...and not impressed with the price. And while it is "suppose" to work with all major editing software, I don't see Media Composer and Pro Tools mentioned. That might happen in the future, but now it's not there.

@Reyfox

If it is vst based as shown on the website it should work within any vst environment but doesn't say whether it is vst 3 or not. I assume it should be.

Again, price vs usefulness and time saved. For a business it makes sense. If you don't have to re-shoot a scene to re-record audio and bring an artist, actor back to a studio, don't have to close mike actors on an inside location, it could pay for itself in a day. Boris knows this.

@CubeAce I fully understand time vs cost. I made a mistake of leaving my camera in auto white balance. A terrible mistake, because I was reading from my notes on my lap, and picked up the paper. It just slightly showed in the frame, but messed up the white balance for that extremely short moment in the video.

I'd have to shoot the entire video again. Nope... I wasn't up to it, it was late, and the video had to be done "yesterday". I tried the standard "color match" in various editors, but none did it right. At least not to my eyes. I wound up using a plugin I paid for and it saved my butt.

Plugins serve a purpose of speeding up and/or correcting. And I am sure Boris knows what they are doing .. it's just not for me.

Boris FX has grown to be the strongest plug-in company in the industry, and Magix really needs to push for Boris FX's official VPX/MMS compatibility.

But I think this might not be easy. Almost all Boris FX products are officially compatible with Vegas, such as BCC, Sapphire, Mocha, Silhouette, but this is based on the legacy cooperation with Vegascreativesoftware in the past. Vegas had a great relationship with Boris FX long before Boris became a behemoth. At that time Boris FX had no Mocha, no Sapphire, no Silhouette, no Particle Illusion.

It may not be a high priority for Boris FX to push compatibility with Magix's another product line, because there are currently other hosts waiting to be compatible with Boris FX OFX products, such as Fusion, Edius, and Hitfilm. VPX/MMS probably won't get high priority.

Even in fact, Vegas' support priority in Boris FX is not high, ranking after Adobe, AVID, Apple, Resolve, Nuke, etc.

I sort of remember part of a chat I had with Peter McAuley, Boris Senior Product Manager, he was surprised that Boris stuff worked at all in MS & that they didn't work very well prob because the plugins couldn't see the tracks properly,

A lot of Boris fx's have things like a 'blend', 'source' or 'mask' option, In Vegas & other programs there's compositing etc, tracks can interact with other tracks, but MS doesn't work like that or not in the right way anyway, MS seems to work in a fairly simple layering way, one track on top of another with the poss of B/W masks in between that allow for transparency..., Something like that, I don't think he went into detail or maybe he mentioned something that went over my head, I didn't pursue it any further but got the impression that to make Boris fit with MS, MS would have to change a lot., basically MS would have to have quite a serious re-write to create & incorporate the tools so that Boris could marry with, . Summat like that, 🤷‍♂️

@Nalmcruto

I agree that because Magix has one set of programs capable of using the Boris plug-ins that Magix are not that bothered about the compatibility of MMS or VPX as much. I also think Magix changed the name of Movie Edit Pro to Movie Studio to put into the minds of the consumers that there are now two different program paths to follow depending on how you see your editing diversifying. That fact the workflow of each is completely different does not seem to bother them.

@Former user

I also agree the lack of blending options doesn't help. There is still something wrong with some of the Chroma blending options when using an alpha channel with some types of files.

Nor does the lack of ability to link accurate tracking data to individual clips if you want an effect (or more than one effect) to stay put in a tracking shot.

I wanted to add a small crater to underneath the explosion area but failed utterly to get it to accurately stay in place as the shot panned. Even adding the light around the explosion was quite hard and was not able to mask sections of it so that it didn't show in areas that it could not have reached such as the opposite side of the rooftop.

Ray.

@Nalmcruto, I too have posted before that at least VPX to have OFX support. Vegas supports OFX just like Resolve. And while the relationship is still active between Vegas and BorisFX, it's the OFX support of the editing software that makes it work, and nothing much else, including legacy cooperation. I do think they have the juggernaut in plugins. Maxon has gone off the deep end in their pricing. I like Red Giant Magic Bullet Looks, but not at that price. And Boris has a lot of the same capabilities.

