@macarrao

Welcome to the Magix user to user forums.

I don't normally work with 4k video but two things I might suggest to you.

1. Working with 5 tracks of (4k) video is going to tax even a monster system like yours, I suspect, especially since you have only one drive, apparently, which must simultaneously handle and process the data of the OS, the program and your video files. An additional drive, exclusively for your video files, might at least help!
2. I'm not sure whether you have tried the "Proxy files" route and/or the option in VPX to reduce the resolution of the timeline playback in VPX. Using either, or perhaps both of these, should enable smoother playback but will NOT impact the quality of the exported video.

You say the drivers for your NVidia card are up to date; I assume you checked this on the NVidia site and not via Windows Update?

Jeff
Forum Moderator

@macarrao

Hi, and welcome to the user to user forums.

You have a quite powerful system.

There could be several reasons of which the ...

Hello Ray, Thanks you for your reply and sorry for delay. And sorry i forgot to say i have 3 nvme of 2tb, the Magix program is on C:, the videos and media are on F:

@macarrao

Welcome to the Magix user to user forums.

I don't normally work with 4k video but two things I might suggest to you....

Hello Jeff thank you for your reply and sorry for delay, and yes i use proxy files options, i put it as 200 tracks.

I managed to improve the playback performance a lot, I followed the tip of another user in another question here on the forum.
*In Hardware Acceleration I put the option of import to "CPU", and processing and export to "GPU".

*On video/Audio options is marked "simple video object display".

*But I think the function I was using wrong was in Video Settings, before it was UHD/UHD-2 16:9 (3840x2160), I changed it to 4k (4096x2160 17:9) and I think that after that the playback has improved a lot and there was not much gagging and loss of effects.

But I'm still not sure, only when I'm going to make another video, because this one I tested is already ready and the problems occur more vigorously when I'm starting to edit a new project.

I'm not a professional editor, I'm a beginner in the video area. I work with music production, and I make videos for some singers and bands that come to my studio. I have the
premiere, but I like and adapted much more to Magix. Thanks for the help, successes.

I'm attaching a video for you to see how it was, when I start editing the transition effects, the defects start to appear, video in slow motion, the audio popping, the video freezing, it was horrible. This has been happening for months, and whenever I was going to edit a video I had to keep closing and opening the program.

@macarrao Hi,

There's an App called MediaInfo, download it, it's free & a fast download with no added adverts or any of that rubbish. https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

After downloading, right click on the media file in your Windows folder, open MediaInfo, choose Text from the options at the top, Copy & paste the information in a new comment on here 👍

The more you use this to look at your files the easier it will be to understand & will help you set MS settings,

Like this

@macarrao Hi,

There's an App ...

Hello Gid Thank you.

The text:

General
Complete name                            : F:\Videos\Aryenne\Por causa de Jesus\20220905_221341.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 921 MiB
Duration                                 : 5 min 48 s
Overall bit rate                         : 22.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-06 01:19:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-06 01:19:31
xyz                                      : -08.0902-034.9735/
com.android.version                      : 12

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 5 min 48 s
Bit rate                                 : 21.9 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 29.862 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 19.996 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.524 FPS
Original frame rate                      : 30.000 FPS
Real frame rate                          : 30.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.088
Stream size                              : 910 MiB (99%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-06 01:19:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-06 01:19:31
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
mdhd_Duration                            : 348842
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 5 min 48 s
Source duration                          : 5 min 48 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 256 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 10.6 MiB (1%)
Source stream size                       : 10.6 MiB (1%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-09-06 01:19:31
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-09-06 01:19:31
mdhd_Duration                            : 348747
 

@macarrao

Hi.

Thanks for the file data.

As partially suspected, it is an HEVC file with variable frame rate. These can cause problems because Video editors at present deal with constant frame rate exporting.

This means that when the frame rate varies the program has to either decide to cut frames but calculate which won't be missed as the motion within the frames occurs, or add frames to keep the file at a constant frame rate, in which case it has to make them up by looking at the frames ahead of a chosen existing frame and then at the frames behind that frame and make composite frames to make the video look convincing. All of that takes up a lot of processing power real time. It is not too bad if the frame rate do not vary by more than a few frames per second but in your example file it varies a lot.

The relevant lines in the code I will highlight below.

ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 5 min 48 s
Bit rate                                 : 21.9 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 29.862 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 19.996 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.524 FPS
Original frame rate                      : 30.000 FPS
Real frame rate                          : 30.000 FPS

That's a frame rate difference of 40 frames per second in places. Possibly in many places. Worse it exceeds the intended target frame rate of 30 frames per second and some of the frame rates are not standard frame rates.

I think you will have to convert them to a constant frame rate for use as I mentioned in my previous reply. If you can also see if you can set your phone to record at a constant frame rate in future. The files may become much larger but they will be much easier to edit.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Ray, @macarrao is using proxy files. I doubt whether VFR is an issue.

In my experience, recent phones cannot be locked to a framerate, despite what the settings can be put on. The settings are only the target, with the lighting determining what actually happens.

@macarrao

But I think the function I was using wrong was in Video Settings, before it was UHD/UHD-2 16:9 (3840x2160), I changed it to 4k (4096x2160 17:9)

I wouldn't do that. All TVs and normal computer monitors are 16:9 (eg 3840x2160, UHD). If you make your movie 17:9 (eg 4096x2160, 4k), you'll either have black bars at the top and bottom of the screen (letterbox) or you'll lose video off the sides (or worse, they'll be squashed slightly). They won't be large, but they will be there. Unless you have a special need to export in an odd-ball ratio, you should make your movies 16:9 (eg UHD). That is what your source videos are.

Another thing you can try is turn on the lightning bolt at the bottom right corner of your VPX monitor. That will decrease the resolution of the display and allegedly speed things up.

For future videos, I'd suggest you put your camera/phone onto H.264 format, not HEVC (Samsung/Android: Camera Settings>Video-Advanced Recording Options> Turn off Reduce File Size. Apple: Put your camera into Video mode then: Settings>Camera >Formats>Most Compatible).

@AAProds

Hi Al.

I doubt whether VFR is an issue.

Sorry to disagree but I think it very much could be an issue, especially since, as @CubeAce (Ray) notes, the footage has a range of very nearly 40 fps!

@macarrao

One thing you might like to try (to test whether the VFR is a factor) would be to download and install the free Handbrake and use it to convert your footage to Constant Frame Rate (I would suggest initially, 30 fps). Then try inserting the converted file into VPX and check whether the problem has at least been reduced.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Using proxy files in this instance may make it worse. If just a few frames in the original file is meant to show for 30 frames or 59 frames are supposed to represent 30 frames (The frame rate the file is reported to have been set to.) how is the program supposed to reproduce that in a proxy file and keep the audio in sync which is recorded at a constant frame rate?

@macarrao

Hi.

Was the frame rate set to 30fps?

Ray.

@macarrao

Hi.

Thanks for the file data.

As partially suspected, it is an HEVC file with variable frame rate. These can cause problems because Video editors at present deal with constant frame rate exporting...

Thanks you Ray,i learn, will do it in my next videos, i use a samsung s21, i just open de video camera, choose UHD and starts kkkkkkkk, but will do the settings and changes that you indicate to me and yes it are marked on video settings as 30 FPS, UHD 30 fps. Best Regards

One thing you might like to try (to test whether the VFR is a factor) would be to download and install the free Handbrake and use it to convert your footage to Constant Frame Rate (I would suggest initially, 30 fps). Then try inserting the converted file into VPX and check whether the problem has at least been reduced.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Hi Jeff thanks for the suggestion will do it with sure. Best Regards

Ray, @macarrao is using proxy files. I doubt whether VFR is an issue.

...

AAProds, thanks for reply, yeah i see the black bars when i end the movie kkkkkk, but ok i learn now too, next time know what to do. About the lightning bolt, iknow of it, but i imagined it would be to use in something bigger, like a movie of hours. For these short 5 minute videos, I think maybe it wouldn't be necessary. Oh, unless it's really always necessary, no matter the size of the videos and quantity. And will use your tips too, thanks you for your time, Best Regards.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, according to the comments and support I believe that the problem is not the program, but I am doing something wrong. I will study more about videos, rates and sizes. I'm going to upgrade to X14 now because as the company told me, it has a big improvement in performance. I'll test it and I'll tell you how the result was in the future. Thank you all for the comments and tips, stay with God and good luck. successes.

@emmrecs @CubeAce

Gents, think about it. A proxy file is a rendered MXV. It cannot be VFR. It is what Magix uses on the timeline.

What happens when you do the final render? Magix uses the original files to create the final export. Once again, VFR to CFR. Do we have regular reports of phone videos being out of sync? No.

