@Scott-Evans

Hi

The track order is the reverse of Vegas products ie track 1 is the background 'layer' as you add/move items to higher track numbers they will appear on top of a lower track number.

All tracks are universal, ie they can hold any image, video, title objects - no track is dedicated to video, audio, titles etc.

There is no feature for dragging a track up/down in order however there is a different method available to move a whole track up/down:

1. In the track header, left end of the track, of the one to be moved, click the small down arrow and Select Cut
    
2. In the header of the track where you want to insert the cut track, select the drop down arrow in this track header and select Paste. the selected track and all those with a higher track number will be moved down.

Repeat the process as many times as required.

John EB
Forum Moderator

@Scott-Evans

You're probably asking "why why why?" 🙂

The logic is that is makes it easy to add things "on top of" others by putting them on higher-numbered tracks, which are "lower" tracks when you're looking at the program on the screen. So, you're "looking up" through all the objects/tracks.

Even though it sounds a crazy idea, this works well because you don't have to keep "inserting" new tracks for objects (video, audio, titles) as you would have to do with a top-down concept.

You can drag objects out of the way downwards temporarily; you have complete freedom in the vertical.

The whole system works well but I can imagine it'd be a bit of a head-spin to convert to.

There has been mention of cheap deals on the real Vegas elsewhere in the forum if you don't want to convert the Magix way of things.

@AAProds I understand the logic in that order but i've used MEP for 18yrs now & it still messes with my 'logic', Things underneath are the things that are on top 🤯🙃🥴🤣🤣

I don't have a logic problem Gid, I just turn my monitor upside down when using MEP! 😂

@AAProds 🙃😂👍

@Scott-Evans

Hi,

Track protocol: As I've stated many times, it's something we learned in elementary school. The tracks are numbered down the left side, just like you would do on a sheet of paper if the teacher asked you to write 1 to 10 down the left side of a piece of paper. 1 is the lowest number but you would put it first at the top, 2 is higher number than 1 but you would put it second, 3 is higher than 2 and so on. If you can remember just that, then you're fine. It doesn't matter where it is on the page or screen, 1 is always the lowest number, the lowest track and thus the backest background. Just use the track numbers to guide you.

Secondly, MEP/MS has tracks, just tracks and you can put whatever you want on them (that doesn't mean that you should). There are no audio tracks, no image tracks, no video tracks, no composite tracks, no adjustment tracks, no weirdo tracks, just tracks, lots of them. Use them for what you want, call them whatever you want.

Thirdly, I have never had to move a track. I move objects. Moving all objects on a track is as simple as moving a track, if such an unnecessary feature were available. Simply change to Mouse mode for a single track (shortcut 8). Grab and drag the first object on the track - all objects on the track are highlighted, and move it to another track, preferably empty. All of the other objects on the track move with it. Done. Watch the video. Easy?

Don't forget to switch back to single object mouse mode (shortcut 6).

You may want to watch my tutorials on Basic Editing parts 1 and 2 to get a good feel for how the main editing tools work:

John CB

Thanks to everyone for the tips/tricks. Your info does help. It just seems wasteful to have to drag track content to a different empty track to put things in a different hierarchy, rather than just re-ordering the tracks directly. That then leaves an unnecessarily empty track in its wake. I'm fine with the backwards order than I'm used to

I'm sure I'll eventually get used to the flow of this Magix tool, but didn't realize it was a completely different product than the legacy Movie Studio products from Vegas when I purchased it. Didn't realize there would be nearly the learning curve, so will have to budget extra time to learn things differently than I've been doing for the last 8 or so years of Movie Studio. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I guess. Expect a bunch more questions in the future. :-)

For now, I think the to hardest things to relearn will be to re-learn that scrolling my mouse wheel no longer zooms in and out on the timeline, but rather only goes forwards and backwards. Have to ctrl-scroll to zoom in and out. Also, will have to take a bunch of repetition to remember that I have to click on the time section of the timeline to relocate my cursor. In legacy MS, I could click anywhere on any spot on a track on the timeline.

@Scott-Evans

Hi,

You'll catch on quickly.

Now you have a feature that Vegas users only dream about - multiple timelines (Movies) in a project. And much, much more.

John CB

@Scott-Evans

I'm sure I'll eventually get used to the flow of this Magix tool, but didn't realize it was a completely different product than the legacy Movie Studio products from Vegas when I purchased it. Didn't realize there would be nearly the learning curve, so will have to budget extra time to learn things differently than I've been doing for the last 8 or so years of Movie Studio. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I guess. Expect a bunch more questions in the future. :-)

Don't worry Scott, you weren't the only one who got suckered in to a completely different program. Magix hid the change pretty well. If you had known something big was up and knew what to look for, you could have cottoned-on. But when it just says an upgrade is available, one is not inclined to do that.

