Why is this software so unreliable?

Sunfox wrote on 6/16/2022, 12:19 PM

First, let me state that I'm a long-time user of Vegas Pro and have ZERO issues with the functionality/stability of that program or any other on my system. But, with YouTube being what it is, I wanted to have the ability to whip up simple music cues, and as a non-musician I purchased Music Maker Premium last summer figuring it would be a great way to do just that. Functionally, I have issues but it's overall fine. My problem is just getting the program to work in the first place.

Originally, last summer, I had an absolute nightmare with the program but figured that was because I was trying to run it on Windows 7. Well, in December I built a new 12th gen Windows 11 system, and shockingly all my issues continued on an entirely new and unrelated computer (nothing was transferred).

First, just starting it up, it randomly takes 30 seconds or more to automatically log me in. The issue is, until this happens, it considers itself the "free" version, and I cannot load any project more complex than what's allowed in the free version. Sometimes I'm sitting there twiddling my thumbs for a full minute before it suddenly realizes I OWN THE SOFTWARE. Why is THAT not the default action? Why does it not default to knowing my purchase status, since it's obviously capable of storing an encrypted key saying I DO own it? When the internet goes down, it usually becomes totally useless! But not always, which is weird.

Second, the audio drivers are buggy as hell. I use the Magix Low Latency (since most of the other options do NOT work right - like playing back at the wrong pitch or just not making any sound), and I prey every time that I start it up and first press the "play" button that when the cursor hangs at 2 seconds, sound will actually come out in a second and it just won't just hang permanently. And if I accidentally press the Recording Options buttons - OMG OMG OMG the driver keeps resetting itself and usually hangs or just doesn't seem to want to make sound after that, and it's time to reboot to get it to work again.

Third, so long as the program doesn't crash, if it starts off working it will continue working fine for hours and hours. But, when the program does crash - and it happens at least once a day when I'm working - it crashes hard. It ends up with a stuck process that CANNOT be killed by any means - and I've gone to extremes with process killing utilities to try to do this. And that's because if I try to start it again with the prior hung process still running, it complains that things won't work right as a second copy. But even worse, if I don't care about that, it WILL NOT log in and acknowledge that I'm using the premium version until that original process dies. And sometimes it WILL disappear on its own after 10 or 15 minutes. Otherwise, I have to reboot to continue working.

Forth, maybe it's because I'm at a higher DPI scaling, but visual representations of MIDI files in the editing workspace do NOT match the time scale. So when the cursor is playing over a MIDI file, the notes do NOT match what's being played, it's all out of sync. The main MIDI editing window is fine, and representations of waveforms are also fine. But the "ticker tape" of MIDI files is not scaled correctly and is this useless and very disorienting.

I think the only bug I've seen disappear is the one where exiting causes the program to just start right back up again. I had that on both Windows 7 and 11, but it doesn't seem to be happening since the last couple updates. I also used to frequently have an issue where it would suddenly refuse to load a file - even though the file is fine. I discovered that if I renamed it to something else entirely it would load okay, but with the original name there must have been something cached that was preventing it from working - but I've only had that once on Windows 11, and not recently.

Comments

SP. wrote on 6/16/2022, 1:12 PM

@Sunfox

Why does it not default to knowing my purchase status, since it's obviously capable of storing an encrypted key saying I DO own it?

It's the way Magix wants the software to work. If I remember it correctly the program worked the way you want it to work until version 2017. But then they changed it to an online-DRM system. You are correct, if the Internet goes down and the user cannot login, it will only work with the basic features. But then you also cannot upload your videos with music to YouTube. But there were two or three occasions where Magix servers were offline for multiple hours/ half a day. These are the critical cases in my opinion. Everything works only Music Maker doesn't. If you need a specific paid feature right then, you are basically screwed.

Second, the audio drivers are buggy as hell.

The drivers are all just some kind of emergency solution for users that don't have audio interfaces with ASIO drivers. All drivers work with the audio chipset on the mainboard of the computer (most mainboards have a Realtek audio chipset) and these chipsets are just plain horrible for audio production.

when the program does crash - and it happens at least once a day when I'm working - it crashes hard

Yes, the problem is that Magix follows some kind of agile development style where they replace old parts of the program against new parts and release the program and updates before everything is finished. So they remove some features here (for example the configurable keyboard shortcuts), change some features there (replace parts of the user interface with a new framework), which makes everything really unstable. But they probably are rewriting the whole application from scratch to get rid of all old code dating back to the mid 1990s which would take years without releases. Instead of not releasing a new version for 8 years, they just release very buggy versions over 8 years.

