@Former user
Hi Gid.
I think if you check your motherboard specs it will possibly handle higher ram speeds. I have after, looking around, found it is mainly processor generational changes that allow higher ram frequencies to be used in a system. I also just about know enough to be dangerous 😆 and think cache latency and timing of the ram may also be at play here but don't totally know how that effects things.
Yes and the only collage so far that has had such a drastic effect within MEP 2022. It worked well enough in MEP 2020. Slightly more laggy in 2021 and finally not reproduced accurately at all on playback within MEP in 2022 (re-rendered or not) although I have finally got it to export OK.
I'm re-running my 'Dallas' years 😂😂😂.
Ray.
I checked after i bought those ram sticks & contacted Asus, they basically told me no & other stuff that i didn't fully understand,
on the motherboard page under 'Size' it only has 2 listings at 2666 for 8x32GB, but i don't fully understand 'Socket Support'
The ones i bought aren't listed at all 🤦♂️🤣🤣🤷♂️🙃👴🏃♂️🥴🤔
@Former user
Hi Gid.
A 'socket' is the place the CPU fits into. A lot of boards will only accommodate a couple or more processors from one or sometimes more generations of processors, because the CPU size and pin layout can vary a lot from one processor to another. I'm not as up on AMD processors as Intel ones but I would think it is a very similar situation. Of course boards do have upper limits on the speed of the ram they can support but often that is higher than the limit the CPU can handle.
Ray.
@Former user
Hi
. . . . Ram hmm I've £900 of 3200 ram sitting next to me, i bought it but didn't check the specs properly of my motherboard, it doesn't work, . . . .
At the price of £112.50 per stick that suggests this is a generic 3200 RAM - is the RAM one of the approved types for the motherboard from the approved vendors (manufacturer?)?
According to ASUS the board can handle 3200 RAM.
John EB
@CubeAce Thanks 👍 CPU is under another tab tho 🤔🧐
@johnebaker 😁 That's exactly what i thought & almost exactly the same pic i posted here, https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/small-project-failing-to-render-past-26-bug-report-project-included--132745/?page=3#ca828312
but no not in the motherboard list
Kingston FURY Beast 32GB (1x 32GB) 3200MHz DDR4 https://www.cclonline.com/product/355332/KF432C16BB/32/Desktop-Memory/Kingston-FURY-Beast-32GB-DDR4-Desktop-Memory-1-x-32GB-3200MHz-PC4-25600-CL16-1-35V-Black/RAM4915/
@Former user @johnebaker
Hi Gid.
Ram that is not on a manufacturers approved list just means they have not tested it. That happens a lot or they have technical deals with some manufacturers and not others.
That does not necessarily mean it will be detrimental in use and recent tests by some independent testers have concluded that even mixing makes of the most popular ram, even of different speeds and timings, will not result in more crashes than usual on more recent motherboards (unless you are trying to overclock) although there could be performance issues with under preforming speed results.
I really got into looking this stuff up after buying faster ram that I realised I could use, to try to find the cause.
Ray.
@Former user
Hi
The reason why the Kingston RAM is running at 2666 is due to what is known as the Timing Latency the number of clock cycles needed to access the data from a specific address - in theory the lower the value the faster the RAM can be accessed, however in practice this is more complicated- that's a cop out for me (😁) RAM latency is a complex subject especially when it comes to multichannel memory.
The Kingston RAM specs quote a Latency timing (CL) value of 16, there should be three more values to go with this eg a sequence such as 18-21-21-39, and in a nutshell is 'too fast' for the ASUS motherboard to run it at 3200. in simple terms the data would available too soon if running at 3200.
For the RAM to run at 3200 a CL value of 18 - the above 4 value figure has the lowest latency timings I could find that runs at 3200 the rest go up to 22-22-22-52.
HTH
John EB
@johnebaker @Former user
Hi John.
Now I'm getting more confused after looking up ASUS, Intel, and Corsair information about my system and what it is reporting.
First Intel reports this about my processor.
Then what the ASUS monitoring program is saying about my Memory speed, Cas timings etc.
So I go to both the ASUS site to check the memory is listed. It is. Then I go to the Corsair site and check for the memory. It only shows what is in stock but I find the same memory but 32 Gig sticks rather than the 16 Gig sticks I am using and find the following.
