Why might I not be able to make keyframes for "Section" parameters?

browj2 wrote on 12/6/2016, 9:14 AM

Hi Mike,

As far as I know, you cannot keyframe a section, meaning that you can't change the shape or the location on the original image of the section that you took. The crop stays with the same proportions and at the same location that it was in the original image. You can only adjust the location and size of that window using Size/Position. It works as though you cropped an original photo with scissors; you can move it around and zoom in on it, but you can't uncut the original cropped area. It would be a nice feature to have.

To do what you want, you would have to use an alpha mask and resize and position it and the underlying video.

Here are a couple of screen shots. I used 2 video. Both the mask and the video on track 3 that shows up in the mask box were kf'd. I used zoom and free proportions on the mask to change the shape. I kf'd the video on track 3 to have the dog's head follow the mask.

You can see in the shot below that the mask shape change proportions.

Recycler wrote on 12/6/2016, 9:24 AM

John, as always a great reply. Many thanks.

- Mike -

browj2 wrote on 12/6/2016, 9:31 AM

Hi Mike,

My pleasure. It was an interesting question.

Scenestealer wrote on 12/6/2016, 6:32 PM

Actually you can do it without using masks. The trick is to apply the "Section" effect then apply a "Movement Template", in your case Mike a Left to Right pan, and then go to the "Camera Movement/Zoom" effect window and the KFramer becomes accessible. There are no controls in this window to change the movement parameters but by making sure the KF line and nodes are visible (click eye symbol) on the Timeline object you can move the nodes to achieve your repositioning with a left click and drag.

I just worked this out from a recent post on the German Forum by Bilder Macher aka Frame Maker who was answering a members question about getting rid of a zoom in a Template see: http://www.magix.info/uk/einfache-uebergangseffekte.knowledge.1182133.html

Peter

Recycler wrote on 12/7/2016, 2:55 AM

Thanks Peter - that's a useful technique that I've made a note of. Unfortunately I don't think it actually helps with what I was trying to do. As always, this was because I phrased the question without sufficient rigour - sorry!

As well as moving the section between KFs A & B, I also want to change the width and left reference point of the section between A & B (at A section width = 1920 and section position left = 0, and at B section width = 200 and section position left = 734). The moving I think I can do, it's the section changes that stump me!

I've worked around the issue by doing another effect instead, but it would be nice to have the option to KF section parameters.

- Mike -

browj2 wrote on 12/7/2016, 11:22 AM

Hi Guys,

My understanding is that the shape of the section is to change from full size to narrow with the narrow portion being a section near the middle, and then that section moves to the right. See below. Using MEP2016 Premium.

1. Full screen image

2. Transition to section

3. Move to the right (this is the easy part)

I cannot see how to go from the full screen image to the section without masks. Section does not allow for any kf's.

Nor can I see any way to go from one section shape and location within the image, see 4 below, to a different section shape and location within the image, from 2 to 4.

I looked at the image from Bilder Macher and the version of MEP is old, 16, not 2016, and I see more commands than we have. I don't know what these were.

So, Peter, how can this be done without masking?

I also looked at Walter's tutorial, thanks for the link, and was playing with the X and Y kf's. Changing them independently on the curve distorts the image. Interesting. I had never done that before.

As for the Movement Effect, Left to Right, can you both check this because for me the image moves to the left, not the right.

OT, in looking at Walter's tutorial and using VPX8 on my Surface Pro, I tried out a mirror image. I first zoomed out the image to reduce the size and reposition it, copied it from track 1 to 3, and applied vertical mirror image to track 3. Bang! I get the following message:

Tried the same thing on my desktop and got the same message. Tried it in MEP2016, no problem. I often get this message in VPX on both machines. I'll post this in the Forum. It's most annoying, especially since I can no longer see what is happening; the preview monitor goes black.

Scenestealer wrote on 12/7/2016, 5:09 PM

Hi Guys

Sorry, for gaining the wrong conclusion from your posts. It is partly because I initially couldn't see the way to animate the position of the crop that I thought that this is what you meant. But of course it is not possible to change the area of the section with an animation. Seems a strange admission on Magix behalf however, but it maybe that this would conflict with the Camera Zoom (Ken Burns) effect or something.

Well spotted that BilderMachers screen shot was in fact MEP16 and after reinstalling same ( for some reason these older versions come up with an error code 6 saying the installation is corrupt?) I can see that extra sub window is there which appears to be a reset for the camera movement/zoom part of the crop effect. Had a play but no luck there for a possibility to change section area dynamically. Did see a warning that said "to move a picture section, the proportions of the section must match the movie settings" but couldn't detect an improvement in our problem.