For crashes and log in problems I recommend to clean the store cache and re-scan the Soundpools in the program settings or reset the program settings under the File > Settings menu.

 

I can only recommend, if you want a program with a workflow like Music Maker with better stability and more features and no always-online-DRM check out Samplitude Music Studio. The only thing missing in Music Studio is the Song Maker feature. Everything else is there and much more.

johnebaker wrote on 6/16/2022, 1:59 PM

@Sunfox

Hi

. . . . the audio drivers are buggy as hell. I use the Magix Low Latency (since most of the other options do NOT work right . . . .

The drivers used for Wave driver and Direct sound drivers are those supplied by Microsoft and /or the audio card/chipset manufacturers. If the Microsoft drivers are used, for some models of Realtek chipset I have found that they are not the full featured drivers, using Realteks own drivers gives all features and better sound quality (this is subjective).

. . . .  I OWN THE SOFTWARE . . . .

You have a licence to use the software on 2 computers, which the short delay at start up is checking. Similarly the soundpools are licenced for personal use only - they cannot be used commercially without purchasing a Commercial licence for each Soundpool used even then you do not own the soundpools nor have exclusive rights to them..

. . . . like playing back at the wrong pitch . . . .

if this is with mixing different bpm Soundpool loops or importing audio files which have a different bpm or detected bpm, this may be due to this setting being turned on.

. . . . It ends up with a stuck process that CANNOT be killed by any means . . . . and I've gone to extremes with process killing utilities . . . .

Windows has the means to end tasks in Task Manager - are you saying these do not work?

. . . . cursor is playing over a MIDI file, the notes do NOT match what's being played . . the "ticker tape" of MIDI files is not scaled correctly . . . .

There have been several users reporting a similar issue with offsets in panes, which are a result of working with 4K monitors and the Windows settings, System, Display, Scale being incorrectly set - it should be at 100% .

HTH

John EB
Forum Moderator

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Sunfox wrote on 6/16/2022, 2:52 PM

The drivers used for Wave driver and Direct sound drivers are those supplied by Microsoft and /or the audio card/chipset manufacturers. If the Microsoft drivers are used, for some models of Realtek chipset I have found that they are not the full featured drivers, using Realteks own drivers gives all features and better sound quality (this is subjective).

Using the "Magix Low Latency" driver, there's a pretty nasty delay the first time it's used where it may or may not work, but after that if it does work, so long as I don't mess about with audio settings, it's fine. Selecting the Realtek ASIO driver just automatically changes me to Wave driver. Both Wave and DirectSound have glitches (like when I start playing a song, I hear an initial note that shouldn't exist). Selecting WASAPI *sometimes* results in everything playing slow, or sometimes hangs and won't produce sound. Which of these options is best?

And yeah, I know onboard audio truly sucks, and this is the first time I've ever had to rely on it... but for now it's either the ALC4082 built into my motherboard or a very old Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium HD that doesn't have official Windows 10 or 11 drivers. Budget can't afford a new audio solution ATM - though I would very much appreciate recommendations for something that has great stable drivers for production.

You have a licence to use the software on 2 computers, which the short delay at start up is checking. Similarly the soundpools are licenced for personal use only - they cannot be used commercially without purchasing a Commercial licence for each Soundpool used even then you do not own the soundpools nor have exclusive rights to them..

The problem is the short delay is not always short. Waiting 30 seconds or a minute is not short. Right this second it's instant. Last night, it definitely was not. And waiting 15 minutes for a dead process to die before it'll log me in again is also not short. There really should be a grace period were the last validated state can be maintained for a time.

And so far I'm using VST instruments and raw MIDI notes, combined with some loop packs I already own.

if this is with mixing different bpm Soundpool loops or importing audio files which have a different bpm or detected bpm, this may be due to this setting being turned on.

Nah, this happens with everything - even VST instrument output. And it's only occasionally on SOME audio drivers.

. . . . It ends up with a stuck process that CANNOT be killed by any means . . . . and I've gone to extremes with process killing utilities . . . .

Windows has the means to end tasks in Task Manager - are you saying these do not work?

Indeed, this is correct. Trying to force end the task does not work. Nothing happens. Killing the process tree does nothing. I've installed Process Explorer which is supposed to be able to kill anything, and it can't do it either. Logging out of the user account also doesn't kill it.

. . . . cursor is playing over a MIDI file, the notes do NOT match what's being played . . the "ticker tape" of MIDI files is not scaled correctly . . . .