It is up to Magix to get on the "OFX train". They are almost there with a lot of the plugins from Continuum/NBFX/Sapphire working to varying degrees of success and total failure (crash like when trying to access Mocha or FX Editor in BCC+ plugins). The same Continuum Complete 2023 shows up in Hitfilm Pro 2021.3, Vegas Pro and Resolve because they support the OFX plugin format. NBFX TotalFX7 shows up too in Hitfilm, Resolve and Vegas, and works fully, including transitions. And Ignite Pro 5 (now killed by Artlist) also shows up in Magix along with the Resolve and Vegas on my computer. Ignite plugins aren't as "comprehensive", meaning the amount of adjusting that can be done, as the equivalents in BorisFX. But sometimes, you don't need a sledge hammer when a tack hammer will work.

I don't know what has to be done to have better integration with OFX. I am sure Magix has to consider the cost/benefit of doing the necessary programming to get things to work. But in the world of extensive plugin compatibility, they should consider expanding OFX support.

@Reyfox

As @johnebaker said earlier in this topic that Magix implemented the use of OFX in 2016. They have mentioned adding to the performance / capability of OFX another two times since then but not for the past two versions so maybe this time around they will give the next version another boost. Personally I think there will be more ties to the Intel graphics cards as Intel has placed orders to the FABS to produce new chips for the next two generations of the ARC based cards showing a commitment to enter and possibly stay as a third party graphics card producer. Magix themselves state a close relationship with Microsoft and Intel.

Again personally I can't see Magix having too many overlapping features between their video editors as they seem to have more carefully and deliberately separated abilities in each product over the past four releases of their programs.

Ray.

Again personally I can't see Magix having too many overlapping features between their video editors as they seem to have more carefully and deliberately separated abilities in each product over the past four releases of their programs.

Ray.

As they should have product separation. That I understand. But their lacking of OFX (Vegas from that time worked with OFX) implementation in VPX is something that needs to be worked on. As you and others have said, OFX is better implemented in Vegas than VPX.

I'm not saying everyone is going to go and jump on some expensive (as they usually are) OFX plugins, but it can possibly lead to others at least trying VPX. Especially if they have OFX plugins already.

@Reyfox

I think there are things within VPX that more urgently need fixing / implementing first.

More accurate object tracking.

Better Chroma Key implementation with more control.

Better handling of variable frame rate files.

A good in house camera stabilization option.

Smoother sound when scrolling for more frame accurate audio editing along with better audio buffer handling is one of my personal irritations but not it seems many other people. The delays between a playback action and the program responding after when the buffers or sample rates have to be increased I find aggravating. That delay can also cause problems for me when trying to decide where to place a new key frame in the key frame editor.

Other bug fixes so far ignored by Magix need fixing. I know John CB has a list as long as my arm that haven't been seen to that doesn't personally affect me but bothers dozens of other users.

Ray.

@CubeAce

I agree with all that you said. What I've noticed though, is that things that do need attention, and there is a possible plugin that will do it, that is what seems to happen. It's left to the plugin such as Mercalli for stabilization. When they offer NBFX TFX7, it has Chroma Key Pro. Or with Vegas Pro 20 (not Edit), the industry standard for Chroma work, BorisFX Primatte Studio.

But these types of solutions I've noticed are for the less costly editors. Resolve does a lot without plugins, but they have the financial backing of BMD. Avid and Premiere cost a ton more money, and can add a lot to their software.

It's the next tier down in pricing where compromises seem to be made to the core software with plugins filling in gaps that would require a lot of programming resources that they don't have.

The sad part is with persistent, never addressed bugs, is that I personally get used to them and work around them instead of complaining about them, knowing that bug lists like John's, seem to go largely unnoticed.

But then, even the "big boys" have their problems.

@Reyfox

This is what I meant by 'tiers of capability' between the programs. Audio scrubbing and exact audio editing is also much more precise in Vegas Pro. Easier to not having to cut audio to the frame and the waveform is easier to read without having to come out of the main editor.