That said, we really like MEP/MMS and we're here to help!

@Scott-Evans

It just seems wasteful to have to drag track content to a different empty track to put things in a different hierarchy, rather than just re-ordering the tracks directly. That then leaves an unnecessarily empty track in its wake. I'm fine with the backwards order than I'm used to.

You can delete any empty track you wish or add tracks between tracks as needed.

Ray.

@browj2, thanks for the links to your tutorials! They're very easy to follow. I've watched a few of them now, and although different than what I'm accustomed to from previous tools, MMS does look to do everything I'm wanting/needing to do; just need to figure out how to get there by learning new, and forgetting old. But at my age, forgetting is the easy part of that. :-)

Thanks to others for their encouragement as well. It is appreciated.

Scott

Now you have a feature that Vegas users only dream about - multiple timelines (Movies) in a project.

@browj2 As a user of Vegas and other consumer software I've never had reason to dream about such a feature. What purpose does it serve? On occasions that I've played with a MEP trial I tried the multiple timelines but couldn't see any use for them in my editing workflow. What do you use them for?

@ericlnz

As a user of Vegas and other consumer software I've never had reason to dream about such a feature. What purpose does it serve? On occasions that I've played with a MEP trial I tried the multiple timelines but couldn't see any use for them in my editing workflow. What do you use them for?

As JohnCB says:

"multiple timelines (Movies) in a project" with the emphasis on movies.

I find this quite handy when dealing with a large project/video file where you want to uses different parts for different movies/videos.

And, of course, it facilitates multi-movie DVD authoring.

Now you have a feature that Vegas users only dream about - multiple timelines (Movies) in a project. And much, much more.

@browj2 @ericlnz @AAProds

Vegas can run multiple instances simultaneously to simultaneously work on a parent/child nested project. That does pretty much everything multi-Timeline does. And this multi-Instance mode is more advanced because it can also have multi-preview, multi-FX-window, multi-media-bin, etc. There is also copy-paste interaction between different instances.

However, it also has the disadvantage of occupying more system resources. If you have many instances open, the system becomes rather sluggish.

@ericlnz

Hi Eric

. . . .  multiple timelines . . . . . What do you use them for? . . . .

In my case it was for creating multi movie discs using the MEP/MMS/VPX internal disc creation feature, before getting DVD Architect. There is a tutorial here.

John EB

Thanks @johnebaker I can see it's probably a left over from the days when most consumers exported their movies to disk. Nowadays few do, at least among my video friends.

@ericlnz

Hi.

There is still demand for it, at least in the UK where it it often used for Wedding photographers and videographers who will produce wedding Blu-rays / DVDs. They are still a favorite playback medium for the more mature audience rather than clogging up a hard drive and trying to find it again or having a hard drive failure. It is also a more secure transfer method for those that don't want their material uploaded onto the net.

Personally I prefer to hand over USB sticks but each to their own and clients should always have a choice.

I have never done a wedding professionally but do get asked by friends and family since my results were better than the 'photographer' at my nieces wedding. Saves on buying a gift. 😂😇😉 (I do also supply a full Wedding photo album).

Ray.

@ericlnz

Hi Eric,

As a user of Vegas and other consumer software I've never had reason to dream about such a feature. What purpose does it serve? On occasions that I've played with a MEP trial I tried the multiple timelines but couldn't see any use for them in my editing workflow. What do you use them for?

Good question!

I can see it's probably a left over from the days when most consumers exported their movies to disk. Nowadays few do, at least among my video friends.

I see that others have pitched in, but using multiple movies goes further and it is definitely not a leftover. As I said, many Vegas users would love this feature and have asked for it over the last few years that I have been following the Vegas Pro part of the forum. I haven't followed the Vegas Movie Studio much.

I rarely have a project that does not have more than one movie.

There are some differences in capability and use between MEP/MS and VPX that I'll address.

To start:

1. As mentioned by @johnebaker, the main purpose was for creating DVD/BR's with multiple movies, each having chapters (or not).

2. Splitting up a project into parts. I have had projects that got too long. I simply split the project by moving part to a second movie (or third, fourt), and then copying/pasting anything else that needed to be shared - intro, outro, titles, music, etc. I then continue completing each, often going back and forth between movies.

3. As per point 1, creating a large project that has different variations of the topic, but without necessarily ending up with a DVD/BR. Example: a camping trip during which we spent a couple of days with friends (and sometimes different friends) for different activities. I'll make one movie for the overall trip, and separate movies for the days with friends (one a walking tour, the other a wine tour). I'm doing the project, the material is all there, some will be shared, so I populate the movies at the same time and complete each within the same project, and not necessarily at the same time. Just export the movie that is finished, send, and keep on working or come back much later to complete other parts. At least everything is in one project.

