@amaethu

Hi Jane.

If you do download the free MediaInfo tool and use that to look at one of the offending files and post the results here. similar to what you see in the other posts, we can make sure that is the problem. So far I don't think we have seen the data a file from a Zoom recording produces but I'm betting it is the problem. If you can't alter Zoom settings then a clunky but eventually less work solution would be to use OBS Studio to record the Zoom meetings. Then I can post how to change the OBS settings to work with MEP via some screen grabs or you can look at that on the other posts I put up earlier. Your laptop should easily cope with those two programs running at once. It's not ideal but a usable workaround. I have found OBS to be quite light on my system in use recording me using MEP and zoom should be a much lighter load to share resources with. I think some here may object to that solution. I will wait and see 😇

Ray.

Done that Ray, and got this. Does that do it?

Complete name                            : C:\Users\User\Videos\WRFFC\2020-11-16 08.11.58 CGFFfC20 - WRFFC20 85945750777\Monday all day WRFFC.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 5.68 GiB
Duration                                 : 9 h 29 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 1 427 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11

@amaethu

Hi Jane.

That looks good but we need the whole data from the file that looks more like this. That is taken from the Text View in MediaInfo that is easy to copy and paste.

General
Complete name                            : H:\2019 Steam and Transport CHD\Sunday\Video\DJI_0676.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : JVT
Codec ID                                 : avc1 (avc1/isom)
File size                                : 264 MiB
Duration                                 : 27 s 584 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 80.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-04-22 08:43:22
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-04-22 08:43:22
Comment                                  : DE=None, Type=Normal, HQ=Normal, Mode=P
gpt                                      : +0.20
gyw                                      : -1.90
grl                                      : +0.00

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 27 s 578 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 80.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.644
Stream size                              : 263 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : DJI.AVC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-04-22 08:43:22
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-04-22 08:43:22
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 27 s 584 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 638 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : DJI.AAC
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2019-04-22 08:43:22
Tagged date                              : UTC 2019-04-22 08:43:22

Other
Type                                     : meta
Duration                                 : 1 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Default                                  : No

Ray.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\User\Videos\WRFFC\2020-11-16 08.11.58 CGFFfC20 - WRFFC20 85945750777\Monday all day WRFFC.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 5.68 GiB
Duration                                 : 9 h 29 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 1 427 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5
Format settings                          : CABAC / 11 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 11 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 9 h 29 min
Bit rate                                 : 1 299 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.025
Stream size                              : 5.17 GiB (91%)
Title                                    : H.264/AVC video
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 9 h 29 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 126 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 168 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel layout                           : C
Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 514 MiB (9%)
Title                                    : AAC audio
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-11-18 05:07:11

@amaethu

Hi Jane.

That was quick 😁.

Good news is it is not a variable frame rate file. Bad news is I can't see a GOP structure meaning it is probably open. That also seems to cause audio drift but no idea why if the file is constant frame rate. The GOP structure is important in as much as it helps keep the audio from drifting. That is normally done by the program putting in reference frames at regular intervals which is determined by the GOP structure length. In this instance it should be every 25 frames to match the frame rate of the file but doesn't appear to be.

If you look at my data file I posted earlier you will notice this line.

Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30

That line is missing from your file and in this instance is probably the cause of the audio drift.

Notice I'm using words like 'probably' and phrases like 'seems to'.

This is because I'm at the limit of what I know. I'm not a coder but this is what we observe happening when these things do not seem to line up in the file information.

I think we now both need additional help from the other contributors here.

I have no knowledge of zoom or if it's settings can be altered for future recording so anyone looking, that would be helpful to Jane.

Second, I have no idea if Handbrake or a similar program can alter this file to work within MEP. Any ideas?

Jane.

I have one thought that may work. I'm not sure of this but will brilliant if it does work.

In MEP when you import the file, try right clicking the video section of it. That should bring up a list. At the top of that list you will see 'Create a new Frame table'. left click that and it may stop the audio from drifting. It may not. Then try a straight export of the file to see if it works.

