Deadlock | Page 3

pmikep wrote on 12/22/2020, 10:49 AM

I am encoding Test2 now. At one minute I got a pop up about Hardware Acceleration being disabled. I click OK and it continues. The main encoding window still says "Hardware encoding."

I try it again and no message about Hardware. I shut down MEP and tried again. No message about Hardware.

I notice that the check box "Calculate effects on GPU" is grayed (but checked). I can not uncheck it.

CubeAce wrote on 12/22/2020, 11:59 AM

@pmikep

Hi Mike.

Check your Program settings and you should find your Intel GPU is missing.

Ray.

Chrilles wrote on 12/22/2020, 1:01 PM

Hi all,

Have you tried to export the movie (TestProject) when all HW acceleration is disabled?
That would probably be the most equivalent/comparable export to my export because I don't have any Intel HW.

Regards,
Christian

pmikep wrote on 12/22/2020, 1:27 PM

Check your Program settings and you should find your Intel GPU is missing.

You're right.

Well, technically, MEP defaulted to Standard Compatibility. (It was using my Nvidia.) It happened at Frame 1540, if that helps.

I thought maybe my VRAM was full. But not according to TaskManager.

johnebaker wrote on 12/22/2020, 1:38 PM

@Scenestealer, @CubeAce

Hi

I can confirm the high activity on the RTX GPU when the export gets to the videos that have Vegas stabilisation, irrespective of which option is set in Graphics Settings and the Intel/RTX settings in MEP.

The RTX is definitely being utilised for the Vegas stabilisation, and the UHD 630 for all encoding in every combination of settings.

@Chrilles

One thing I did notice in your export preset Advanced settings you have Streamable and HTML start file checked - try exporting with both turned off - if you are uploading to Youtube, Vimeo or similar there is no need to check these options.

John EB

pmikep wrote on 12/22/2020, 1:49 PM

I set my Video Display to the Intel UHD 630 and it, too, "failed" at frame 1540.

Since both the Nvidia and the UHD are failing at frame 1540, I'm thinking that it's not a GPU issue per se, but something in MEP that's throwing a false message.

johnebaker wrote on 12/22/2020, 2:14 PM

@pmikep

Hi Mike

. . . . Nvidia and the UHD are failing at frame 1540, . . . .

I assume this is Test project 2 and is the start of the second text object scrolling right to left?

Does it 'fail' if the text object is removed?

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 12/22/2020, 4:01 PM

@Chrilles @Scenestealer @emmrecs @johnebaker @pmikep @pmikep

Hi Christian.

Just for you I have turned off as much HWA as I can. However within the MEP settings it is impossible to not have the Intel GPU showing within the setup menu if the system has one without disabling it in the bios.

Everything else I could leave unticked in that regard I did.

The whole project (TestProject.MVP) exported without incident and took my system one hour eleven minutes and 34 seconds to complete.

Despite all hardware acceleration being switched off there was still activity from both GPUs from time to time. The Intel GPU very infrequently with no more than a maximum activity of 8% registering for short durations of a few seconds at a time. Possibly it appeared less than a half dozen times. The nvidia however reappeared quite often with no sense of why or when it should appear. Sometimes when text was there other times when there was no text at all. Sometimes for periods of around two minutes at a time. There did not seem to be pattern to it. There was next to no evidence of the nvidia's vram being used. The nvidia GPU usage though when in action was quite high. Often around the 70% range. Nothing in the hardware got above 41c.

So while the Intel GPU seemed to be suppressed on the whole, the nvidia card was not.

This may suggest that Windows has more control over the GPUs than MEP, although MEP was in 'Power saving' mode and not 'Let Windows Decide'.

However, the Windows Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling has been on for the entire set of tests. This I only activated on November 25th after a Windows update. Which update it came with I have no idea but was not present much earlier. I did have a conversation about this with John Baker (EB) on Nov 26th and he said it was

introduced with the 2004 upgrade and allowed the graphics card to manage its own video memory (VRAM) instead of the operating system and potentially improves performance and reduce latency, ie not guaranteed and the performance increase in some cases is marginal 1 - 2 fps more, and AFACS is related to gaming.

So I have no idea whether that setting has any influence or not.

Ray.

pmikep wrote on 12/22/2020, 4:18 PM

. . . . Nvidia and the UHD are failing at frame 1540, . . . .
I assume this is Test project 2 and is the start of the second text object scrolling right to left?

Does it 'fail' if the text object is removed?

Yes, TestProject 2.

I couldn't find an easy way to show a frame counter in MEP. (And a search of this forum says it's not an option.)

I calculated the time from the frame count and removed the second text object. MEP completed without throwing a "Hardware" error.

Scenestealer wrote on 12/22/2020, 10:54 PM

@CubeAce @Chrilles @johnebaker @pmikep @emmrecs

Hi Ray

This has been all very odd behaviour.

