do them up in a separate project, export to mxv, and import the mxv to the main project, thus reducing rendering time and slow export times for the test exports and then the final export.

6. You lost me here. Fn toggles (and lights up) the top row. Fn+Caps just turns on Caps on the Surface Pro. Either way, one still has to remember which mode one is in.

Revisted TRA. It did not work in VPX8 before updating to the newest patch, and still does not after updating. However, it seems to work fine in MEP2016 Premium, so I am puzzled. I will raise this with Magix.

On the other hand, now that I'm back home and did not yet complete my video, I will likely use Vasco da Gama instead. Still, I do like the maps in TRA and using MEP 2016 is a workaround.

I am fortunate that I have not had any problems with Windows updates....yet.

I did have a scare as one of my external HD's did not show up. Must have been dirt or something because removing and replacing cables somehow got it working.

Thanks,

Hi

I have not had the time to do any testing but I notice a couple of the German members have had problems with crashes when the export tries to render the 9 and 4 collages, and have reported it to Magix.

I suppose that a quicker way would be to do them up in a separate project, export to mxv, and import the mxv to the main project, thus reducing rendering time and slow export times for the test exports and then the final export.

That is what I have done the few times I have used collages in the past although I have just exported to my final format/codec. It leads to a tidier timeline without stuff spread over multiple tracks and stuttering preview.

Preview rendering is not a great help here either as it needs to be redone with the slightest change upstream - although I think that by choosing a different format (HD) closer to your export requirements, in the preview rendering options, it will utilise those rendered sections in the export instead of lengthy re encoding so that could be one way to go.

Since the update I have observed a few crashes with fatal exceptions in the libmfxhw64.dll, on opening a new project and navigating the import tab in the media pool to select and import clips. I ditched that project and created another the same with a new name and all was well.

Peter

Hi John CB

. . . .collages . . . I don't really like them and will make my own, as I have done in the past. . . . .

I tend to do the same as I prefer something more unique and try not to use the same one twice.

. . . . Fn toggles (and lights up) the top row. Fn+Caps just turns on Caps on the Surface Pro . . . . 

See this article the Fn key works in 2 different ways depending on which keyboard you have.

. . . .  I did have a scare as one of my external HD's did not show up. . . . 

This could be thermal expansion/contraction working the USB plug out, especially if the room is not heated all the time and you experience large swings in temperature - used to be a common problem with the older RAM types in a computer requiring regular (often annually) reseating, rarely happens now because the memory is locked in.

HTH

John EB