If there is no way to fix this within Zoom you may have to use a second screen recorder to record future zoom sessions if you need to edit them as I suggested earlier.

Sorry about all this faffing about.

Ray.

@CubeAce, @amaethu, @browj2, @AAProds, @johnebaker

For comparison here's a test I just made. It plays normally in MEPP 2016 and 2017 and other players.

BTW, is the code tool working OK? My paste into the code box below is not rendered correctly. Pasted into NotePad it's fine. EDIT: It was bad when composing (and viewing right now!), but looks OK after sending.
I'll leave it as a trivial puzzle.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\terry\Documents\zoom\79900096202\zoom_0.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 8.08 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 40 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 675 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-12-17 10:38:40
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-12-17 10:38:40Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5
Format settings                          : CABAC / 11 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 11 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 40 s
Bit rate                                 : 620 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 666 pixels
Height                                   : 1 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.436
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.013
Stream size                              : 7.42 MiB (92%)
Title                                    : H.264/AVC video
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-12-17 10:38:40
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-12-17 10:38:40
Codec configuration box                  : avcCAudio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 1 min 40 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 53.3 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 114 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel layout                           : C
Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 653 KiB (8%)
Title                                    : AAC audio
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-12-17 10:38:40
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-12-17 10:38:40

I'm late to the thread, but on the original subject topic, 'Window Menu', it sounds as if you're content to live with the current status? But if not, and you or others have exhausted the usual methods in vain, then I have a somewhat involved but robust approach I've used for many years. I won't get into it in detail as I suspect my issues are unique, as:
1. I never use MEPP at full screen
2. I need permanent positions and sizes of all panes, so that my scores of Macro Express Pro scripts work OK.
3. F9 can never restore my layout without subsequent adjustments - often tedious and sometimes in vain.
Anyway it would obviously warrant a fresh thread ;-)

Terry

@amaethu, @CubeAce

Hi

From the MediaInfo information Audio section:

Sampling rate                            : 32.0 kHz

MEP expects video to be 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz sample rate - this alone may be the cause of the audio sync issue.

Running the video through a video converter to correct the audio samplerate to 48kHz (preferred) may fix the sync issue.

There are some other details which may lead to other issues or significant slow down when editing

1. File size                                : 5.68 GiB
2. Bit rate                                 : 1 299 kb/s
3. Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
   Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
4. Reference frames        : 11 frames
5. Duration                                 : 9 h 29 min

The combination of the video being highly compressed, and the high number of reference frames (the video requires more memory usage) and the duration, while not reaching the limit of MEP (approx 12hrs at 25 fps), is going to put a significant load on the computer.

I would suggest you save regularly (every few minutes) while working on this project.

John EB

@terrypin @johnebaker @amaethu

Hi John.

Thank you for the additional input.

I was so hung up on the possibility of a VFR or GOP structure problem common to most of the other screen recorder problems we see I completely missed those other variations from the norm.

They are quite large and glaring in hindsight as well.

Thankfully many heads are better than one.

That file would tax any system on duration alone for audio drift. The audio sampling rate definitely needs to be changed and as you say 5.6GB is not a huge file size for such a long duration. I think 2GB roughly per hour may be better?

So the questions remain.

Would any conversion of that file in Handbrake help?

For future use is anyone else using Zoom and know the if the setup can be altered?

If not, is my suggestion of using a second screen recorder to record the Zoom sessions a stupid one?

Ray.

thank you everyone. I am still not clear what to actually do though. And what I keep coming back to is, on my old laptop with the same file and an earlier version of MEP I had no problem with audio sync and I could eventually save my one-hour sessions. I wonder if I can just go back to that earlier version somehow, but it feels better to march onwards.

@terrypin my customized layout is close to what I had before, and I've saved it so I can get it back with F10 at any time. So am closing that ticket. On to worse problems!