On the surface of it - yes, however I am not surprised that selecting "High Performance GPU" disables all HWA!

This was confirmed by Magix support approx 1 year ago in response to my questions about the effect of the Windows Graphics Settings on MEP and how the GPU selection in Program Settings>Display tab>Video mode can change itself after a change in Windows GFX settings.

I have copied their response a couple of times in threads since then, but again:-

The reason why the power saving options interact with the program settings is that when you select the high performance graphics card, the power saving Intel card is disabled. This means that it is no longer selectable in the program (even Quicksync is not possible), which automatically selects the Nvidia card. But this is not the case the other way around. Thus, if you select the power-saving Intel card in the Windows settings again, the Nvidia card remains activated and selected in the display options. This has to be changed manually if necessary.

This does not explain your situation here though:-

What got really curious was changing the setting for MEP in Windows to High Performance.

This time it effectively blocked the used of the nvidia card and not the Intel GPU.

I wouldn't have expected that! There was some discussion in the German forum that the Intel DCH drivers were causing some problems with HWA and Intel i9's (sorry) which I raised with Magix support at the same time (Nov2019), to which they responded:-

Problems with Intel drivers are well known to us. This concerns the i9 series and its new drivers. But this doesn't only affect our programs. On Youtube you can find videos showing the Quicksync problems with current i9 processors. Of course, we are already in contact with Intel.

Sorry but I never heard any more about that but I just mention it as you have seen the odd quirk that others have not - probably nothing.

Something I notice as strange from your SS's is the very saw tooth nature of you CPU cores usage compared to other's SS's with the same project's render. Maybe it is just the area that was causing John's GPU to rapidly spike......like his was using the Nvidia for processing whereas yours was falling back onto the CPU. What was happening on the timeline at that point of the render on your machine and were your GPU's disabled during that export?

Peter

CubeAce wrote on 12/23/2020, 4:31 AM

@Scenestealer @johnebaker @Chrilles @pmikep

Hi Peter.

First, no need to say sorry for anything when reporting back about performance issues. They are always what they are. Every system is different. Every system is going to have its quirks other systems do not exhibit when interacting with a program that is trying to cope with multiple setups. I'm always amazed such things work as well as they do.

All the screen shots were taken as the export was taking place. So yes, I had turned off as much hardware acceleration as was possible for this export as I could but you can see from the screen shots there was activity but what activity and why I don't know.

The idea of the four in line screen shots is they each show the rendered movie time so they could compare what is happening on their machines at that point of the export. Obviously there was more activity than I posted and those are just samples of differences I noticed between GPU activity and non activity.

I'm not sure what Magix were saying. The Intel drivers go across processor platforms don't they? Or are they saying the drivers within an i9 processor react differently? There has been several updates since the report you quote but I have noticed that under a lot of loading situations the graph is very spiky but on occasion it is sometimes smoother.

Please don't ask for examples as I can't think of any off of the top of my head but mainly I see spikes. One difference is I have on each occasion is I have changed the export resolution of the exports to the native resolution of the video clip within the project compared to the export resolution embedded in the MVP.

I will do one more export to see it that makes a difference. I'm sure it will export much faster, but other than that I'm not sure.

One thing I have not touched is any part of what is on the the MVPs timeline in question. Only export and MEP internal settings and Windows Graphics priority settings have been changed during all these tests.

Johns' nvidia card architecture is also different to mine I think as well as having more vram although he has not listed it in his signature to be able to check.

Ray.

CubeAce wrote on 12/23/2020, 5:32 AM

@Scenestealer @Chrilles @johnebaker @pmikep

Hi Peter.

I exported the project again the same as the last time but this time left the export resolution and quality settings alone.

It exported without a hitch in thirty four minutes forty one seconds and as I expected, the heavy CPU spikes disappeared but otherwise I saw the same GPU activities in the same places as last time.

My turn to say sorry if this threw you. 😉

Ray.

johnebaker wrote on 12/23/2020, 7:56 AM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

Could have sworn I updated my Signature when I installed the graphics card - updated now. Thanks for the heads up.

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 12/23/2020, 9:05 AM

@johnebaker

Hi John. No Problem.

I note your nvidia supports Direct X 12 Ultimate latest build. More ray tracing and faster machine learning applications.

Out of more interest I ran the test again with all of the project settings intact but with all my GPUs enabled and hardware acceleration boxes ticked.

The export again was successful. Export time was fourteen minutes and twenty seconds.CPU usage was well down. Overall power consumption was down 53%. Vram was back in use and both GPUs worked without any breaks throughout the export. Nothing was disabled and no warnings were issued. nvidia card ran seven degrees hotter at 43C While the CPU temperature dropped to 40C.

Ray.