Thanks for the comprehensive response, and also, for the feedback. Silly of me not to provide proper informations.

Here are the system specs more thoroughly: Windows 11 Home, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10510U CPU @ 1.80GHz   2.30 GHz 16 Gt, Intel(R) UHD Graphics, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 with Max-Q Design.

I have contacted Magix support, does it usually send a confirmation email etc. to say that the mail has come through? I did not get any feedback that my contact was "succesful". And it's been like 5-6 days now.

Thanks again,

-Sami

@Former user

Hi.

Thanks for the additional system specifications.

I am going to ask @johnebaker for his thoughts on this as well but my initial thoughts are your system is going to struggle with editing 4K content.

The i7-10510U CPU is a mobile chip which means your nvidia card is the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050M which as far as I know doesn't cope with video resolutions well beyond 2560x1440 pixels and then I'm not sure at what maximum frame rate that would be, which would explain the need to produce proxy files to produce a smooth playback.

The proxy files as far as I can make out produce one video and one audio file at lower resolutions. In the case of 4K video it seems like an avi file at 960 x 540 pixels is produced and the sound file is made into a PCM wav file at 16 bits 48kHz.

Have you tried importing video files one at a time with the program set to create proxy files on importing to the project? So far doing that has never failed for me.

As for Magix replying to Inquiries. They used to be quite good but recently not so much in my experience. I have an outstanding inquiry of over two weeks now.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Have you tried importing video files one at a time with the program set to create proxy files on importing to the project? So far doing that has never failed for me.

Ray, you need to be using MMS 2023 to make any comment on this. MEP 2021 has no trouble with proxy imports, together or separately. MMS 2023 botches it every time, regardless of what way you do it.

And a proxy file "belongs" to a particular project. You cannot use a proxy file in another project; in fact, even though it is a plain old MXV (and WAV), you cannot even see those files in Import window.

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Ray, you need to be using MMS 2023 to make any comment on this. MEP 2021 has no trouble with proxy imports, together or separately. MMS 2023 botches it every time, regardless of what way you do it.

True I don't have MMS 2023 but I was hoping to find out if anyone else would pop into the thread to say they don't have problems. I know you have problems but your system also doesn't really meet the requirements for trouble free usage of the program running at these resolutions so I'm hoping someone that has a system that should cope easily can verify the findings.

And a proxy file "belongs" to a particular project. You cannot use a proxy file in another project; in fact, even though it is a plain old MXV (and WAV), you cannot even see those files in Import window.

Where did I say or imply that? I was purely showing the effect of creating proxy files and how the relative size and ease of reading that data on those files would result in less strain on a given system and the resolutions of such files are within the specs of being handled by the nvidia 1050.

Ray.

Hi guys,

So I went and upgraded my laptop and on the same time, I got the Movie Pro X14 program.

I was pretty hopefull that my new setup would process these clips like butter, but apparently, I was completely wrong...

My new notebook is: Asus Rog Flow X13 with AMD Ryzen 9 6900HS and NVIDIA RTX 3050 Ti laptop GPU. For some reason, this setup runs the clips on the project smoothly through the whole project, but when I start to make changes, the more I do, the more laggier it gets. I am using "reduce resolution" option for these 4k clips while editing.

I also thought that this setup would manage 5.3k resolution (playback only) just fine, but once again I was wrong.

So my question is, what kind of monster machine would I need to edit these 4k videos without lagging?

I read somewhere that RAM might be the problem, new laptop has 16Gt, aswell as the old one did.. So I did not know that RAM is (might be? not sure..) so crucial to video editing. *EDIT, this laptop has 32Gb of RAM*

Proxy problem is still the same so there´s no help from there either..

Or is it just that the program sucks?... They advertise the ProX14 to be "very efficient" video editing software but I have the same problems than with the previous laptop setup and the other Magix version....

What are my options? This is really burning my nerves and I need to consider returning the laptop....

@Former user

Hi.

Although the NVIDIA RTX 3050 Ti mobile chip is relatively new, it is not even as powerful processing wise as the Nvidia 1650 Super desktop chip and my system just about keeps up with some additional effects per clip at 4K with the additional aid of an Inboard Intel GPU without using proxy files.

To see what type of laptop copes with 4K editing, look at @johnebaker's Signature. Really you would need an Intel based laptop or a top of the line Ryzen based system with a really powerful dedicated graphics card. Preferably nvidia and something that has a wider than 128 bit bus and 4GBs of vram. You have to pick a laptop where both the inboard GPU and graphics card can both be enabled in the bios.

Ray.

Thanks @CubeAce

I think this explains how newbie I am regarding 4k video editing.. Thank you for the comprehensive answer. I really appreciate your effort and time for writing that.

Well, I continue to explore my options... Thanks again.

Best,

-Sami

@Former user

No problem.

The whole video editing at higher resolutions and bit depths is a minefield for equipment compatibility problems and the main topic of complaints on most video editing forums. Second seems to be file type compatibility.

Cameras have dedicated processing chips and preprogrammed settings baked into the hardware.