While the audio sync may be an issue, there is something else going on here if the OP is using proxy files because the VFR cannot be a factor.

Until/unless we get an indication that audio sync may be an issue, IMO it is pointless raising it. At this point, it is a red herring.

For what it's worth, I just chucked a 300mb/1minute long HEVC file with FR from 39 to 120 onto the timeline in MMS 2023. The proxy file was exactly the same length as the MP4, to the frame. And the audio, both in the parent file and the proxy was perfectly in sync.

Ray,

HEVC files take a lot more processing power than MP4 files.

Again, HEVC are MP4s.

@macarrao Hi, I have a Samsung S21 Ultra, I avoid HEVC files, these are my settings to produce 4k/UHD AVC files

Open camera, top left Settings - Advanced recording options,

@AAProds

Gents, think about it. A proxy file is a rendered MXV. It cannot be VFR.

Why not?

From the Help manual

If performance deteriorates and playback becomes shaky due to hardware limitations, hi-res source material or very complex projects, it is recommended to use proxy files for editing. Lower resolution copies (not re-encoded as you are suggesting) of the original file in a format that is better for playback are created and used for the editing process. The original files in a higher resolution are then used for the export process by default.

You can activate the Create proxy files automatically function directly in the start dialog or at a later time in "File" > "Settings" > "Movie..." > "General movie settings". By default this option is not selected.

When this option is activated, proxy files will automatically be created for all video files imported to the project window or the project folder.

Note: Make sure there is sufficient memory available if proxy files are going to be created.

The rendering process can be canceled by pressing the "Esc" key.

Proxy files will not be created if the quality settings for them are higher than the quality of the source material.

It is not possible to create proxy files on an FAT file system (such as on an SD card) so the source material for proxy files should be saved on an NTFS drive (Windows standard).

Proxy files are not created for the preview on the program monitor. The conversion only takes place when the material is moved from the program monitor to the project folder. Now editing can be done more smoothly on the program monitor.

It is unfortunately not possible to put an mxv file into MediaInfo to find out what is going on and right clicking for 'Properties' tells you nothing of value.

Unlike H.264 macroblocks, H.265 processes information in what’s called coding tree units (CTUs). Whereas macroblocks can span 4x4 to 16x16 block sizes, CTUs can process as many as 64x64 blocks, giving it the ability to compress information more efficiently but seems to be more work for hardware encoders / decoders. So yes both are MP4 underneath but read differently.

I could see how much harder my nvidia card was working when in the past I tried H265 even though at that time they were conversions so constant frame rate. I haven't bothered since.

Ray.

@macarrao Hi, I have a Samsung S21 Ultra, I avoid HEVC files, these are my settings to produce 4k/UHD AVC files

Open camera, top left Settings - Advanced recording options,

Thanks you Gid, i put these settings now. i have sure i have changed it when i brought the s21, now i see my settings are all wrong, i dont know if my wife changed it or any software update, but i will lookup it on each new video i record. Best Regards

@CubeAce

Ray,

My 300mb HEVC went down to 255mb in the MXV proxy. I cannot see how an HEVC file encoded into MXV is anything but a complete re-render. And why would Magix create a VFR proxy if VFR is so bad for video editing? And if they do create VFR proxies, then they must think that that is the best way of doing it.

Unlike H.264 macroblocks, H.265 processes information in what’s called coding tree units (CTUs). Whereas macroblocks can span 4x4 to 16x16 block sizes, CTUs can process as many as 64x64 blocks, giving it the ability to compress information more efficiently but seems to be more work for hardware encoders / decoders. So yes both are MP4 underneath but read differently.

No arguments there, but I don't see the relevance. Nobody is suggesting HEVC is easier to work with. My point was your use of the terms HEVC and MP4 is confusing.

Edit: last para deleted. Proxies work great when you tick them in the Lightning bolt options!

Edit 2: first para revised.

@macarrao

On the Lightning Bolt button at the bottom left of the monitor, tick "Use Proxy Objects":

My system now runs the UHD video like a rocket.

I didn't even know that option existed; one learns something every day... One could, of course, ask why I should need to do that given I've told the program to create proxies anyway. 😎

@AAProds, @macarrao

Hi

The proxy files for preview is a new option which is odd as they were automatically used in previous versions of MEP - from the manual:

Create proxy files

This feature is disabled by default. When this option is activated, proxy files will automatically be created for all video files imported to the project window project folder. Proxy files are not created for the preview on the program monitor.

