@Beardeboss

Hi

The only thing I am missing is to be able to use my Black Magic Intensity Pro as a Video Monitor Out which I understand is only available with Video Pro X.

I am not entirely sure what configuration you have with your TV and what the Black Magic Intensity Pro gives you in addition, but Movie Edit Pro has a monitor output function that will send a full res. preview image of the timeline to an HDMI attached monitor or recorder. This function is activated in Program settings > Display Tab > Output to device with a tick in the box.

Peter

I guess that I am just double checking before I start any trimming since if I am correct then I will be able delete the original capture files once they are trimmed and tided up.

@Beardeboss

Hi,

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you delete the original files then you will have nothing on the timeline. MEP will ask you where they are the next time that you open the project; if you've deleted them, then you can't tell MEP where to find them. MEP uses the files; nothing is in the program except instructions as to what to do - like cutting and trimming. It does not contain the video itself.

If your intention is to export trimmed clips to an intermediate and use that for editing, I can't see why. Each generation loses some quality and trimming adds nothing. I only make intermediates if I have applied Neat Video and possibly Mercalli stabilization because NV slows down the editing process immensely and makes previewing next to impossible. Otherwise, I work with the original files.

Under Support, follow through to the end. Always scroll to the bottom of the screen to see the part about asking Magix a question, until you get to the actual page where you fill in the form. I don't know why people have such a hard time doing this.

John CB

@browj2 John, as I explained on the other thread, he's smart-rendering DV-AVI. There will be no quality loss. And what trimming does is get rid of all the junk in each file, saving disk space.

"trim and cut up the different parts and tidy it up before bringing back into the main time line."

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn.

Won't that "trimming and cutting" actually prevent smart rendering?

My understanding is that SR can function only with totally unchanged/unedited/untrimmed footage. Or am I completely wrong (quite likely)?

Jeff

@Beardeboss @emmrecs

In VirtualDub for example you can do framebyframe editing, and use option smart rendering with fast recompress. That will recompress only the frames around the edited parts. But, you are required to select the same codec that was used for compression of the .AVI manually.

Forum Moderator 

@emmrecs

The issue of Smart Render and Smart Copy have been discussed in depth previously.

Smart Render - only those parts of the movie that were changed in the program (e.g. by video cleaning or effects) are re-encoded - works for MPEG and AVCHD.

Smart Copy is part of the Smart Render and enables video with hard cuts to be transferred without having to encode it - works for AVCHD only.

Both are very finnicky and are not guaranteed to work every time.

John EB

@emmrecs @PATIENT-X @Beardeboss

My understanding is that SR can function only with totally unchanged/unedited/untrimmed footage. Or am I completely wrong (quite likely)?

You are Jeff (as suspected). There are two possibilities with H.264 encoding Smart Render and Smart copy - both will allow editing in the form of cuts and trims providing the output settings match the original footage format.

SR allows a mixture of changed clips ie with effects etc., and trimmmed / cut unchanged clips where it renders the changed clips but SR the unchanged edited clips.

SC allows cuts and trims and copies the clips without rendering but the cuts are not frame accurate and are adjusted to the keyframe (ie.GOP boundaries) in the exported footage.

DV-AVI is a special case in that there is no GOP being an Intra Frame Codec with a KF every frame as @Beardeboss mentioned, so it basically Smart Copies but frame accurate to your cuts, if the option to SR is selected in the DV-AVI export dialogue.

Peter

Edit: @johnebaker 's response came thru while I was composing my response.

@emmrecs @Beardeboss

Jeff, I just did a test export of a DV-AVI file/clips with Smart Rendering set.

The first export was of a 5 minute range with 5 straight cuts. Export time was 3min 10sec.

The second export was of exactly the same range but with no cuts. Export time was 3min 25sec (yes, longer).

The third export of the same range had a 2min fade at the start:

The render speed for the first two or so minutes was 16FPS and the render speed for the last 2 minutes was 35FPS.

I think it is safe to say that SR of DV-AVI doesn't occur only when encoding "changes" the clip, such as transitions/fades or effects. If clips haven't been changed in any way, then they will all Smart-Render, with no extra time used for the straight cuts between them.

Now we're back on the original thread, here are the different rendering times for SR on and off:

You can smart-render both DV-AVI Types 1 and 2. On my system, the rendering speeds are (roughly match the speeds above):

Smart Render off: 19 frames per second;

Smart Render On: 38 frames per second

So, Bearded One, cut up your DV-AVIs as much as you want and then Smart-Render them out to your heart's content. 👍

PS: Before you delete your originals, just double check the trimmed ones are OK!