Editing programs on the other hand, especially in the PC world have to be able to handle a wider amount of formats and then manipulate what is to all intents and purposes a baked in profile without destroying the quality and then re-render that to a finished file. You can have two cameras recording the same resolution but one file will have two to three times the amount of bits (or more) of information in the file. May use a different codec wrapper that is tweaked by that manufacturer to suit their image processors or AI.

The funny thing is (as in parculiar) more mega pixels do not necessarily make for a better quality image beyond sharpness. Often noise increases more quickly the higher the ISO value used as the individual photo-sites can't capture enough light in time to get accurate measurements of light within the frames exposure time.

Most video creators using higher resolutions than 4K are often doing it to edit down to a lower resolution so that cropping down to allow a scene to be zoomed into in post editing does not lose quality in the final cut.

Ray.

@CubeAce
Hahha yeah it's a bit of a jungle to navigate in😅

I think I'm gonna try to shoot my next videos with the GoPro setting for bitrate "standard" rather than high. Maybe that helps a bit since my RAM is just 16Gt.

Hopefully the Proxy problem gets solved soon though.

Thanks,

-Sami

@Former user

Hi.

What is the bit rate of your video files currently? My 4K files are between 100 to 110Mbs.

Ray.

@CubeAce
On the newest GoPro:s the High bitrate- setting is up to 120Mbs.

Here's some info on the Hero 11 Black that I found. This could explain the resource demand.

-Sami

Please translate into english. My text was too long for Google Translate in the online version

Hallo,

ich habe viele Tests mit unterschiedlichen Kamera Material gemacht.

Um für mich zu wissen, wann ich Material direkt mit XMedia Recode oder Handbrake umwandle und erst gar nicht das Original Material in ein Projekt importiere.

Wir sind insgesamt 5 User gewesen die das Material uns jeweils über Google Drive zu Verfügung gestellt haben. Wir hatten alle die gleichen auftretenden Probleme.

Des weiteren hatten wir Demo Material von einigen Technik YouTuber, die Material ebenfalls im Original über Online Speicher zu Verfügung stellten.

Sowie Material von Portalen wie DKamera.de und User des Forums von dpreview.com.

Das Ergebnis ist folgendes:

Magix in Version 2022/2023 egal ob De Luxe oder PRO X hat grundsätzlich Probleme mit vielen Video Materialien im MOV Container.

Auflösungen ab 4096 X 2160 sind ebenfalls viel zu oft ein Problem.

Leistungseinbußen, selbst auf aktuellster Hardware, gibt es bei Auflösungen in sämtlichen zu Verfügung stehenden Codecs und Containern mit Aufnahmen, die mit Material in Auflösungen von 5,3K , 5,7K und 5,9K aufgenommen wurden.

Da hilft auch kein um konvertieren mit XMEDIA Recode oder Handbrake in einer dieser 5K/6K Auflösungen, sondern nur ein konvertieren in UHD mit 3840 X 2160.

Dann läuft es Butterweich. Ohne zu ruckeln und ohne Speicher Legs.

Von GoPro 11 Aufnahmen im neuen 8:7 Format ist total abzuraten.

Von Aufnahmen mit variabler Frame Rate brauchen wir erst gar nicht sprechen. Das ist ganz oft ein Totalausfall. Muss so gut wie immer in konstanter Framerate konvertiert werden.

Für Magix Video Software benutzt man am besten hauptsächlich den MP4 Container mit H264 / H265 (AVCHD/HEVC) Codex mit 4:2:0 in 8 Bit oder 10 Bit.

Mit Auflösungen wie

720 X 576

960 X 540

1280 X 720

1440 X 1080

1920 X 1080

2704 X 1520

3840 X 2160

MPEG2/M2TS in AVCHD ist natürlich auch kein Problem.

Und das alles mit Konstanter Framerate.

DIe Software muss unbedingt kompatibler zu Formaten im MOV Container und Aufnahmen mit Variabler Frame Rate werden.

5K / 6k HEVC sowie Intra Codex müssen optimiert werden.

Zu mindestens ein Import von 4:2:2 Material ohne zusätzlichen kauf eines Intra Codex muss gegeben sein.

Bei Konkurrenz Produkten ist das der Fall.

Sogar mit Shotcut geht das in der Portablen Version ohne etwas installieren zu müssen.

5,7K 4:2:2 im MOV Container ProRes 24 Bit Sound 48 KHZ kann ich ohne Probleme in Shotcut importieren.

Natürlich wird da nichts von Shotcut ruckelfrei im Vorschau Monitor wiedergegeben.

Ein Rätsel bleibt mir weiterhin, warum ich zwar mit MAGIX Video Deluxe, bis zu 3 UHD Files + 3 FHD Files ( Picture in Picture ) + TEXT + CHROMA Key Animation ruckelfrei abspielen kann, aber nicht 2 hintereinander folgende 5,7K Clips ( ohne Effekte ) oder einen 5,7K Clip mit einfachen Effekten wie Belichtung oder automatische Farbanpassung.