Another example - a wedding - a short version, the life of the couple, the ceremony, the reception with a separate Movie for each, rather than a separate Project for each. I work on everything within one project with shared assets. Export (render) each movie separately or in a batch and/or create a DVD or BR.

4. As mentioned by @Nalmcruto, Vegas can run multiple instances but the load to the system can be great. MEP/MS/VPX cannot open multiple instances. Instead, you can open a second project, third, fourth... into a first project. One or more movies will be created for each project. These are now in the current project and the original imported project file does not get touched. Assets can then be copied/pasted to the main movie. When not needed, a movie can be removed from the project. So, for a multi-session project (aren't they all), your assets are already in your project; no need to open another instance each time.

5. Further to point 2, for those who are using old VHS, DV, 8mm/Super8 digitized files, they are usually in one or more large files with multiple topics. Import the file(s), do scene detection and split into separate objects. If there are multiple topics and since you're already reviewing the material, open a movie for each and move the objects to their associated movie. Export each and open them in their respective projects. You now have a head start on multiple projects in one go.

6. Further to point 5, a Movie can be exported to an MVD files, which is like a one-movie project. That Movie can be opened in another project or a new project. The original MVD file does not get touched unless you overwrite it deliberately.

7. Movies (MVD) files can be imported into a Project. The original file is not touched. So you could have started a project in one multi-movie file, decided to do it in its own project, export/import the Movie.

8. I have some templates with named and coloured tracks, intros, outros, etc. I often forget to start a project with a template, so I can open it in my project, move my content, delete the first movie, and continue on. If I want my template or a different template for a second movie, just open it and rename its Movie, and so on.

9. Trying out effects or something else: If I'm in a project and want to try something out that I might want to use (or not) but don't want to upset my main timeline, just open another Movie(s) and do it there. No need to close the project and open another one to do this. If you want to keep it for other use, export the Movie.

An example of something else: I sometimes have a series of photos in a project that I want add music to, cut to the beat, etc. An easy way is to put the photos in a separate Movie and use the SlideShow Wizard. Once happy, move the material to the main movie. This avoids affecting other parts of the main movie whilst creating that part.

Another one: trying out various collages. Best to try them in a separate movie.

And another one: using the Soundtrack Maker Wizard for part of the timeline. Best to try it out and make adjustments in a separate movie.

Note on Vegas: it doesn't come with content like audio files (songs and loops); its slideshow maker has no audio with it; there is no Soundtrack Maker.

10. Multi-language projects: I do some of my projects in franglais - so I need two versions, English and French. For just narration, one Movie is needed (mute one language, export, unmute and mute the other language, export, but if I also have text for each language, then I'll open a second Movie, copy in the first, change the text and add the narration for that language. I now have one project instead of two for the same topic with a Movie per language.

A note here, VPX has multi-language audio tracks that can be used to advantage for DVD/BR's. So, each movie can have more than one language but each movie is only present once on the DVD/BR; there are separate audio tracks. The language is selected like we have on commercial DVD/BR's. Of course, the text would have to be bilingual as there is only one version of each Movie.

11. Nesting - here is the one that Vegas users would like. In Vegas Pro, you can nest projects. However, the project is a separate project file and if you need to change something, you have to open that project and change it. In VPX, you use Movies for nesting, thus your material is all in one project. The Movie is treated as an object and dragged from the Project Temp Folder onto the timeline of a different Movie. If you need to change something, just switch to the associated Movie, make the change, go back to your main Movie, and the change has been done. Another advantage is that you can import the project(s) that you want to nest, modify it for use in the current project, and the original is not touched. The variant is now kept with its main project. The variant Movie can also be exported for use elsewhere.

Some variations on Point 5.

In MEP/MS, you can save trimmed parts as Takes to be used in other projects. I find this labourious and unnecessary as you may as well start your project as a separate Movie since you're already looking at it.

In VPX, you cannot save Takes. You use the Project Temp Folder, which is like a bin. Create separate virtual folders and put the material in its respective folder. Nothing needs to be on the timeline at the end. You can change the name of the object in the PTF, add a description, scene and take code. Export the PTF and import it into multiple projects/movies and just use the material from the pertinent folder, already cut and trimmed, Remove unnecessary folders from that project.

I probably forgot a few uses, but I think you get the idea of the usefulness of multiple movies and more.

John CB

There is still demand for it, at least in the UK where it it often used for Wedding photographers and videographers who will produce wedding Blu-rays / DVDs.

@CubeAce I gather from posts on various forums that the sale of discs was how many wedding photographers made it pay!

@browj2 Thanks for your detailed reply. Being a consumer video maker who only makes a few short videos a year I don't run into the situations you describe. I rarely go over ten minutes. Most are around 6-8 minutes. But thanks again for the effort you put into your reply.

Great job there @browj2!