The Left and Right movement confusion may well be that the term relates to an camera pan ie the camera pans left so the subject moves right. It appears to be the same in all versions.

The Hardware acceleration deactivation message seems to be cropping up a bit of late in other parts of the forum and may be something to do with the extra processing bit depth in the recent update of the video engine, pushing the GPU harder. Have you tried changing the Display Options > timeline preview setting to VFW Compatibility mode?

Peter

Recycler wrote on 12/11/2016, 12:06 PM

Thanks both for looking at this. Maybe "Section" can't be KF'ed because it has dependencies on and from other effects and if KF-ing were allowed the whole pack of cards would fall over!

If anyone is interested, what I had in mind to achieve was to transition smoothly from A to B in the attached composite screenshot. In A, the organist is seen in full wide screen playing an overture before a silent movie starts; as the overture draws to a close the sides would come in (via Section KF-ing), at the same time as the changing section moves over to the right ready for the film to take up the rest of the frame. The cropped organist and the film would then run side by side.

browj2 wrote on 12/11/2016, 3:52 PM

Hi Mike,

Looking at that, I can't see any need for a section or a mask. With A on track 1 and B on track 3, you simply start sliding in B from the left and when it gets to the organist (A), put a kf on A to start and then move along the timeline a couple of seconds, drag A to the right until the right side of the organist is at the right edge and zoom in a bit - a kf will be placed there. Leave the playback marker where it is and cilck on B. Drag B toward the right until the right edge is to the left of the organist. A kf will be placed at the playback marker so that the two videos stop at the same time. Finished.

Is this the result that you wanted? Ignore the singing.

Here is a screen shot. I used VPX for this, but it's the same in MEP.

BTW, I used Mercalli V4 on the dog video. No watermark appears. Must be an advantage of VPX over MEP in that Mercalli V4 that came with VPX7, still works fine in VPX8. Or maybe I'm just lucky.

Edit: I just looked at the image after saving this and it seems that this new version of the forum keeps a higher resolution than before. Much better!

Scenestealer wrote on 12/11/2016, 5:45 PM

Hi guys

Looking at that, I can't see any need for a section or a mask.

Good point John, but the requirements seem to have changed Mike from your original desire to keep the section full height (which I think looks better BTW). So all that's needed is animation of both clips on the x axis and the section will be created on the left boundary by where the lower clip stops, and on the right side by the edge of the monitor and where the upper clip stops.

John - I also noticed the big improvement in the uploaded images' res but was not sure if that was just because I had to update my old IE version in Vista to Firefox. Loading seems quite snappy too. I hope the naysayers take note.

Peter

browj2 wrote on 12/11/2016, 6:08 PM

Hi Peter,

I zoomed in the musician part to be less than full height because that is what Mike shows. I agree that it would look better full height, but in Mike's case, to keep the organist full height would require a bit more width, which would take away from the movie part. A section should not be need except maybe on B to lop off some of the right side rather than hiding the leftover left side.

Uploading and loading seem to be much quicker in this new version. There are some problems and missing elements that need to be addressed, but overall I think that it is a big improvement. Getting to the Followed items is a bit cumbersome, and there is no indication as to which Media is the one to look at. Of course, one can just click on the link in the email.

John

Scenestealer wrote on 12/11/2016, 6:56 PM

Hi John

Mike's original post said he wanted to crop=section at full height and move right, and did not mention a zoom on either clip so that is what I was basing my method on. Because the bottom picture ends up cropping/overwriting the top picture you I end up with a section showing without applying a "Section" effect, how much shows of each clip throughout, depends on the respective velocities and end points of the x axis animation of each clip. Of course if you then decided you want to see more of both clips then the only option is to resize each one with a zoom.

I am still finding my way around the new Magix info but it looks like they have covered most bases.

Peter

Recycler wrote on 12/14/2016, 8:27 AM

John, Peter:

First, sorry for my radio silence while you've been so active on my behalf. This time of the year is my "silly season", and I've been out recording plays and concerts over the last few days without a break.

Thank you both very much for your various thoughts. This has been a prime example of that phenomenon (I'm sure there's a scientific name for it) where I got locked into an unsuccessful way of doing things and simply could not think out of the box to imagine the (simpler) solutions you've come up with.

When I get back to finishing the organist job I will indeed use your two solution!

With best wishes = Mike =

Scenestealer wrote on 12/15/2016, 12:52 AM

My pleasure to help with an interesting question Mike. Keep up the good work and all the best for the season.

Peter