Dieses Material bringt Magix total ins Straucheln. Das macht dann keinen Spaß mehr wenn das Programm für jede Aktion mehrere Sekunden braucht bis es wieder reagiert.

Selbst mit einen 6000 Dollar PC kann man Auflösungen über 4096 X 2160 Pixel von verschiedenen Kameras ( Panasonic GH5, GH5II, S5, S5II, FUJI X-T4, XT5, H2S, GOPRO 11, DJI mit Intra-Codec ) nicht mehr anständig mit MAGIX VIDEO Software bearbeiten.

@Former user

It's not the highest bit rate we have seen on the forums. I think for me I saw someone post 520Mb/s once but they were definitely having problems. I can't really run any 10 bit (depth) files without performance problems which is getting into HDR territory and a whole other set of problems. One thing you can try which sometimes helps with juddery footage is reduce your monitor size within the program to half the default size.

Ray.

@CubeAce you can import 10bit with MMS2023? I know MEP2022 can't. VPX 12 no problem.

@Marc-Goder I don't have access to the camera/files you've listed to try. I do have GH6 HEVC UHD4K 10bit 420. The only software that I have that had no issues playing it back was Resolve Studio 18.

With a XAVC file with 235Mb/s bitrate, 4K, 59.94, 10bit 4:2:2, BT.709 color, VPX12 played it back smoothly.

As for playing video higher the 4K, well, with MEP2022 and VPX12, playing back this file on my computer spec'd in my sig, there was zero problems.

I would have attached a MediaInfo jpg, but there seems to be an error when I try and upload it. Oh well.

Here are the specs. HEVC, 80Mb/s, 7680x4320, 23.93fps, 4:2:0, 8bit.

@Reyfox

Hi.

No, 10bit files are strictly VPX but my system can't handle editing them easily regardless. They show up but don't play well let alone edit. That was with VPX 12. I haven't tried with 14. I doubt it is better.

Ray

@CubeAce do you use proxy files at all?

@Reyfox

My cameras do not make 10 bit files so I was only experimenting with donated files on the forums or downloadable example files from the net which weren't that reliable. It would be a fruitless exercise at this point as I couldn't accurately colour grade such material on 8 bit monitors anyway. Most example files seem extremely short, never really getting above a GB and often odd file types. At least the ones I found. Proxy files didn't help once I started to add any effects. For straight playback yes.

Ray.

@CubeAce thanks for the information. I've been shooting 10bit 4K for a while now. Especially on vacation. Monitor is 4K 10bit also. So you understand why 10bit editing is important.

I can understand having a separation in a software family, but other consumer editors have no problem editing 10bit 4K video, no problem.

@Reyfox

Maybe it is because of the way Magix renders colour internally as well as having to have the ability to edit 8K.

You do have a mighty powerful CPU GPU combination although Magix still talks more about Intel and nvidia in their machinations, in the manual and the website.

Ray.

Working with 10bit files in VPX12 is seamless. It's the same with consumer editors such as Pinnacle Studio and Videostudio Pro. I don't know about PowerDirector, but am sure they too support it. Why MMS doesn't is something that should be considered. These programs also edit 8K but only export to 4K.

Those that shoot 10bit or higher know that they won't be editing on "regular" computers and usually have computers that can work with that resolution knowing the demands that are put on the hardware in those additional color spaces and resolution.

Hello, I do the whole thing with the convert because I want to work without proxies.

@Reyfox

With a XAVC file with 235Mb/s bitrate, 4K, 59.94, 10bit 4:2:2, BT.709 color, VPX12 played it back smoothly.

I just did a short test with 8K material.

I can import the first original file but can not play it smoothly.

File Original:

I can play the converted file in 8K without restrictions.

File Convert:

This encourages me to believe that, at least when using NVidia graphics cards, it is important to adhere to the resolutions and profiles specified by Magix.

As I said, this does not work with 5.7K and 5.9K (16/9) video material from Panasonic and 5.3K (8/7) GoPro Hero 11. The converted files also do not run smoothly in these resolutions.

However, if the affected files are converted to 3840 X 2160, they run without any restrictions.

@Reyfox

All the video editor forums who had them (not all do) I visited during my research into such programs had more complaints about crashes and bugs than here at the time. A lot still do. The then somewhat less buggy looking program with an interface I personally found more intuitive in layout and still available not as a subscription, led me here. Having kept my eye on the computer requirements, most of the 'better' ones are at a similar required specification as here and it is the way the industry is going at present.

There has to be clear cut performance differences between the tiers of a given set suites. Magix has been refining this a lot over the past few years. I assume to produce a more clear cut upgrade path.

MMS 2023 does export to 8K and I believe the earlier version did as well. It just doesn't export 10 bit.

I'm not convinced about whether people shooting at 4K realise whether they are shooting 10 bit or not they just apply the highest preset. At present there is no smartphone I'm aware of that shoots 8K 10 bit but a lot of the higher end phones do at 4K. Apps for phones are quite basic so I'm not surprised when people look for a mainstream editing program.

Ray.