@CubeAce

Hello, Ray,

I first encountered this problem on 8 June 2020. At the time, I arrived at the mentioned solution by trial and error. As far as I have been able to ascertain, the forum member at the time also submitted this to Magix Support. What was done with it then is unknown to me. When I saw this message: "...The only thing I can get out of this is a 0 byte export file...". a light went on in my head.    

Yesterday and today, I was able to reproduce this error message and solve it in my own way. 
I did some small tests with different types of video clips (MOV, MP4 and MTS), and came to the conclusion that sometimes it does work. Why, is and remains a big mystery to me. But what I do know is that it has nothing to do with looking for an Intel GPU. See the specification of my PC.

Based on Dennis' answer, we might consider going to Magix Support with this. This is the famous needle in a haystack

Best wishes, Rob

@CubeAce

Hello Ray,

I see, that in Pro X13 there is no longer a checkbox that can be set at Video effects on GPU calculate. See image.

Best wishes, Rob

@Bol

Hi Rob.

Thank you for the clarification.

Do you feel that the main concept encoding is now too old to work effectively with newer nvidia cards then and that the problem is therefore there? I personally do not like the MainConcept encoder as there seem too many opportunities to set it up wrong and get zero byte exports whatever export format I choose.

I'm still not convinced the frame rates involved are not also part of the problem. Frame rates for video whether analog or digital have always started at 24fps and upwards. Only cine-film has used slower frame rates until recent times with variable frame rate and the use of H265 initially started with Apple. While in theory it should not matter we have often seen on the forum that if frame rates vary too much and too suddenly it is enough to trip a fault or crash.

As for varying file formats,I normally stick to MPEG-4 using H264. both for recording from cameras and exporting. I also try to stick to 50fps due to the nature of what I normally video, but in bad light may drop to 25fps. One or two programs I use only export to mov.but thankfully I don't have need of them much.

As for the VPX 13 image. Not sure what bearing that has here. I don't have VPX 13 to play with because at present it is too bug ridden for me to use let alone get any sort of feel as to what is happening within the program.

Although isn't the setting you are referring to within the advanced section of the export dialogue? That or it is in the setup menu where you can select which processor will do which task. Either way I think it is still there is some form or other.

Ray.

@Bol, @CubeAce

Hi Rob, Ray

The issue with the MC encoder producing 0 byte files has been known about for several years, the MC codec installed is 7 years old and the fix you applied is the one that was recommended.

I have tested the MC encoder with MEP 2021 - and with no hardware acceleration all AVC encoders, except Software, produce 0 byte files.

Additionally the Software encoding produces a 0 byte file or aborts the encoding when trying to export with a frame rate lower than 24 fps.

The MC codec does not support the h.265/HEVC format - the required dll files are missing.

OT:

VPX 13 does not need the Calculate video effects... option - I read somewhere that it is now automatic, if the GPU has the capability.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John EB,

Thanks for your explanation. Now I am also clear about the MC encoder (Main Concept). I found out by accident about the check mark. So the advice should then be, as long as you want to continue using the MC encoder. Uncheck "Calculate video effects on GPU".

Best wishes, Rob

Hi All

Been gone for awhile but am now back on this. Finally got the Main Concept working (thank you all). Finished up my 20fps clips and decided to run an encoder speed test. This is important for all you AMD CPU users out there. Using a simple 1280x720p 50 fps 3 minute clip exported to MP4 bit rate 6000 quality set to highest.

Standard Magix, (actually an Intel codec), With HW acceleration + 7m 03s (CPU usage 12% GPU usage 10%

Standard Magix, (actually an Intel codec), No HW acceleration + 7m 43s (CPU usage 14% GPU usage 0%

Main Concept codec, No HW acceleration + 3m 02s (CPU usage 45% GPU usage 0%

Just for fun I took the same setup over to VME17 where Vegas has implemented NVENC it took just under 30sec.

I saw no major difference in either quality or file size.

My system consists of a Ryzen 3900x (12 core + 12Threads), Nvidia GTX 1660ti, Memory 32GB 3200, reading and writing to NVME SSD.

Makes you wonder why (or maybe not😜) the Intel codec uses the AMD processor so poorly.

Dennis

@Dennis-Berry

Hi Dennis.

I am at a loss as to give you an explanation short of the codec is quite old and there is a newer one that for whatever reason (possibly cost as Main Concept do charge) that Magix has not implemented the use of the newer version. Magix has never been the fastest of NLEs but one of the most stable (at least in the past) if you look across the various forums. While Magix now own Vegas they are two different programs compiled by two independent software teams with both products presumably based on different base coding. Some of which may still belong to other companies and the intellectual property rights may be leased and not open to reverse engineering. Bits of software are often 'bolted together' to produce a finished product. Some of it freeware, some of it not. One thing is for certain, you won't get any company talking about why it can or can't do some things with its software. If you look at the MainConcept Website though you will find Vegas is mentioned as a user whereas Magix is not.

Ray.

@Dennis-Berry

No surprises there Dennis!

Standard Magix, (actually an Intel codec), With HW acceleration + 7m 03s (CPU usage 12% GPU usage 10%

Basically no HWA available as there is no Intel iGPU in your system and MSE18 is basically Movie Edit Pro which is not yet capable of using NVENC on the Nvidia or other discreet GPU.