As far as I understand things Resolve is Blackmagic's software produced mainly to integrate with their hardware and the main reason for it being created. Full versions are given away with their more expensive hardware. The main drawback with the free version everyone thinks is so marvellous is the maximum export resolution.

I agree, workarounds to problems are a part of everyday editing.

Agreed. Recently Adobe paid for 100 creatives to join them for a couple of days to find out why so many were leaving the platform.

At present if I were to seriously want to get into more effects I would be tempted to take out a one year subscription for Vegas Post as it seems it could do what I would want in that area at what seems at present to be the best value. I am also getting quicker using the interface as I see more and more similarities between the controls to VPX. The basic controls are just smaller and in different places 😅

Ray.

@CubeAce Hi, I had V Post 19, but I only upgraded this yr to Vegas Edit 20, because in V Effects quite a few fx controls were not available & transfer of the info back to V Pro was a bit hit n miss, sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't, & as Vegas Edit/Pro is very crashy with added effects esp Boris ones I decided to pay for Adobe AE for playing with my effects stuff, 0 crashes, fast auto caching of the timeline means good playback, fast render because it uses that prerender cache, all the controls of the fxs work as expected & there's loads of added extras within the program,, I'm gonna be learning it for yrs prob. A large proportion of Boris vids are in AE.

I had a few conversations with Peter McAuley Boris Senior Product Manager -

My comment - 'Hi, I know you can’t officially recommend a product' -

Peter's reply - 'Well for those that are dissatisfied with their current host, I think what most folks are doing is migrating into Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve, which also supports OFX plugins so the money already spent on 3rd party add-ons is not lost.

There are two options with Resolve - the free version and the paid version. The free version is perfectly fine for most work, but the paid version (which is a one time payment of $299 USD with free upgrades for life) offers incredible value for the price.

I’d suggest starting off with the free version, get your feet wet with it and continue from there. Upgrade to the paid version if you need the other features but I think you’ll find that you’ll be able to do most everything that you need to do in Resolve. Please feel free to ping me with any questions on that.

Cheers,
P.

------

& I made a post before buying AE - 'Upgrade from Vegas pro to adobe' -

Peter's reply - 'You might also consider running Blackmagic Davinci Resolve on your new system, which considering that you already have the OFX version of both Continuum and Mocha Pro would be a total zero cost option for you. The Resolve software is free and the OFX plug-ins that are used in Resolve will automatically run in Vegas and you have already paid for that. Resolve is a very powerful editing and compositing solution and worth looking into.'

&

'

We can’t really pick a favorite from the variety of editing and compositing hosts that we support with our plugins and can’t really endorse or influence the purchase of any one over any other - that has to come from you, the end user. Just keep in mind that all hosts have their own Achilles heel and none are totally free of issues.

Looking at the work that you’re doing, the system hardware that you’ve upgraded to and where you have already invested in paying for 3rd party plug-ins, I would think that giving Davinci Resolve a shot would make a lot of sense. They offer two versions of the product - one is free and one costs $295.'

Just sharing. I have free Resolve but rarely ope it, so when I get bored of paying Adobe I might have to give more interest. 🤷‍♂️

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

 exact audio editing is also much more precise in Vegas Pro. Easier to not having to cut audio to the frame

How do you figure that? Maybe compared to MMS, but not VPX. In both, you cut video to the frame. In both, you cut audio to the sample. It's only MMS that cuts audio to the frame.

the waveform is easier to read without having to come out of the main editor.

Again, you lost me. The waveform shows up on the timeline and you can increase the height of the track and zoom in. Where else do you see it in VPX?

There is a significant difference between VPX and Vegas for automation (volume curves or envelopes). In VPX, you can create a volume curve for the track and another for the object. In Vegas, you can only create a volume curve for the track. However, that volume curve does follow the object if it is moved, as far as I know. I use object volume curves extensively in my narrations.

VPX can only use VST2 plugins, Vegas can use VST3 plugins - but there a problems, as some users on the Vegas forum have pointed out.

