@Former user

I think I may have found something and it's something I didn't include in the Medainfo as I thought it wasn't relevant..

Your audio format - ADPCM

My audio Format - PCM

@hwinter's audio format - PCM

I converted your 10jpg.mov file to PCM audio with my Quicktime Player and that played at 2.5x speed. Your 15:03 second file became 6:01 seconds when loaded into MS2023.

AndyW

My audio:

@me_again Ahha! yep I didn't look at that, I'm using Vegas to make that 10fps clip, (I didn't want MS to see what i was doing 🤫) it took a few renders to get PCM not ADPCM but eventually i got it, loaded into MS & this 15sec clip became 6seconds on the timeline, I got the change settings box on import, right size 1920x1080 wrong fps,

Here's my new PCM file https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OC37FHQ-VQBWtZffah_0Ua71_xpzpBiJ/view?usp=sharing

@Former user I'll look at that tomorrow

@me_again I've changed the size to 320x240, that doesn't make any difference to the speed but the Adjust movie to suit box doesn't pop up when dragging them,

It doesn't make any difference if the project is set to the right size & frame rate before importing.

& I've been going through the audio render options that are within Vegas, so far only IMA 4:1 (ADPCM) loads the file at it's correct length of 15secs, all the others so far load the clip at about 6secs,

@hwinter2, @CubeAce, @AAProds, @Former user

Hi everyone

I can confirm the issue of playing back a 10fps 320x240 at ~ 2.5 x normal speed is with the camera's video file Quicktime 'timing' quirk and the Infusion Engine previously mentioned.

I have tested this with Panasonic TZ1 (my wifes camera - had to wait for the battery to be charged 🙁) recording at VGA 10 fps (4:2:0) and QVGA 10 fps (4:2:2). with and without Quicktime installed.

As Ray suspected, importing both files into MMS 2023, with and without QT installed, MMS2023 has its own QT MOV file import module, the framerate is being interpreted as 25 fps - the 4:2:2 clip data is shown below.

Importing into MEP2016 with QT installed the videos were interpreted as 10 fps, with no QT installed neither file would load, this is as expected.

Unfortunately, I think the reason Gid's created MOV 10 fps file does not show this issue, is probably because it is correctly 'timed'.

John EB

 

Unfortunately, I think the reason Gid's created MOV 10 fps file does not show this issue, is probably because it is correctly 'timed'.

John EB

@johnebaker If I render that file with PCM audio, it loads as a 6sec clip & it does play speeded up at about 2.5x speed, If i render it out ADPCM audio (Gid's created MOV) it loads correctly at the orig 15secs & plays fine, & at no time with any file did MS change the project to 10fps when importing,

Greetings all,

I concur, glad you managed to confirm. Over to Magix then. (?)

AndyW

@Former user

Hi

. . . . file with PCM audio, . . . does play speeded up at about 2.5x speed, . . . ADPCM audio plays fine,

As I see it, this comes back to timing. PCM has a fixed time interval between samples representing the audio signal, ADPCM is variable with the difference between samples represents the audio signal.

What happens if you try this with a clip with no audio? This should confirm if it is an audio timing issue.

John EB

So installing QT with MMS 2023 has no impact on the video speed as I can confirm, I have tried that. I also had sent John an Email reply regarding the camera used, although inconclusive what model was used, it was definitely a Canon product. If a copy of the original video would be helpful to further this investigation, I will try to make it available.

@hwinter2

Hi.

Any video file clip supplied unaltered (hence the need to use Google drive or similar) helps, as it allows those of us who can be bothered to try out on our own systems. If none of us can get a good result then it virtually confirms a bug in the software rather than a hardware incompatibility problem. Then individuals can raise the point with Magix support to report it as a confirmed bug.

On problem with very early video files is that some manufacturers went off and did their own thing before standards were established and agreed upon. In which case a non standard format may not be considered a bug by developers.

Ray.

Here is the original video on Google Drive, I hope this link works.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Byxh8FUoXf-lp7pEQfGNioTeiyVZzyLL/view?usp=sharing

@hwinter2

Hi.

Yes the file was downloadable and Movie Edit Pro 2022 (My version) did recognise the file as 25 fps but if I clicked Ignore rather than Adjust, the file played correctly. Then it I right clicked the file for properties, ticked the interpolate frames box, and then manually adjusted the export to 25 fps everything ran within the program and exported at the correct playback speed. I will check with VPX 14 (MMS 2023 equivalent) later.

Exported data.

