Hi Derek,
Further to what Ray mentioned, video programs use the video, photo and audio files without touching or modifying them. They are not actually "in" the project, the program just keeps the filename and gets the object from your hard drive and presents it on-screen or in the program with any effects, including resolution that you apply.
If you export to the two different resolutions, the resultant files will have quite different file sizes. Again, the original source material is never touched.
Normally, one should determine the desired resolution for export and use that for the project - right from the start. Do not accept any changes upon importing video clips. I have 2K, 4K and 1080 material in my projects, but my project settings are always for 1080 and thus when I export and select MP4, the same settings as my project are proposed.
John CB
My issue with the file turning upside down is as follows. Record video in 4k on iphone 11pro Download to folder on portable hard drive. Import from drive into Magix. Select file in Magix and copy to timeline,as soon as proxy has finished and the video is ready to play press play video immediately turns upside down on preview window. I reverse this with orientation in effects all good. Edit and render,as soon as rendering is finished and press play Video turns upside down. As before reverse but when exported to MP4 video when completed is upside down. Very frustrating any helpful advice would be appreciated.I have no issues with playing files recorded in HDTV 1920x1080 on my camera. Maybe iPhone issue?
Hi Al,
Yes, in which case you would be defeating the purpose. Question - take a camera, shoot for 1 minute in 1080 and 1 minute in 4K. Are the file sizes the same? No, not unless you mucked around with something.
Same with export, if you muck around with bitrates, then you are not getting what you are supposed to be getting. In your case, you're getting a lower quality if you reduce the bitrate of only one of them. So, if you reduce the bitrate for both 1080 and 4K, accordingly, you will get different file sizes. You don't just change one of them...
John CB
Hi
Al commented:
. . . . I'm not sure I'd call that a bug, more a "that's how it is" . . . .
The is not an issue it is how some mobile devices work. Many mobile phones, put an orientation flag into the video files metadata.
On import, video editors may either ignore the rotation flag or act upon it and rotate the clip the amount and direction indicated by the rotation flag.
. . . . I render and play turns upside down. Is there a setting that reverses view. . . .
There is a 'user' setting, however it will not work for the current files you have, they must be rotated to the correct orientation before being adding to the timeline. Al's Avidemix method is the best option .
The 'User' setting is to rotate the phone in the correct orientation when recording landscape, on my phone the camera lens must be on the left as you view from behind the phone, you can check yours by test recording in both orientations and importing them, add the Neat Video effect and see which is oriented correctly
I often see people recording with the camera lens on the right, using the flap of their phone cover, which is at the top in this orientation, to shield the display so they can see it better.
Al also commented:
. . . . File size is determined only by bitrate multiplied by the time ie length of the file . . . .
There is a 3rd parameter - multiply this by the degree of compression during encoding - this varies according to the scene.
Low activity/motion, or static scenes, and those lacking in a lot of fine detail will be compressed more than scenes with a high level of activity/motion and/or high detail
HTH
John EB
Thanks for all your feedback. Unfortunately cannot import without proxy as video is choppy and I cannot check the fluidity. After several hours the fault would appear to be in the DJI Mimo app. If I record video in the app with the iphone facing me and the lens on the back top left it import upsidedown. Turn the Iphone so lens is bottom right the video imports as normal.For some reason it seems to be recording the wrong way around.
Yes I put in earlier thread it worked without proxy on. It also works if I leave the video upside down and proxy the files then turn upright edit and then turn upsidedown before rendering. The video renders and turns upright again. Lengthy process
Yes, in which case you would be defeating the purpose. Question - take a camera, shoot for 1 minute in 1080 and 1 minute in 4K. Are the file sizes the same? No, not unless you mucked around with something.
John, I was simply giving Derek an explanation for his issue with the same file sizes for the two different frame sizes/resolutions.
As for
Same with export, if you muck around with bitrates, then you are not getting what you are supposed to be getting.
Just because some programmer in an office thinks I should be exporting at a particular bitrate doesn't mean that I will. It is me who determines what I am "supposed' to be getting. As I have said many times before, I almost never use the export presets; the bitrates are, for my purposes, way too high.
Definitely a bug with Proxies.
@Former user
Without doing anything else if you turn the proxies off with that lightning button does the video flip back the correct way up?
It does here.
@Former user
I don't believe there is anything wrong with the camera, I believe that MMS is ignoring the rotation data if it is imported without proxies as @johnebaker says "video editors may either ignore the rotation flag or act upon it and rotate the clip the amount". but when a proxy is made it is using that rotation data.
