@Dennis-Berry

I take that back as I can't get it to export either as a small enough file or one that will play back.

If you want to experiment for yourself try altering the following first.

Then you should be able to get to this .

From there you may know what you are dong better than me.

Ray.

@Dennis-Berry Welcome to the heady world of Magix, Dennis. I do feel for you in your situation. Having your favourite program ripped out from under you would be incredibly disappointing.

I believe Movie Studio 18 is a rebadged Movie Edit Pro 2021. If that is the case, then you are in luck. With the "default" MPEG 4 encoder, I see the same thing as you: even if you change the movie setting frame rate and the export frame rate via the three-dots button, they don't stick and you only have the 4 presets available.

However, if you install the Main Concept MPEG 4 encoder (it costs a couple of bucks) then you have full control over the export framerate. There are more presets:

and any oddball frame rate you insert via the three-dots button will also stick (I tried 17fps).

IIRC, you can get access to the Main Concept encoder download via Help>Install Extra Content (I haven't done it for a while so am a bit hazy).

Some of the regular contributors/power users here have opinions on whether the default encoder is better than the MC encoder; the MC encoder has more options and I'm on the fence; in some situations eg slo-mo transitions the MC encvoder is better. In any case, the only hassle jumping between the two is that after setting the different encoder, you have to restart MEP.

Good luck and welcome to MS18/MEP.

@Dennis-Berry

Hi and welcome,

Why do you want to export to an odd-ball frame rate?

I have 8mm and Super8 filmed at 16 and 18 fps respectively, but scanned at 20 fps. I want my final result to be a standard 29.97 but with the correct speed. So, my project is set for 29.97m 1920x1080. The scans are obviously not 1920, but I usually have to crop them a bit. I want the height to be 1080, the width, whatever.

For speed, I select the clip, say an 8mm scan, go to Effects tab, Video Effects, Speed and the frame rate indicated is 20 fps. The program makes the adjustment automatically by duplicating images to make the adjustment to 29.97. However, the original was 16 fps, so I change 20 to 16, Enter, and voila, I will have a video that will export to 29.97 fps, a standard frame rate, and look slightly better than the original 16 fps and has the correct speed. As well, under Speed, you can check "Interpolate intermediate images" and you may get an even better, smoother result.

Now I am free to mix old with new in the same project.

John CB

@AAProds @browj2 @Dennis-Berry

Hi Al.

Did you actually try to do an export with any of the frame rates?

Every time I tried with mp4 the result was the same. A file with zero bytes.

With avi the file was so huge it refused to play and was still reported as a not supported file format. Even in VLC media player.

Hi Dennis.

I am with John on this one. I see no potential benefit in exporting in a non standard video frame rate unless you have a specific reason to do so. Lower frame rates are going to look odd when played back on higher refresh rate monitors if you can get them to play.

Ray.

@CubeAce @Dennis-Berry @browj2

Did you actually try to do an export with any of the frame rates?

Gday Ray, I did, at 17FPS (MC encoder).

General
Complete name                            : H:\Magix Info\Frame Rate test 17.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 7.52 MiB
Duration                                 : 9 s 664 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 6 527 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-08-02 02:18:40
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-08-02 02:18:40

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Main@L3
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 9 s 647 ms
Bit rate                                 : 6 375 kb/s
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 17.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL

I would only try AVI with HUFFYUV or Lagarith; with uncompressed AVI you're on a hiding to nowhere. I do actually use LAGS often for short Youtube or Facebook videos. Lossless from the timeline. Approx 450mb per minute (SD).

@AAProds

Thanks for that Al.

Just goes to show the difference between those who know how to use the Main Concept codec to those that don't.

I'm definitely in the latter group 😉😆

Now I'm curious as to why anyone would want to do it.

Ray.

@Dennis-Berry @AAProds @browj2

Hi Al.

Just out of curiosity I did try again armed with your new information. I was not too involved in the quality settings, I just wanted to produce a working video.

Without altering any of my program settings other than changing to the main concept codec as I had before (shown below) I tried again

but instead I used my normal working program setup

.

Subsequently my avi export box had only these choices

So I wasn't sure what would happen after selecting frame rate and video dimensions.

Success! All be it a horrible looking video, the concept works.

With no crashing of the program on exiting. Thank you Al. 👍👍👍.

MediaInfo file showed following.

General
Complete name                            : I:\Magix 2021\Trying to get smoother playback in MEP.avi
Format                                   : AVI
Format/Info                              : Audio Video Interleave
File size                                : 30.3 MiB
Duration                                 : 12 s 650 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 20.1 Mb/s

Video
ID                                       : 0
Format                                   : YUV
Codec ID                                 : IYUV
Codec ID/Info                            : Intel Indeo iYUV 4:2:0
Duration                                 : 12 s 650 ms
Bit rate                                 : 18.4 Mb/s
Width                                    : 320 pixels
Height                                   : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 20.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 12.000
Stream size                              : 27.8 MiB (92%)

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Little / Signed
Codec ID                                 : 1
Duration                                 : 12 s 650 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 411.2 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 2.13 MiB (7%)
Alignment                                : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration                     : 50  ms (1.00 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration             : 400  ms

I've learned something new I may never need again 😉

I can still only export avi files and not mp4.

One thing I have noticed. It takes several seconds longer for the export to begin.

Ray.

@CubeAce Ray, 30mb for 12sec of 320x240. Don't ya love it! 😵

@AAProds

I can't say I understand any more of the process than when I started Al. All I know is I got something to work I previously couldn't but don't understand why it worked or how. 😂

Ray.