General
Complete name                            : D:\2023-03-24.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/avc1)
File size                                : 5.80 MiB
Duration                                 : 31 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 1 568 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-04-25 05:42:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-04-25 05:42:57

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=25
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 31 s 0 ms
Bit rate                                 : 1 377 kb/s
Width                                    : 320 pixels
Height                                   : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.717
Stream size                              : 5.09 MiB (88%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-04-25 05:42:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-04-25 05:42:57
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 30 s 955 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 188 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 709 KiB (12%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-04-25 05:42:57
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-04-25 05:42:57

Ray.

@hwinter2 @CubeAce @johnebaker @Former user

The video supplied by @hwinter2 does NOT load correctly in MS2023; the 30 second clip loads as 12 seconds whether the program is set to 10fps or 25 fps -

If "MPEG Import Module" is disabled in program settings / import/export the the vidfeo loads correctly but obviously without any audio -

This doesn't help the situation but it may give the Gurus further ideas; I think @johnebaker John EB hit the nail on the head when he wrote "As I see it, this comes back to timing. PCM has a fixed time interval between samples representing the audio signal, ADPCM is variable with the difference between samples represents the audio signal",

Conversion using copying of audio and video to MP4 or AVI seems to be the only way currently - strangely when I copy converted to MP4 the file would not load iinto MS2023 whereas as copying to AVI worked a treat.

AndyW

@CubeAce

Ray, but did you verify that MEP 2022 is interpreting the file incorrectly in the first place? It's all well and good manually changing settings but that's not the point.

The "Adjust" message when I opened it in MMS 2023:

Clearly, the 25fps is incorrect.

I did an export at 25fps (which is what MMS 2023 prefilled the export dialogue with) and the result was sped-up; file length around 12 seconds.

Unfortunately, I can't open the file in MEP 2021, "QT not installed" when it is.

So, as far as I can tell, the bug is confirmed in MMS 2023.

@hwinter2

Whether Magix will fix this remains to be seen, but in the meantime, AVIDemux is your workaround, saving as a Copy Copy "AVI" as suggested by @me_again.

I also note the PCM audio is at 8khz; the norm for video is 48khz. If the floor thinks it should be changed, you can do so easily in AVIDemux by selecting the Audio Output to PCM and on the Audio Filters screen, setting 48000hz in the resampling window.
 

@AAProds @hwinter2 @me_again @Former user

Hi Al.

That information was in the first line of my reply.

VPX 14 cannot import the file correctly regardless and cannot be adjusted as the sound and image goes out of sync or is lost completely. VPX 14 also refuses to have anything to do with adjusting the frame rate to 10fps regardless of the methods employed. Trying to correct the length by adjusting the sound results in a shortened sound track.

There is no way to adjust the project settings to 10 fps.

So this seems like a recent problem with the new program. (To me at least).

Ray.

@CubeAce

Ray, can you try disabling "MPEG Import Module" and see if it loads correctly in VPX 14 please - assuming it has the same or similar program settings as MS2023? This prevents the audio loading.

"MPEG Import Module" will automatically be re-activated when you reboot VPX14.

AndyW

@me_again

Hi Andy.

If you can give me instructions on how to do that I will try later today.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Greetings Ray, assuming that VPX 14 is the same as MS2023 (or at least very simillar) go to File / Settings / Program and in the file settings window open Import/Export and in the Import Formats box scroll down the MPEG Import Module and uncheck it - it will reactivate when VPX/MS is closed and reopened.

Do This BEFORE you load the video.

AndyW

edited for rubbish spellings, obviously not enought tea yet.

@me_again @AAProds @Former user @hwinter2 @johnebaker

Hi Andy.

Yes, that worked.

Ray.

@CubeAce Thanks Ray

So I think this confiems that the audio is dragging the video down - or up depending on your viewpoint.

AndyW

@me_again @AAProds @CubeAce

Hi,

VPX14 with the project default set to 29.97, the file came onto the timeline without problems and without asking to change the settings, but the duration was only 12s approx. Under Effects, Speed, the frame rate showed as 25fps. Knowing this was wrong, I simply changed it to 10fps and everything was fine - duration went to 31s.

I'll try it in MS2023 in a bit.

John CB

@browj2 @AAProds @me_again @johnebaker @hwinter2 @Former user

Hi John.

If you do that the sound file plays at half speed for the length of the video. Also the second half of the sound file is missing.

You should still be able to open the original file at the same time in another application to check this against.

In fact without disabling the "MPEG Import Module" as Andy suggested, only the first half of the audio file is present no matter how you try to import it.

Ray.