Vegas Post - as I have indicated to you before, it is not as great as you think. Vegas Post includes:

• Vegas Effects which is a plugin of some kind of HitFilm/Ignite (FXHome) seems to have an unknown future. I tried HitFilm at one time. Great program, difficult to learn. Didn't need it. BluffTitler would probably be more apt.
• Vegas Image - this is just a bitmap image editor. If you have PaintShop Pro or PhotoShop, then you can just use it with VPX in almost the same way. It seems that Image (Imerge from FXHome) manages the changes as non-destructive, so you can easily go back to the Image with the image to make adjustments. Otherwise, there is little advantage over the other programs.
• Sound Forge Audio Studio - I got this with HumbleBundle - version 16, not sure which version comes with Post. Not in the same league as Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab. It was better when they offered Sound Forge Pro. That said, Magix has managed to break SFACL4. Version 3 works fine with VPX.
• Streaming (also comes with Vegas Pro) - fine if you do streaming, but from my understanding, this is really NewBlue Titler Live allowing one to add NB titles in real time.
• Speech to text/text to speech - available elsewhere (Micro$oft), but nice to have with the program (I have MS Office subscription and speech to text can be done in Word).

Other plugins like Boris FX Primatte Studio also come with Vegas Pro.

As for SFACL, it comes with spectral cleaning which is what puts it in a different class from SFAS. The spectral cleaning tool is a lite version of the one that comes with Samplitude Pro X Suite. Annoyingly, the full spectral cleaning tool came with the first version(s) of Audio Cleaning Lab and then was dumbed down. I complained to Magix. ACL was the first Magix program that I actually used.

SFACL4 comes with some iZotope FX10 VST3 plugins which are really great, especially the Repair Assistant. I would love to have these available in VPX. They even work fine in Music Maker 2023.

@Reyfox

Yes, Magix should definitely fix up OFX. Note that Magix turned most of their own effects into OFX, or at least they look like it. As I pointed out, there is a serious bug with the HitFilm effects that Magix has refused to fix for the last few years.

There are other problems as Ray has pointed out. I was quite discouraged yesterday once again with just trying to go between Samplitude Pro X3 and VPX. I could get VPX to crash and when it didn't, it did not import the audio file like it is supposed to. Magix had these things worked out years ago, Music Maker to MEP and back used to work fine, and I think that Samplitude did as well. I pointed out the Samplitude problems to Magix to no avail.

As well, VPX does not handle ASIO drivers, so using VPX was a non-starter for the guy on the Samplitude forum who was looking at using VPX.

Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab 4 is supposed to be the upgrade from Music Editor 3 that comes with MMS/VPX. It doesn't work properly. Just to start, it gives an error upon start up that Magix has refused to fix. That is ridiculous. Second, using it as the external audio editor in MMS/VPX opens SFACL4 with the same start up error and then does not load the audio file. SFACL3 works fine. Thirdly, SFACL4 comes with SpectraLayers Elements - a fantastic program, but the interface with SFACL4 does not work properly - the playback marker in SpectraLayers does not move in sync with the playback marker in SFACL4, making SpectraLayers useless. SpectraLayers as a SAL works great, but not with SFACL4.

Why do they not just fix this stuff? Someone needs to shake up these people.

As an aside, since Boris transitions don't work in VPX but do in Vegas, there is a question on the Vegas forum from someone who wanted to be able to keep and reuse a Boris transition of a certain duration. In VPX, one can simply save the transition and load/apply it elsewhere and it comes with the duration of the saved transition. Can this not be done in Vegas?

We talked about Pixelan SpiceMaster transitions that work well with VPX/MMS. If Pixelan can figure it out, how come Boris and NB cannot? Even proDAD Adorage works with VPX/MMS and I presume that proDAD VitaScene does as well.

I loaded Boris TS in Vegas and it works very smoothly. So the suggestion to work up a Boris title in Vegas, save it and open it in VPX is a feasible solution, just as feasible as using BluffTitler. This solution will inspire me to learn how to Boris TS.

Discouraging enough for today.