I think that this option is actually pre-rendering the video + effects before playback rather than in real time from the proxy files created during import, ie similar to the pre-render range option however is automatic every time you playback the timeline.

John EB

@AAProds @macarrao @johnebaker @Former user @emmrecs

While I don't totally agree with your reasoning I do think an nvidia 3080Ti should be able to cope regardless (Based on Gids ability to process such files with no difficulty) but I wanted to see if converting the files made a difference as that is the second bit of information macarrao gave us (The first being the video of usage).

I tried to replicate the problem as best I can (Not having similar H265 files to hand) but using H264 flies at 4K 50 fps at much higher bit rates using the same amount of parallel tracks shown in the video.

While I'm sure your own experiences are correct, did you actually try to run four tracks of video simultaneously as I don't feel personally that unless you try you are not close to replicating the problem.

As that experiment worked flawlessly for me without the need to revert to using proxy files or pre-rendering (the latter of which would not work if editing on the fly while simultaneously playing back the project anyway) and then having the H265 file data from macarrao to hand and no other answers regarding system set up, it seemed worth while trying to see if converting to a constant frame rate would be a solution.

It would be nice to see if conversion works and get feedback first

If it doesn't then my next question would have been 'Where do the project files reside?' as that to me would have been the next logical question as it appears on the surface that the main machine only has a C: drive.

I did it in that order because I thought converting the files if worked would have not then needed an additional drive to allow the project to run smoothly.

Ray.

@macarrao

Hi

What is drive F: and internal drive or external USB drive?

@CubeAce, @AAProds

Hi Ray

. . . .  it is recommended to use proxy files for editing. Lower resolution copies (not re-encoded as you are suggesting) of the original file in a format that is better for playback are created and used for the editing process. . . . . .

The source files are re-encoded and are 960 x 540 px resolution at the same framerate as the original - whether CFR or VFR I do not know.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Focused only on one area of the file.......Again! *!*!*. F drive 😞

Well caught.

Where is the information about the proxy files please. I think things must have changed changed since MEP 2020 where there was no options or information that I could find, or VPX 12 where there was a bewildering array of options but I have no idea of the present options if any.

Looking at that I would think all I frame encoding could be best for a variable frame rate file as the frames could easily be repeated until there was a change. (If that were possible, no idea.)

Ray.

Hi, as stated MediaInfo doesn't tell if an MXV is constant or variable,

but I found this interesting..

If i added a variable file to MS with add proxy ticked -

Exported it became a constant clip, (as expected )

I could then close that project & delete all files from the windows folder except the MXV, that MXV will load onto the MS timeline even though the associated files no longer existed,

So I tried to see what i could do with that file,

I loaded it into Handbrake, at the top Source it says 23.98fps but not whether it is constant or variable

I set Frame rate to Same as source,

the encoded file came out Variable whether Constant or Variable was ticked in the boxes below Framerate (FPS)

---------------

So i did the same but with the Constant file i'd exported orig, deleted everything except that constant file, new project & added it into MS,

it created an MXV file, i closed MS & deleted everything but the MXV & put it into Handbrake

I says 23.98 again at the top

& again the encoded file came out Variable whether Constant or Variable was ticked in the boxes below Framerate (FPS)

Either I'm using Handbrake wrong, Handbrake itself is wrong, or those MXV's appear to be variable despite what file is added to the timeline..

Or of course this above is all nonsense 😂😂🙃

----------------

PS. I put the constant exported MP4 through Handbrake twice,

Once with Same as source with Constant ticked, it produced a constant clip.

& once with Same as source but Variable ticked in the box below, that too produced a constant clip,

So according to Handbrake, those MXV's are 23.98fps Variable 🤷‍♂️

----------------

PPS. I do know when that file is added to the timeline MS Object properties says the MXV is 30fps

@CubeAce, @Former user

Hi

AFAICS the MXV file format is a video only file format and has some 'peculiarities' which make it readable correctly only using Magix software - eg:

• Proxy from 25 fps CFR video clip reads as 23.98 fps in Handbrake, 25 fps in MMS.
   
• Proxy from 30 fps VFR reads as 23.98 fps in Handbrake, conversion with same as source option checked gives is 23.98 VFR, however in MMS the proxy is 30 fps.

John EB