Quick workers there, @Former user. 👍

@AAProds Not when I was there, I slept on the beach tho so only saw them sat around drinking coffee outside the cafes. 😁

@AAProds @Former user @MME007

I knew the forum videos got re-encoded as my uploads always look worse quality wise when posted here but wasn't aware it changed the fps.

Good catch Al. It explains why my 50fps uploads look more stuttery than when they are uploaded.

Ray.

@CubeAce 

@AAProds @Former user @MME007

I knew the forum videos got re-encoded as my uploads always look worse quality wise when posted here but wasn't aware it changed the fps.

Good catch Al. It explains why my 50fps uploads look more stuttery than when they are uploaded.

Ray.

That's why i wrote this

In the past I've exported things at a higher frame rate to get smoothness in the motion but if that clip is then reimported to a 30p project some of that smoothness can be lost, I guess that is because frames are being discarded to fit 60p into a 30p project?

My thoughts are if you export at a high frame rate you get good smooth motion - yay! 🤸‍♂️ but if that clip is part of a bigger project does that mean the whole project would need to be 60p so that that added exported clip doesn't get it's frame rate reduced 

& partly why i had to ask what frame rate @AAProds vid was, It's interesting that on here to me my 60fps vid seems smoother than his 50fps., I wonder if that's because 60 divides into 30p better than 50 when uploaded?

@Former user

It's interesting that on here to me my 60fps vid seems smoother than his 50fps., I wonder if that's because 60 divides into 30p better than 50 when uploaded?

I suspect that is the case as exporting such a project from the editor also causes such problems although with one exception I have found so far. Some files from a few cameras seem to say the frame rate is 29.(whatever it is) but render more smoothly when 30 fps is chosen for export.

Ray.

@CubeAce These are clips from my phone which says 30 but you can see they're variable so they all different frame rates, I quite often just set the project to 30 & click 'Don't adjust' when dragging them in.

@Former user

Hi Gid

. . . . I thought shoddy workmanship when i saw it, ...Fixed. . . .

Now the drains dont' work properly! 😂

. . . . I wonder if that's because 60 divides into 30p better than 50 when uploaded . . . .

It is, it is also the reason you get 'poorer' sections of the export when mixing framerates, which are not multiples of the lowest, together, eg 30/60 or 25/50 is fine, however 25/30 or 30/50 may cause some 'judder' on the clips that are not the same, or a multiple, framerate of the export framerate.

In your case the VFR video does not appear to have a detrimental effect on your YT videos.

John EB

Thanks,

Here is the link to the original picture:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RWkGJIOumm9iPZc2QCUdUWKwkKfZism/view?usp=sharing

Sorry, I realized that I gave a wrong information. Actually, I'm first zooming into the picture to a height at 1800 px.

Here are the keyframe details:

Start:

End:

I made some tests in a separate video, with a duration of 5s and 8s. The problem is more evident on the 8s videos.
I changed the film parameter and export to 25, 30, 50 and 60 fps to compare.
Result at 25 fps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VIKqkMVj_qjS_mjLLj8iATQs3yHvYRYd/view?usp=sharing

Result at 30 fps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18ucboyCW0-s6r8Dqniv14YW1k_RnoANJ/view?usp=sharing

Result at 50 fps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cVzJCHGptpTZlUQTEC6uhD0FwEzbb4it/view?usp=sharing

Result at 60 fps

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WXWQZnik8aqEdGu3XjbVr48DxgtEz74k/view?usp=sharing

Look at the movement itself, jerky on 25 and 50 fps, smooth on 30 and 60 fps.

The 30 fps video looks better than the 50 fps! The movement is clearly smoother.

I agree that the 60 fps is the best, smooth movement and best image quality. Simply what is expected.

The conclusion is problematic for me as my rush videos are in all in 25 fps! Not sure that exporting 25 fps video in 60fps will give nice results...

What do you think about my conclusion and the way to manage it ?