John CB

At present if I were to seriously want to get into more effects I would be tempted to take out a one year subscription for Vegas Post

@CubeAce

Magix seems to offer a 30-day trial for it, so just give it a try.

VEGAS Post/Effects is basically Hitfilm Pro. But it lacks several things compared to Hitfilm, such as Editing feature (Vegas can completely replace this), Foundry Camera Tracker (third-party plug-in), Mocha Hitfilm (third-party plug-in), BCC 3D Object (third-party plug-in). But VE can be more tightly integrated with Vegas than Hitfilm Pro.

Users can call VEGAS Effects from Vegas timeline. Or drag VEGAS Effects projects directly into Vegas for editing.

To learn VEGAS Effects, you can directly watch the Hitfilm tutorials:

https://www.youtube.com/@FXhome/videos
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-post-announcement-nab2019-coming-soon--115411/?page=2#ca715579
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDenmwGaF5W4TCHTUbWL8gQgNhNvZXYM-
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDenmwGaF5W7bs0MHXuw99pivW0Iolmmn

but the content related to Editing function, Foundry Camera Tracker, Mocha Hitfilm, and BCC 3D Object needs to be skipped.

FXhome has created a huge amount of video tutorials for Hitfilm, many of which are VFX tutorials of Hollywood blockbusters, and involve great free tools such as Blender and Unreal Engine, which have high learning value.

@browj2

Hi John.

Editing audio in Vegas is just a lot smoother and more responsive and has no lag between using the playback controls. Shows a stereo waveform as two channels without having to split them to two mono channels and is not solid which is my preference in case I need to pan. Does not repeat samples when scrolled slowly or sound like a repeating machine gun. That not only gets tiresome but means I have to keep an eye on the screen as well to make sure I get the correct editing point. I can't rely on my ears alone. Vegas also has more metering and routing choices. I prefer the mixer layout as well. It's better scaled and can be modified.

VPX audio in use.

Vegas audio in use.

To me they are chalk and cheese.

I too liked Hitfilm when it had the option of building the program up as needed. It was a good idea and since being taken over by the Israeli company that has all effectively gone. We will just have to see what happens.

My fear would be that these VPX 'bugs' that have not been fixed may also be a part of the separation of abilities between the programs provided by Magix and may never return. I hope I'm wrong but.

@Former user

Hi Gid.

Adobe do try to be the market leader and at least offer good support,,, at a price. I think judging by what I see on line a lot of people paying a lot of money are getting fed up with the crashes that seem to be getting more frequent. These tend to be very heavy users with probably dozens of editors working on a single project.

@Nalmcruto

Again though, before I would consider any of this I would need to upgrade my system which I don't really want to do for a while. Apparently at present the average person who is semi serious at basic video editing is running an nvidia 1660ti. My system isn't even that powerful. I still spend more time taking still images than video and I get by doing what I need with what I already have. The rest would just be for experimentation.

It is odd and a case of priorities. I don't mind forking out £300 for a car tyre but baulk at paying out for something already working. 😉😂

Ray.

@browj2 with the takeover of FXHome by Artlist almost 2 years ago, there has been no improvements that I know of for Hitfilm Pro. Just about everyone who were core to FXHome and Hitfilm have moved on. I wonder why. Artlist closed down the user forum and you can't post on the FB page. For all intent and purposes, Hitfilm Pro is dead. They've killed Ignite Pro, and anything else. I guess they thought that everyone was going to join the Artlist bandwagon, but they were wrong. They have their subscription price and perpetual for HFP.

I still have Hitfilm Pro 2021.3, and can send any clip to it from within Vegas, and drag the finished and exported clip from HFP onto the the Vegas timeline. Post would be easier to work with, with a cleaner interface, and Bluff (I've owned it forever) is nice, no way can it compete with Vegas Effects. No way, and it's not integrated into anything. It's solely standalone.

Vegas Stream started life as VividCast, which I have. If you stream, it's an important "feature" and fairly easy to use. I know a beta tester and according to NBFX, I should be getting the new Titler Live edition with the integrated VividCast features for free when available.

Boris transitions can be saved as a preset from within Video Event FX. Easy to do. See screenshot below. The same can be done with any transition, saving it as a Preset. Boris Transitions are amazing.