Standard Magix, (actually an Intel codec), No HW acceleration + 7m 43s (CPU usage 14% GPU usage 0%

Main Concept codec, No HW acceleration + 3m 02s (CPU usage 45% GPU usage 0%.

Just what I have been banging on about for many years - the MC encoder is 2 1/2 times faster than the Default (Intel) for CPU only encoding, so should be mandatory for AMD users!

Also, on an Intel system HWA export is successful for AVCHD .mts material but you need to select Quick Sync encoder in the MP4 Export >Advanced > Advanced > encoder settings. Speed is similar to the Default encoder with HWA selected. All other encoder settings - Cuda - Auto, etc will fail with a message and all HWA .Mp4 exports will render a 0 byte file.

Makes you wonder why (or maybe not😜) the Intel codec uses the AMD processor so poorly.

No idea but it is not just AMD CPU's and quality is as good with either encoder.

Peter

@CubeAce @Bol @johnebaker

...for whatever reason (possibly cost as Main Concept do charge) that Magix has not implemented the use of the newer version.

Actually the do use MC behind the scenes for the Infusion engine in VPX to enable HWA on the Nvidia and AMD cards for H.265 and now H.264.

Peter

Not looking for an explanation for Magix behavior in this matter, the ball is in their court. They could easily download the free Nvidia NVENC SDK (which contains the necessary API's) and integrate it into their software. I don't know if this is true, but this could cause friction with Intel if Intel is providing free codecs. Intel is well known for its protective practices. Magix would then have to supply a software codec for other users.

Magix does use Nvidia CUDA bur this applies to rendering frames not encoding.

You see this sort of thing at Corel as well. They bought IVI who also owned Ulead at that time (2008). IVI was producing codecs for their earlier products so you now see the IVI encode files (as well as many Ulead dll's) in the Corel video editor. So they are in house and free. They to will not put NVENC into their product.

What does irk me is the obfuscation in the advertising they both use, as it pertains to HW acceleration and exactly what is and what is not being accelerated. You really have to dig deep to find these things out.

I do like the some of ME18 for some Fx so I guess I will continue to use it, when necessary, and export to MC MP4 then transcode it to h265 in Avidemux or HandBrake.

Dennis

@Dennis-Berry

To be fair there may be many explanations as to why developers go one way over another. I am also of the opinion that sometimes a secondary complimentary program can be of benefit for certain tasks.

I am appreciative that on my system at least if I am waiting for a long export I can pretty much run anything else I want without it effecting the export time as no single component is close to maxing out or crashing the export while it happens. The only limitation would seem to be not to open a second instance of the program to work on another project.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you settling into using the program. Happy editing.

Ray.

@Dennis-Berry

Hi

. . . . They could easily download the free Nvidia NVENC SDK (which contains the necessary API's) and integrate it into their software. . . .

That does not mean the codecs are free for distribution by software manufacturers, video codecs have licensing fees attached. The licencing fees for distributing the codecs with software can run into 100's of thousands of dollars per year.

John EB
Forum Moderator

I think you will find the NVENC codec is hard coded into the chip on the video card. When you buy the card you have the codec. All that is needed are the API's to talk to it. and there is no need for a software codec other than for use by others or those who choose to use it. I do realize that Magix still has to supply a software codec. My point is they do not have to pay to access the NVENC codec, the purchaser of the card has already paid for it.

Dennis

@Dennis-Berry

The use of the term codec (API in software programming field) is a more common expression generally when it comes to video encoding, much the same as the term CUDA for video encoding when what was actually meant was called NVCUVENC.

Either way codec/API has licensing fees, and in effect though the user pays for the feature in the graphics card, software companies have to license the means of using this feature of the graphics card chipset.

The same principle occurs in many audio chipsets that have surround sound built in, the APIs needed to use this are licensed and have to be paid for - see the Dolby vs Adobe case from 2018 which sent shockwaves through the industry.

John EB

OK just to put a cap on this license fee business. Here is the part of the Nvidia "License Agreement" for this SDK. This is simply to show that there are no fees involved in the usage of NVENC SDK and included API's.

NVIDIA VIDEO CODEC SDK LICENSE AGREEMENT (“Agreement”)

BY DOWNLOADING, INSTALLING OR USING THE SOFTWARE AND OTHER AVAILABLE MATERIALS, YOU (“LICENSEE”) AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT.  If Licensee does not agree to the terms and condition of this Agreement, THEN do not downLOAD, INSTALL OR USE the SOFTWARE AND MATERIALS.

The materials available for download to Licensees may include software in both sample source code ("Source Code") and object code ("Object Code") versions (collectively, the “Software”), documentation and other materials (collectively, these code and materials referred to herein as "Licensed Materials").  Except as expressly indicated herein, all terms and conditions of this Agreement apply to all of the Licensed Materials.

Except as expressly set forth herein, NVIDIA owns all of the Licensed Materials and makes them available to Licensee only under the terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement.

License:  Subject to Licensee’s compliance with the terms of this Agreement, NVIDIA grants to Licensee a nonexclusive, non-transferable, worldwide, royalty-free, fully paid-up license and right to install, use, reproduce, display, perform, modify the Source Code of the Software, and to prepare and have prepared derivative works thereof, and distribute the Software and derivative works thereof (in object code only) as integrated in Licensee software products solely for use with supported NVIDIA GPU hardware products as specified in the accompanying release notes.  The following terms apply to the Licensed Material:

I am fully aware of the need for fees on software developed by companies filling the needs of others.

Dennis