It's the other way round. MMS is correctly importing the file ie it is reading the rotation data and bringing the file in right-side up, even though it was shot upside down. As soon as you apply the Proxy, it then ignores the rotation flag and flips the video to upside down, the way it was shot. That's with both Samsung and iphone.
@Former user
I understand it like this. The camera/phone knows it is being held upside down when the video is taken. It therefore sets a flag saying "taken upside down". I assume that is that 180° MediaInfo data field.
When you import that video into MMS, MMS reads that flag and flips the video on import so that it displays properly, right side up. All good so far.
Now, when you apply the Proxy to that video, the proxy system ignores the flag and displays the video (or flips the video if it is already on the timeline) as it was taken: upside down.
@AAProds @Former user
Has anyone ever noticed that the word proxy is only ever applied to the sound track???
As an aside to jerky playbacks. I have found making the preview monitor smaller helps as does ticking show at a lower resolution and use a lower frame rate. I don't often have to resort to making proxy files. I know @derek-brown 's system is not as powerful as mine but I often add a lot of effects to my clips. Sometimes the preview monitor does not have to be made that much smaller. Some viewing sizes (larger or smaller) seem to affect playback more than others. Then as a last resort you can force pre-renders to various parts of the timeline as you go if you want to. Just remember to re-re-render anything you change in that section after.
Ray.
Hi Al,
John, I was simply giving Derek an explanation for his issue with the same file sizes for the two different frame sizes/resolutions.
My take on that was that he was looking at the source file thinking that by changing the resolution on the timeline, it would change the filesize.
For all - Cell phone? They should call it a Camera Computer (that can also make and receive phone calls, whatever those are).
John CB
All interesting thoughts.The fact is video in 4k with Iphone only no issue with importing or upside down with Proxy(blue button on ) Video with iPhone using Mimo app 4k add to timeline Proxy (blue button on) turns upside down reverse camera lens and add to timeline Proxy( blue button on) stays upright. Does anyone have a solution for the issue that allow me to work normally without makeshift fixes or do you think it is a DJI issue or magix?
Hi
. . . . do you think it is a DJI issue or magix . . . .
Are you using the DJI app on the iPhone video to correct the video orientation to the correct way up?
As Al @AAProds commented, and I said, previously, for the existing video clips from the iPhone this is what you are going to do.
For future video recording, turn the phone 180 degrees to what you have been using - did you try the test I also suggested?
. . . . I assume that is that 180° MediaInfo data field . . . .
That is correct.
John EB
Hi Derek.
You should check that the Mimo app videos are actually 4K. Often they are not. Videos should always be downloaded from the DJI Drone / cameras SD card.
@Former user @johnebaker @AAProds @browj2
I know I have said this before on the forums and been generally dismissed but.
I think that proxy files have had something wrong with them or they have certainly been altered a few program upgrades back. Certainly things changed in VPX between versions 12 and 14.
The above is no longer available to VPX. I also think the proxy file sizes / compression may have changed in MMS. My copy of MEP use of proxy files is much better / smoother than my copy of VPX 14 on my system. The above image was from the VPX 12 manual. I have just stopped using proxy files in VPX altogether. Now VPX for me has been renegaded to being only being used when I need better control over some of the third party effects.
Ray.
Ray, I've never had any problems with proxies, apart from Magix' refusal to proxy-ise the second and subsequent added clips (worked-around by re-ticking "Automatically create proxy files" after all clips are on the timeline), and the flip issue discussed here.
Hi Al.
Did you run MMS 2023 or newer on your old system?
MEP 2022 runs fine here. Also note the image above states that the audio files get new wav files created as well.
I don't know exactly what the issue is with proxy files in VPX 14 on my system but they make the program run worse not better on it. Luckily reducing frame rate does work as does reduce image quality. Pre-rending works just fine as well. Proxies were for me always last resort.
Ray.
Hi Al.
That is the process mentioned in all the previous VPX manuals I have. It's never mentioned in the MEP manuals that I have but I also have assumed it is the same process. It's just how much difference there is in the files themselves between the programs I have no idea about. At some point I may try to see if I have an old project to load from an archive disk if I have one with proxy files in it and see how it is handled in VPX 14. Even then I'm not completely sure it is the proxy files themselves or just the way the VPX 14 program now handles them. Could be either.
Ray.