Pixelan also works with Vegas. I have it. Boris isn't going to do something specifically to work with VPX/MMS, sorry. OFX versions of Boris works with several editors, no modifications needed. No need to do extra programming on their part. And while Adobe and Avid have more to work with, getting the plugins for them will cost you much more. The question is, why doesn't Magix fully implement OFX? Pixelan was on the "bandwagon" for ages with several software. And then there is the demand for the plugin. Maybe if Magix offered working BorisFX with VPX, interest and demand might grow for BorisFX.

I can understand working up a Boris title in Vegas, rendering and bringing it into VPX. But why go through the round tripping if you can continue editing within Vegas, and make any adjustments down the line if needed.

You can send audio to any audio editor of your choice in Vegas in Options>Preferences>Audio tab. I have Soundforge Pro, which I've never used. For photo editing, there is a wonderful (although paid) plugin that does some really amazing things besides sending any image to any photo editor and back to the timeline, Happy Otter Scripts. And they can do the same thing with audio. Scripting for some, is integral in Vegas. Me? I stopped decades ago with Amiga Arexx scripting for the Video Toaster.

Vegas Image edits also RAW in 16bit, not just bitmap images. But I have PSP 2023 Ultimate, and with Happy Otter Scripts, it's drop dead easy sending images and getting them back on the timeline.

As for volume curves, you can create keyframes in any event on the audio timeline in addition to the entire track. And as you said, move the event, and keyframing sticks to it.

@Reyfox

Hi,

Boris transitions can be saved as a preset from within Video Event FX. Easy to do. See screenshot below. The same can be done with any transition, saving it as a Preset. Boris Transitions are amazing.

This is the thread in Vegas. Perhaps you can reply to it.

As for volume curves, you can create keyframes in any event on the audio timeline in addition to the entire track.

Is this new in Vegas because when I tried understanding audio in Vegas Edit 15, I could only find a track volume curve, not both object and track? That, and I never understood how Normalization works in Vegas. It seems to be a switch, off or on, with no indication that I could find as to the increase in gain, unlike in VPX/MMS where normalization increases the gain line on the object and you can see by how much.

I can understand working up a Boris title in Vegas, rendering and bringing it into VPX. But why go through the round tripping if you can continue editing within Vegas, and make any adjustments down the line if needed.

That would be if I really wanted a Boris title. Looking at it again in VPX, the titling is done in the Boris interface, so it's really just a matter of poor playback once back on the timeline. There is no way I would continue editing in Vegas. It is missing too many things that I am used to, starting with multiple timelines. I use them in almost every project.

My comments about Post were mainly to show that what Post does is really not so far from what we already have with VPX/MMS, just not as spiffy and powerful.

Enough for today.

John CB

For photo editing, there is a wonderful (although paid) plugin that does some really amazing things besides sending any image to any photo editor and back to the timeline, Happy Otter Scripts.

 

@Reyfox Hi, I have the free initial version of HOS, I can send images to GIMP for editing with the camera icon or using the other blue sq External Apps option I can edit photos in Boris's Optics, I like that it will load the image back onto the timeline as a separate Take in a non destructive type way, 👍

@Reyfox and @Former user mention Happy Otter Scripts, which reminds me of another important advantage of Magix Vegas: the Scripting API.

This is a feature that allows users to write their own scripts/extensions to aid in the workflow.

Unlike the OFX API, Scripting API is designed to extend the editing capabilities of Vegas.

Over the years, there have been many Vegas users who have written powerful Vegas extensions themselves, such as Vegasaur, Happy Otter Scripts, Excalibur, VASSt, etc.

@Reyfox, @Nalmcruto

Hi

. . . . I have PSP 2023 Ultimate, and with Happy Otter Scripts, it's drop dead easy sending images and getting them back on the timeline . . . .

Is this a destructive or non-destructive edit to the images?

John EB

@johnebaker Hi I don't use Happy Otter Scripts plugin, but I guess that's a bridge plugin that connects almost any other image editor (destructive or non-destructive) to Vegas.