Marc

@MME007

Hi

. . . . Look at the movement itself, jerky on 25 and 50 fps, smooth on 30 and 60 fps.. . . .

One thing to consider is the monitor refresh rate, by default it is usually 60Hz, ie it is the frequency at which an image sent to a display panel is refreshed and updated.

With 25 and 50 fps progressive video, and a monitor being refreshed at 60 times per second there is a sync mismatch, this is usually 'fixed' by frames being repeated in a given pulldown pattern, and depending on the pan speed, may result in some jerkiness being observed.

With 30 and 60fps progressive video there there is no 'pulldown' as such required.

Modern TVs give better handling of this issue - if your TV can play mp4 h.264 video files directly form USB stick, see what the result looks like on it.

John EB

@MME007

Odd but on my monitors only the 25 fps looks stuttery. The rest just increase slightly in sharpness during the pan.

I did play all of them at 1080p as the default is 360.

Maybe there is a difference in the way web browsers play back video. I'm using Firefox.

Ray.

Look at the movement itself, jerky on 25 and 50 fps, smooth on 30 and 60 fps.

@MME007 Yep same here when played in the Google Drive preview, Google Chrome, Dell SE3223Q 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840x2160) Monitor, 60Hz monitor

@MME007

It does indeed look like a screen refresh rate issue. Here are all the combinations on a YT playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-dhdjQ1_Yu0cV0TrbqR92uJ9lS9ApbVl

They all play as smooth as silk on my 200Hz LED TV, both from my network and from YT, the higher frame rate videos being sharper and just a tad smoother.

This has me thinking that for this sort of project, 60fps (or 59.94) is optimum. Mixing video into the project would be problematic unless it was 30/60...

@MME007 @Former user @AAProds @johnebaker

Well I know I have said this before but no-one is going to see exactly the same results down to both hardware choices and software setups. I'm fairly sure even Windows will behave better or worse on any given system assuming we are all on the same version of Windows and how Windows is set to run.

What about how the nvidia control panel settings are set up for starters?

Or the web browser settings?

We have to believe each one of us sees what we report seeing and even then there are some of us that may be more susceptible to seeing movement or lack of it than others.

One reason I don't record video with a camera at high frame rates all the time is due to the staccato effect it can have on frames of very fast moving content if I am not using an ND filter. Sometimes a small amount of movement blur within frames can be an advantage.

This has been an interesting exercise.

Ray.

I've found the preview play in the monitor is a good indication of what the export will look like. My preview of the 25fps version is noticeably jerkier than the 50fps version, with the 30 and 60 both pretty smooth. The exports were similar.

I did try exporting at 60fps, then bringing that MP4 back into a 29.97 movie, and the subsequent export at 29.97 was fine.

Thanks guys !

I put all four video on an USB stick, then on my TV, a recent small LG OLED, model 2022, max 100Hz.

They all show perfectly smooth movements !  Exactly what I was simply asking for. Nothing to do with what my computer displays! I'm really chocked about the difference, it's amazing.

Just the 25 fps isn't absolutely perfect in the sense that I can see all individual images but the movement is constant and smooth.  From 30 fps, I can't see it, it's fluid.  

I've realized that none of you could see the problem that I was trying to show... It simply doesn't exist outside my screen!😀

Thanks to all of you, without your help I couldn't find it!

My video rushes are in 25 fps, so I'll output my video in 50fps.  I tested that my video rushes do support that re-encoding. (The first trial was crazy bad. A second trial gave a perfect result, no explanation...)

Can I improve the situation on my computer?

I've got a new "high-end" computer (see details at the very beginning of this post) but I didn't replace my former screen.

• Video card: Asus Proart RTX4070 OC (not the Ti version)
• Screen: Dell U2518D   2560x1440, 60Hz, DP 1.2, HDMI 1.4

I can't change the resolution in the driver: no other option than 60Hz
I also do not find any other parameter in the driver.  Could be that I'm not looking at the right place.