There are both numbers?
Not sure what to make of that research.
If the ram is working at its maximum and taking the reading from the ASUS app is actually reporting the SPD speed rather than the speed rating, then I should count out the stuttering within MEP is down to slow memory or should I? I also notice the SSD working at over 84MBs read, but seems to be on tick-over.
Maybe I'm expecting too much running effectively 13 tracks of video at 4K in parallel along with movement of frames as well as adding a blur effect on one of those frames.
Actually as I typed out that last sentence, it does seem like a lot of data flowing at once, and if that is adding the extra 2GB of data I see the motherboard ram creep up to and then discharge as the Template passes by, how much of that has to be delivered at the same time?
I think maybe I'm being unreasonable and maybe those templates were there before we had 4K editing capabilities.
Ray.
Hi Ray
The speed ratings in your last image are 2 different things
SPD = Serial Presence Detect - IIRC the frequency at which the memory is accessed to get the timing parameters during POST to set the Speed for RAM access post POST.
Speed rating is the maximum clock frequency the RAM can run at.
. . . . I should count out the stuttering within MEP is down to slow memory . . . .
Correct - the memory transfers to/from RAM to other hardware are significantly faster by several order of magnitude to, for example, data transfer to/from SSD and HDD drives.
Stuttering could be a result of insufficient memory which increases Windows page swapping to/from the SSD and HDD drive.
John EB
@johnebaker @Former user
Hi John.
So how do I know what speed the memory is running at on my machine?
Task Manager is only reporting a total maximum amount of ram in use during the project of around 14GB and about 2GB of vram.
Crystal Disk reports the drive speed of the project SSD as follows.
CPU is running at less than 10% at the time. The page file size for the C: drive is 4972MBs.
Processor scheduling is set to programs.
Ray.
@Former user
Hi
The reason why the Kingston RAM is running at 2666 is due to what is known as the Timing Latency the number of clock cycles needed to access the data from a specific address - in theory the lower the value the faster the RAM can be accessed, however in practice this is more complicated- that's a cop out for me (😁) RAM latency is a complex subject especially when it comes to multichannel memory.
The Kingston RAM specs quote a Latency timing (CL) value of 16, there should be three more values to go with this eg a sequence such as 18-21-21-39, and in a nutshell is 'too fast' for the ASUS motherboard to run it at 3200. in simple terms the data would available too soon if running at 3200.
For the RAM to run at 3200 a CL value of 18 - the above 4 value figure has the lowest latency timings I could find that runs at 3200 the rest go up to 22-22-22-52.
HTH
John EB
Hi & thanks but a lot of what is mentioned in the comments above is beyond me,
Just to be clear, when i put the 3200mhz Kingston Ram in, the max i can get out of the machine is the motherboard's default 2400mhz, if i go into Bios & try to change that the system doesn't boot.
I took those 3200mhz Kingstons out & put the old 2666mhz Micron back in, the motherboard recognised those without any Bios change & Taskmanager then told me i had 2666mhz.
@Former user @johnebaker
Hi Gid.
If you look on the ASUS site for your motherboard specs you will see it supports 3200Mhz ram modules, same as mine does, but Intel puts the limit of ram frequency of my i9900k as being DDR4 2666. I still suspect that is the probable cause but what I don't understand is that my motherboard can't support a generational chip that allows a higher frequency ram to be used.
To say I personally find this confusing is an understatement.
I have been busy trying to get the problem section of my project to load differing amounts of motherboard ram by using proxies and pre-rendering and all I can observe is the more motherboard ram in use, the worse that section plays. With only around 7 to 8GB in play it judders and misses showing text but exports with no problems.
Both GPUs go crazy.
Getting the project to load 20GB or motherboard ram the the results are much worse with delayed playback response, freezing when playing the timeline and an exported file with sections showing as frozen as the playback was. I even got an access violation memory crash at one point during playback.
The motherboards mem-check came back with no problems. Windows doesn't report any memory problems.
I have now allowed Windows to set the page file size and it has increased from 4972 MB to 7020 MB. So I'll start my checking allover again.
Ray.