@CubeAce I just tried 'new frame table' and got 'sorry, internal error' and a few lines of maths.

@amaethu @johnebaker @terrypin

Hi Jane.

A one hour session should not be a problem at all resource wise but the audio may still drift due to the GOP structure being so long, and the audio sample rate and the overall bit rate of the recording being a bit low. The last one only really effecting the quality of the image being initially recorded.

The info in the file you supplied gave a running time value of 9 hrs 29 min which MEP would find very taxing. A one hour or even two hour file would not be anywhere near as bad.

What needs to be changed in the Zoom settings if possible is the bit rate which needs to be more if you want a better quality image. The audio sampling frequency of 32kHz needs changing to either 44kHz or 48kHz as those are more native video specifications for audio. MEP and most other video editors will not work at 32kHz correctly. and that GOP reference frame number needs to be recording at a 25 value and not probably 0 which is causing the 'Reference frames        : 11 frames' to appear in the data of the file. In my opinion they all need to be altered to ensure a smooth editing experience.

If that can't be done then if it were me I'd try my suggestion of downloading OBS Studio and recording the sessions with that. It's not a large download and on my system at least doesn't hog computer resources.

At least no-one has pooh-poohed that idea yet. 😅

The settings you would need to change in OBS Studio to ensure compatible, editable files for MEP are in my images below. Nothing else should need changing.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I admire the way you have kept up with us and each of your replies made complete sense with relevant reply questions that have showed a good grasp of the information given in our replies. I think at this point a lot of other people would have given up. I'm sure we can get something up and running for you that in the long term will be less work and a smoother and faster future work flow for you.

Let us know how it goes.

If you really want to go back to your earlier version of MEP let us know which one it was. It may be possible but if it was the 2020 version you may still find the odd problem.

Ray.

@amaethu, @CubeAce

Hi

. . . . I just tried 'new frame table' and got 'sorry, internal error' . . . .

I was told by Magix several years ago that this should only be used for MPG video, using it on other video formats can cause issues.

Re the Zoom recording - AfAICs there are very few settings for the Zoom recording option and I have found several articles which say for best quality use a 3rd party screen capture software.

John EB

@johnebaker, @CubeAce, @amaethu

As mentioned, the zoom recording whose MediaInfo data I posted earlier played OK in MEPP 2016 and MEPP 2017. It had perfect audio to video syncing, albeit over the short length of my clip.

KISS: if you can get audio Stereo Mix working, use MEP's screen capture.

@johnebaker @terrypin @AAProds @amaethu

Hi John.

I wonder if that then is for the really old recordings. I had an old bridge camera I learnt the basics of photography on that used mpeg and the audio on that drifted on normal playback. I've used it on MP4 files once or twice with no warnings.

Hi Terry.

I'm sure something is not working correctly with the current Infusion Engine or maybe there has been a change in Direct X or the way the new graphics drivers are working with editing programs in general as other editing packages are also suffering. I found it interesting that on another thread here Derek gave the link to the nvidia site and nvidias' take on how to set up OBS Studio settings.and why. It's worth reading.

Hi Alwyn.

My recommendation of using OBS Studio over MEP is simply it is a lot lighter in use than MEP if one is considering using two applications at once.

Ray.

@CubeAce, @AAProds

Hi Ray, Alwyn

. . . .  on another thread here Derek gave the link to the nvidia site . . .

Do you mean AndyW (me_again) here?

. . . . My recommendation of using OBS Studio over MEP is simply it is a lot lighter in use . . . .

Interesting how we all disagree on this one - I would recommend neither - there are many dedicated screen recorders which are far lighter and do the job efficiently, some will also capture both monitors when using a dual setup as well.

. . . .  wonder if that then is for the really old recordings. I had an old bridge camera I learnt the basics of photography on that used mpeg and the audio on that drifted on normal playback. . . .

If do you have any old files to test?