There have been several users reporting a similar issue with offsets in panes, which are a result of working with 4K monitors and the Windows settings, System, Display, Scale being incorrectly set - it should be at 100% .

Only, that's not an incorrect setting. That's an incorrect program handing of a Windows setting that has existed for DECADES (and yes, also been a problem for many "unaware" programs). With high DPI monitors and laptops, it now qualifies as a necessary system ability that's essentially an accessibility setting. I have *no* issues with any other major program on my system, including Vegas 19. Even ancient Office 2007 works great. MM appears to be PARTIALLY DPI aware, but not fully, which is the issue. If waveforms can be shown right, then there's little excuse for MIDI notes to be broken.

One final thing... why does MM insist on storing like 1000 temporary files in the My Documents directory, and then constantly deleting/recreating them? Even time I run this program OneDrive verifies that I really wanted to delete like 967 files. Those should be in the AppData directory.

johnebaker wrote on 6/17/2022, 3:49 AM

@Sunfox

Hi

Magix Low latency is the best option to use.

. . . . OneDrive . . . .

Are you using OneDrive to store Music Maker projects and all your other documents including any audio files you are adding to a project?

In Music Maker, Program settings, Folders tab is OneDrive the default location for Project file, Exports etc?

If so then this could be cause of many of the issues you are having.

Both Task Manager and Process Explorer not being able to kill a process may be due to an issue with the Windows installation, have you done a System check by running sfc /scannow (note the space) in a command prompt?

The temporary files are different support files needed by the program, the majority are probably the .H0 files which are the waveform display you see on audio and Soundpool loop objects on the timeline.

John EB

VPX 16, Movie Studio 2025, and earlier versions 2015 and 2016, Music Maker Premium 2024.

PC - running Windows 11 23H2 Professional on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16GB RAM, RTX 2060 6GB 192-bit GDDR6, 1 x 1Tb Sabrent NVME SSD (OS and programs), 2 x 4TB (Data) internal HDD + 1TB internal SSD (Work disc), + 6 ext backup HDDs.

Laptop - Lenovo Legion 5i Phantom - running Windows 11 23H2 on Intel Core i7-10750H, 16GB DDR4-SDRAM, 512GB SSD, 43.9 cm screen Full HD 1920 x 1080, Intel UHD 630 iGPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 (6GB GDDR6)

Sony FDR-AX53e Video camera, DJI Osmo Action 3 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Sunfox wrote on 6/17/2022, 11:55 AM

Are you using OneDrive to store Music Maker projects and all your other documents including any audio files you are adding to a project?

Technically, no. My local My Documents and the OneDrive My Documents are NOT linked (I only use OneDrive as a way to quickly share specific files amongst all my devices, including iOS). For some reason, MM chose by default to put its stuff in OneDrive, I did not alter this.

In Music Maker, Program settings, Folders tab is OneDrive the default location for Project file, Exports etc?

What's weird, is looking at the Folders screen (thanks for pointing it out), Projects are stored locally, Imports are stored on OneDrive, Exports locally, and Recordings on OneDrive. Huh? Why would it do that?

I'm assuming the one causing all those OneDrive warnings is:

C:\Users\[user]\OneDrive\Documents\MAGIX\Music Maker\AudioTemp

I've changed those all to local and will see what happens.

Both Task Manager and Process Explorer not being able to kill a process may be due to an issue with the Windows installation, have you done a System check by running sfc /scannow (note the space) in a command prompt?

I don't have any problems killing normal processes - other than MM when it shuts down and hangs. For example, Vegas 19 has a known issue with Windows 11 where the first time you start the application after booting, it MAY hang and do nothing. That task becomes background and has to be killed in order to get it to subsequently start properly. I have zero issues doing that with normal Task Manager. There's something about the MM process that makes it unkillable... until it sometimes shuts down on its own. Perhaps its not truly locked up, but just stuck doing something at a snail's pace, and the DRM is trying to protect it.

Sunfox wrote on 6/17/2022, 1:12 PM

Okay. Despite me changing ALL configurable folder paths to local, the program is STILL insisting on recreating content in the OneDrive folder.

It creates in OneDrive:

C:\Users\[user]\OneDrive\Documents\MAGIX\Music Maker\Features_mm30
C:\Users\[user]\OneDrive\Documents\MAGIX\Music Maker\ShopManager_mm30
link to C:\ProgramData\Magix\Music Maker\30\_Demos

If I delete these, I lose my login information and have to log in again, but then it just creates all of those again. And it turns out it's the ShopManager folder that has nearly 1000 files that it keeps self-deleting.