@CubeAce Sorry, not having a go at you, just commenting on the size of AVIs. 👍

@AAProds

Didn't think you were having a go. I'm just bewildered with the main concept codec settings in general.

I think I wasn't around early enough to get into them.

At least I now understand why they are still an option.

Ray.

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

IIRC - 'the more B's the better'. 😂

@CubeAce

John EB

@johnebaker Correct! To a point... 😂👍

Thank you all for jumping in on this problem.

Added the Main Concept codec (free by the way) and this did provide for several added frame rates including 20fps. However all I can get from this is a 0 byte export file. You can view the processing in the creating movie popup. I can see the Task Manager load on my CPU, (Ryzen 3900x), at about 40% and using 18 threads solidly. Also see processing on my GPU (gtx1660ti) at about 27%. Also see SSD drive reads but never any writes. I have tried different settings on the codec but have not found one that works.

Does anyone have any ideas.

Thank you

@Dennis-Berry @AAProds @johnebaker @browj2

Hi Denis.

Did you try to change the settings as shown in my first image of my second reply and use the avi codec for export? Sometimes a bit of experimentation is called for.

The problem I have found with the main concept codec (and why I have never really used it) is there are very few settings that work and thousands of combinations that end in zero byte files. AApods will be the person that will probably be able to help most with this if my solution doesn't work for you.

Al should turn up in the next few hours.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

I should have mentioned, in my last comment, that I have found and read the previous threads here on this very problem. I have tried all solutions that appeared to help some people but with no luck so far. I am simply tired of wasting my time fishing for some arcane way of slipping an export through this very poorly crafted export process. I still have my VMS17 and an older copy of PowerDirector neither of which has any problem allowing me to set my parameters using my GPU for rendering and encoding. I think it has been shown, (from the previous threads) that Magix is not particularly interested in spending any time on this.

Again thank you very much for your help.

Dennis

@Dennis-Berry

Hi,

I repeat my question: Why do you want to export to an odd-ball frame rate?

And another question, what is the format of the source videos, avi, mov, wmv, mp4, other (what)?

The whole idea is to edit everything and export to a normal standard. The export process is crafted to work, normally, not abnormally. Just because you can do something does not mean that you should.

Try exporting to wmv which has more frame rate choices, or avi which has even more choices.

John CB

@Dennis-Berry

Hi Dennis.

I do sympathise and understand a connection with being able to use a software product as one gets accustomed to it and its abilities. I hate upgrading anything unless I have to as there are inevitable changes that one doesn't always want. I also use a very old copy of an audio editing suite just because I'm used to it and it still works for now. It may not though when Windows 10 comes to an end as Windows 11 will be completely 64 bit.

. I also use VMS 16 now and then for different reasons to using VPX and MEP and I am now used to bouncing from one to another. There will come a time though when either I will have to have a dedicated machine running an old operating system to keep my older programs going or reluctantly find something else.

I wish I understood the need for you to keep the original frame rates though because you run the risk of them eventually being obsolete if future operating systems refuse to play the files. Some photographic raw files can not now be decoded without the software they used which in turn doesn't currently run on modern systems.

Either way, I respect your viewpoint and wish you less hassle in future endeavors.

Ray.

@Dennis-Berry

Hi

. . . . I am simply tired of wasting my time fishing for some arcane way of slipping an export through this very poorly crafted export process . . . .

The problem is not the export process - it is the framerate that you are 'wanting' that is the issue.

The video standard lowest framerate is 24 fps, dropping to 15 - 20 fps becomes noticeable as flickering, this can in some instances induce a medical episode in viewers who are sensitive this - this is something you should be aware of if others are viewing your videos.

If you intend to upload to Youtube, Vimeo etc then the video is going to be re-encoded again to a standard framerate and potentially lower resolution - as low as 240p (426x240) depending on the viewers Internet connection.

As @browj2 has commented there is no need to go below 24 fps, the program will interpolate the 'missing frames' on export.

. . . . Main Concept codec . . . However all I can get from this is a 0 byte export file . . . .

This is a known issue with the MainConcept encoder, which is old, and hardware acceleration, there is no need to use this encoder when using standard frame rates.

John EB
Forum Moderator

Let me make some things clear.

I do not create or produce video for sharing in any way, "standard" video framerates as well as Frame sizes mean nothing to what I am doing. I have a large number of old digital clips produced by me from the beginnings of digital video. They encompass a.wide range of non standard framerates and frame sizes. They will be edited with video effects to enhance frame image, then exported to h265, in their original frame rate and frame size for space saving and archiving. Then they are up-scaled using Topaz Video Enhance AI. Next, (if I choose), the frame rate will be doubled using Flowframes. This will allow fairly good results up to about 720p, (depends on source material), for viewing from my local network server.

As I am sure you know, the h264 and h265 codecs will produce any framerate and frame size they are set to, there is no restriction on this. It is up to the developers to allow this input to the codec.

The bottom line is, I am using this product in an uncommon way and by Magix removing the ability to do custom settings (which are available in VME17) they have sold me a downgraded rather than upgraded or even parallel product and then refused to return my payment.

Thanks to all who tried to help.

Dennis

@Dennis-Berry

Hello Dennis,

...However all I can get from this is a 0 byte export file....

I have also the experience of this.

Uncheck "Calculate video effects on GPU".

Try it again.

Good luck, Rob

@Bol @Dennis-Berry

Don't tell me.

Dennis is running an AMD based system!

Ray.