What would you recommend me to improve the situation?  I would like to correctly display my video also on my computer also, not just on the TV.
I saw some affordable screens at 100hz, twice my 50fps rate.  Do you think it would provide me the expected result?
Other parameters to try before?

At least, now I can invest time in editing my video knowing I'll be able to display those correctly. Without that, it was really demotivating...

Once more Thanks to all !

Marc

@MME007

Hi Marc.

TVs on average have a slower pixel response than that of monitors although some of the newer models are getting faster. As far as I'm aware it is unwise to change the refresh rate of a monitor from your graphics software.

Is your TV 4K or HD? if HD it has less pixels than your monitor so the frames have to travel across more pixels on your monitor than your TV. You are going to be more aware of movement problems on your monitor.

Try creating and exporting a project at a frame size that matches your monitor. See if that makes a difference. It may not be the refresh rate as much as the additional pixels travelled that are causing the visual difference.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

My TV is 4k and smoothly displays all four fps rates (25,30,50 and 60). All video being produced from the same still image.

My monitor ("QHD" 60Hz only) displays the 30 and 60 fps smoothly but 25 and 50 fps are jerky.

The issue is that staring from 25fps rushes, I only can choose between the native value of 25fps or double it to 50 fps. Any other choice will lead to additional issues. To avoid!

At least I've learned that I can watch my video on my TV and enjoy the quality in both 25 or 50 fps.😀

I would appreciate to correctly see my video while I'm editing it on my pc. If 50fps becomes my standard frame rate, I hope that a new monitor with 100 hz as native frame rate would give a good result. (30 fps are well displayed on my current 60Hz monitor.)

The offer is quite limited with that native frame rate of 100hz. The good thing is that those are not the most expensive monitors, around 200 EUR. I'm already clearly above my initial budget for my new pc... No evident decision.

Marc

Hi Marc.

When I said it is unwise to alter the refresh rate of a monitor I meant to try to push it above it's native refresh rate. You could try going lower but you may experience flickering on the monitor itself.

The refresh rate can be changed on this page.

I don't know if your current card supports the following but if it does have you activated it?

Whether using 50 or 60 fps the choice historically was down the mains supply frequency and its affect on then arc lighting which was more noticeable at 50 Hz than 60Hz.

With digital photography if you don't have a setting that looks at the cycling frequency of a TV or monitor, when you take a still the image on that TV can look wrong, often shifting towards a different spectrum. With incandescent lighting you can often get a green cast to an image as the shot is taken between the peaks of the cycles as the bulb cools between each peak. In video recordings if you have both LED and incandescent lighting in the same shot, one or the other will flicker.

Because monitors do not use sub pixels as well, unlike most TVs that do you may find that you need a higher refresh rate than the TV has.

If you game then you are more likely to notice motion stuttering than I am. We become more sensitive to what we are exposed to. 24 frames per second was originally picked at the time once a stable fps frame rate could be reliably performed for cinema because most people back then could barely see the individual frames changing at that time. TV later was restricted by the mains frequency of the country it broadcast in. Today with fast graphics cards and very high monitor refresh rates, those who game a lot will be able to pick out frame movement much higher. Some tests in the States have found it can be as high as 74 fps in some individuals.

TVs have their own processors that can be altered to smooth out motion. Monitors cannot.

What I'm trying to say is I'm hoping that choosing a higher refresh rate monitor will work for you but I fear there is no guarantee.

When I worked in film, because of my daily exposure of looking for negative or print faults I could not for a long time after watch film or TV without seeing every little imperfection. Even now a lot of CGI effects make me cringe.

Personally I would wait until the rest of your system is completed and tried with your current monitor. That may be enough.

Ray.

@MME007

Hi

Marc

. . . . My monitor ("QHD" 60Hz only) . . . .

What make/model is this?

John EB

Hi John,

it is a Dell U2528D from 2019.

Marc

Typing mistake Dell U2518D

@MME007

Hi Marc

Does the monitor have a vertical frequency (refresh rate) setting of 75Hz ?

John EB