Cheers, Al

@AAProds @Beardeboss @emmrecs

Hi Alwyn

I just tested with 2 x DV-AVI clips 25fps with several cuts and a fade included and it rendered to DV-AVI (all activity on the CPU ie noHWA):-

SR off = 50fps

SR on = 150fps

But wait there's more - Media info showed that it rendered to DVCPRO HD codec at a higher bits / ( pixel x frame) than the original and with 4:2:2 Colour Sampling instead of original 4:2:0!

Now that is SMART! (didn't expect that!).

Peter

@Scenestealer @emmrecs @Beardeboss

150FPS! I have just got a severe case of CPU envy! 😂

If only MEP would always smart-render MPEG 2 and 4 using the default encoders...

@Scenestealer @johnebaker @browj2

Can I ask how you all get these fps readings?

And for some reason I can't include AAProds for this question.

Ray.

@CubeAce Longhand, Ray. Time/length of video (in frames) divided by seconds (or in my case hours!) of render time. You have to be watching your screen as the export finishes to log the time taken.

Thanks Alwyn.

I was afraid that may be the answer. Great for frame rates of 29.94fps 😅. I would think you would need to add the variable bit rates and screen resolutions as well for good comparisons and maybe even the codecs in use.

What is the highest resolution and frame rate you use?

I still have no way to add you in a reply on this thread. That seems to happen randomly recently.

Looking at the date Created and modified times of an exported file should give you the amount of export time taken.

Ray.

@CubeAce, @AAProds

Hi Ray

. . . . You have to be watching your screen as the export finishes to log the time taken. . . .

This can be a few seconds out if the export is short, if you miss the end time, look at the properties of the file and note the Created time - when the file is first created and the Modified time - the time the file is closed and subtract the first from the last to get the time - the frame count is as Alwyn has commented

Note: this only works if the file has never been created - overwriting an existing file still has the original Creation time.

John EB

@johnebaker @Scenestealer

(still no AAProds)

Hi John.

I think if you delete the first exported file before exporting again, the times are correct as you are not asked if you wish to overwrite the existing file.

When an export finishes. If it is very fast it can be hard to see the final time and when an export is extremely slow it freezes before closing so I agree it is not always the best way to check the export time although for a longer project probably doesn't make that much difference.

Ray.

@CubeAce Ray, I have contemplated videoing the export screen to see what the export time was.

Whoever came up with 25 frames per sec was a pretty smart cookie, methinks. Isn't it 29.97? 😉 or 59.94, you couldn't make this stuff up! "What were they thinking?".

Slow exports - the story of my life!

Comparison of export frame rates between different machines/codecs/bitrates are rudimentary at best, but for the purposes of analysing smart rendering where the exports are exactly the same, it is adequate.

MEP could take a few leaves out of Videoredo's book: at the end it's export, the export summary box provides all the info: export frame rate, file size, number of frames, and average bitrate. Handy. It also SRs every MPEG 4 and MPEG 2 you give it!

Hi Alwyn.

I think the odd frame rates were due to the analog technology of the time and trying to avoid clashing screen refresh rates (or divisions of frame rates) and causing a strobing or flickering effect on a TV screen of the time.

As most of my projects rarely get a constant frame rate or the same length of sections that convert at the same rate of progress I find it less useful as a guide. I tend to accept whatever the export time is. There is often nothing I can do to help it along any faster although there seem to be a lot more ways of slowing it down 😉.

Ray.

@CubeAce @Scenestealer @johnebaker @emmrecs @AAProds

I am just sitting back eating a packet of crisps, enjoying the informative expert comments from you guys.

Have a nice weekend 😁👍🍻

Forum Moderator 

@CubeAce, @AAProds

HI

. . . . I think the odd frame rates were due to the analog technology of the time and trying to avoid clashing screen refresh rates (or divisions of frame rates) and causing a strobing or flickering effect on a TV screen of the time. . . . .

The framerates of 25 fps (PAL) and 30fps (NTSC) were derived from the mains frequency of the appropriate areas where the TV standards were used as is was an easy source of 'clock signal' as the mains frequency is maintained to a high enough standard for this use. Do bear in mind TV was Interlaced and composed of 50 or 60 fields per second, 2 fields per frame hence the 25 and 30 fps we are familiar with.

NTSC changed to 29.97fps to accommodate the colour signal when colour TV arrived, PAL did not have to do this.

John EB

@AAProds

Hi Al,

NTSC = Not The Smartest Choice

of course, designed by committee:

NTSC = National Television Systems Committee

See this

for an explanation as to how it came about.

John CB

@browj2

Hi

. . . . NTSC = Not The Smartest Choice . . . .

Funny - I knew this as' Never The Same Colour' due to pronounced colour drift in the early days of colour TV - PAL (Phase Alternating Line) never suffered from this.

John EB

@browj2 What a great video.

I liked the comment "Great explanation. Me and my 2.97 friends thoroughly enjoyed it." 😀