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi, Yes. I did mean AndyW (and even while typing this I am thinking Derek?)

There is a lot of information in that link and a lot to digest if not to understand. I have bookmarked that page to try to understand more. It may take some time for me to get to grips with it, if indeed I can get to grips with it completely.

As I have had no need for screen recorders in the past and have very limited experience I would not contest your expertise in that area but are those paid for programs you prefer? If so are they worth the extra if the other free versions can do what is required? Even if you can record both screens at once how would you use the files After?

I have not lost a file since 1998 so there are files somewhere assuming I haven't deliberately deleted them. They would probably have come from my Kodak 7.1 MP bridge camera although feasibly from an earlier Canon 2.1 compact camera. They are files I have never really tried to edit but noticed a drift while playing, way back when. That was when I had an early AMD Athlon system and could have been a part of the problem. Our second serious computer built by Mesh computers and the last fully prebuilt machine I have ever had.

While those files looked reasonably mediocre on an SVGA Sony monitor I'd hate to think what they would look like now being 640 x 420 pixels if I remember correctly.

Ray.

@amaethu @johnebaker

...Interesting how we all disagree on this one - I would recommend neither - there are many dedicated screen recorders which are far lighter and do the job efficiently, some will also capture both monitors when using a dual setup as well...

OK John, time to step up and put your cards on the table: 😉 what screen-capture program would you recommend here for Jane to use?

thank you all. An update. I've found some free (for home use) video software, VideoPad from NCH, and I am using it to chop the 9 hour monster into 90 minute chunks for fine tuning in MEP. What is puzzling is that I could have sworn I saw a video/audio split in VideoPad too, yesterday, and yet today it seems to be OK. Is it perhaps a random thing?

When exporting, it sometimes gives me the option of variable frame rate. I say no to that.

Also, I did learn at that conference how to stop and start zoom recordings so that you get shorter files. I will look into screen capture or whatever you call it too, but really they do not need to be high quality. They just need to roughly illustrate what is being said without distractions from the lip synch.

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

. . . . OK John, time to step up and put your cards on the table . . . .

4 Aces and a deuce😂

I have mentioned what I use many times in the forum - ScreenCast-o-Matic (desktop version paid for) - this one captures in 2 stages - first stage the screen is captured to an relatively uncompressed intermediate format, the second stage after completion of recording the intermediate can be exported (published) to mp4.

The others I have used in the past - Camtasia - very good, though expensive, Snagit, and Debut (this would be my second choice).

There is also of course the screen recorder built into Windows 10 - Game Bar - basic but it works - WIndows key + G to start it.

Of course there are certain limitations with screen recorders in general eg the maximum recording time, one or both screens in a dual monitor setup, output formats, picture in picture (webcam) and of caourse the curse to many video editor - variable framerate - ScreenCast publishes to Constant framerate.

John EB

@amaethu

Hi Jane.

I'm afraid that if you do not use a separate screen capture program to record your Zoom meetings you are going to keep getting these audio sync problems. The audio is likely to go out of sync within 30 seconds of play. Not much at first but it will increase over time. It should be very noticeable within a minute or so when played back.

The file you found that is not chopped would be the original file. The chopped files would be newly created files (copies) as you can't just split a video or audio file or they would corrupt and not be playable. Maybe your files that are chopped have been placed in a new location?

Because that program is not a file convertor you may find the files you produce are still proportionally out of sync from the original file.If they aren't, Bonus!.

Ray.

@CubeAce I've just processed a couple of sessions from the 9 hour recording that are fine. Yes quite right I do not actually chop the recording, I make small files from it, then export from VideoPad and import to MEP. I could simply use VideoPad and cut MEP out altogether, for the simple edits I am doing, but I have got used to MEP now and better the devil you know.

Screen capture is a whole new thing for me so I am going to try it out, thanks for that tip. In fact I just recorded myself typing that last sentence with Windows G. How fascinating - you learn something new every day.