Hi Ray
Looking at clock speeds is not an indication of how fast data can be transferred or the limit the processor is capable of, as I said above the issue is very complex because you also have to factor in:-
Hope this makes sense.
John EB
Hi John.
Yes I think I get the more channels of communication you have, the less speed the ram has to work at.
Like traffic on a motorway.
We, I take it, only have two lanes despite the amount of memory sticks in use. (as long as there are two sticks or four)
Then there is the two halves of each clock cycle.
I think the saying should be changed to 'It's not computer science' as rockets are now old hat 🙃
I have been looking more closely at that template as well. Each part is a maximum resolution of 1920 x 1080. I don't know if that is having to be re-scaled at the same time or not.
My head hurts.
Hi, i spoke to the tech nerds at the PC shop, they looked at my PC specs & a couple of them said they'd put the best they could in my machine when they built it, whether they're just covering themselves i don't know but they're fairly trustworthy & i think at heart they would want the best, & i think i'm going to be able to return the Kingston ram 👍
As always with my PC i want more but i'm going to accept it the way it is... I think 🤣🤦♂️
I had a go with that Simple Geometry / Skewed, never used it before & don't think i understand how it's supposed to, are there any instructions on these?
I laid out 6 clips, end to end & applied it to the first, it did it's thing & sort of plays,
I added Proxy & prerender, no better really
@Former user
Hi,
Collages: look at the number or highest number indicated. You need that many images/short clips on the timeline. Look at the numbers for Skewed. 1 will show up first, then you get the others, 2 through 6, in the order that they are on the timeline. Select the first one clip, apply the collage. Put the timeline full-screen and look at what happened.
If you want to tweak any of the images, ungroup them first.
You have the manual - it's just effects on each image, some with masks and sometimes an object with a mask. Each collage is different.
John CB
Hi, thanks, yep i knew about the amount of clips needed, & understood what was happening but it was the basic initial layout of clips needed & thanks for pointing out the no's on the thumbnail indicating in what order they'll appear 👍
I did scroll down , why do you think it leaves 2,3,4,5 empty?
@Former user @browj2 @johnebaker
Hi Gid.
Thanks for trying it out. It's pretty much the same problems I'm having except your runs smoother with less dropped frames. It ran beautifully in MEP 2020 so I'm not sure what is going on. I was surprised at the amount of vram it grabbed. I don't even have that much vram 😂😆😆.
I've no real Idea why it leaves those tracks empty. Maybe because later in the project you want to add more sound tracks to the start such as music or sfx?
It only left a three track gap when I first made mine in MEP 2020.I added music after.
Ray.
@Former user
Hi
I do not have the Geometry collages for some reason (?), however I have been working on a project for some time creating something similar and used for testing with and without effects such as the Video level and Artistic blur, you have applied to some of your video objects. The effects make a big difference to the smoothness of playback.
The clip below is from VPX 13 on my PC, and plays as smoothly in MEP 2022 on my laptop - specs for both in my signature, adding the effects makes them playback more jerky.
Note:
BTW - the new Size, Position & Rotation made this very easy compared to MEP 2021/VPX 13.
John EB
Hi John.
The Geometry collages came from the store. It can use seven video clips. If less are used it duplicates some of the others already in use to fill the spaces. Starting with the first clip before it starts to expand and change and fades out using the last clip in the sequence.
The shapes used within them are video clips with resolutions and frame rates that don't match the project settings.with some Master object jpegs seemingly created by Photoshop CS3 in 2018
I'm not sure I understand how they work in conjunction with each other or why some were made in Photoshop.
Ray.
Hi Ray
. . . . The Geometry collages came from the store. . . .
I did find them, however as you can see from the example posted above I prefer to make my own.
. . . . The shapes used within them are video clips with resolutions and frame rates that don't match the project settings.with some Master object jpegs seemingly created by Photoshop CS3 in 2018 . . . .
True as are the menu designs in MEP and VPX are created in Photoshop.
The 5 masks I used for the example I created in Paintshop Pro 2021 Ultimate.
Terry (@terrypin) haas a tutorial here on creating collages, it gives a good understanding of how they are created and you can make your own - I currently have 16 custom templates made and many others to convert to templates.
John EB