Hello and thanks for reply.

Slight mix-up in that my cameraman at the studio said he has a 4k camera,

which I guess probably is true, however he shot the clips in 1920 resolution.

(I would've been pissed off at that, but given that most displays don't show above 1920 (and even ones that do show 4k, well the difference is barely noticeable), its kl.

And by encode (probably the wrong word) I mean that after I've done auto lighting edit on Magix I then save the file (which was originally a 4,500 sorta bitrate) from Magix onto my laptop,

Which takes 8+ hours, and gives me a 2GB file.

I then upload that onto Windows moviemaker and edit it by adding animation transitions between camera fadeouts... ect

But when I save it off MovieMaker back to my laptop (as a HD mp4 file still) its back down to 4,500 sorta bitrate/350mb.

However that file still has too high a bitrate, as when I try to watch it I cannot skip to 6.27mins in and have instant play, instead it'd buffer for 10-20seconds before being able to load and play from that marker.

So I convert that file, using Realplayer media converter into an MP4 file (so identical format still),

But because that produces a file which is 5-10% smaller in size/lower bitrate,

I can then open the video and skip to 5.40mins and it will play from there instantly without any buffering, and will instantly play from any point instantly no matter how many times I change the play position.

(Plus the image quality looks identical to even when it was at 2GB and 18,000 bitrate!)

But so if selecting '49' as the quality in Magix is doing nothing at all other than causing me to waste 8hours to get a huge file (which is actually just the exact same picture quality as the original file of 7x smaller size),

How can I know what quality number I should select on Magix to ensure the original file quality is maintained, jot reduced,

But that time isn't wasted just getting a far bigger container for the exact same file?

Hi

IMHO there are several issues here:

1. the workflow you are using ie MEP -> WMM -> RealPlayer negates anything you do with the higher quality settings in MEP is being undone because you have 2 further recompressions of the video, each losing quality, and a target bitrate of 4000 kbps.
    
2. I am puzzled how you are getting 49 different levels of quality in MEP - using the Intel HD codec has 9 levels and the MainConcept codec has 16 levels of quality
   
   Can you post a screenshot of the option showing where you are setting the levels.
    
3. . . . .videos are 10-12mins each (approx 400mb size) . . . ''auto adjust lighting'' . . . save file to my laptop takes 8hours+ . . .
   
   This suggests that you have no Hardware Acceleration to speed up exporting - what is your computer specification, please include:

• - processor make/model, graphics card or chipset make/model, audio card or chipset make/model, RAM,  hard drive configuration and sizes?
• Windows version and is it up to date?  Press and hold down the Windows key and the R key - in the dialog that opens type in winver and press enter.
• Software full name and version number - as found under Help, About . . .

. . . . re-encode the video afterwards back down below 4,000 to be able to actually watch it/skip fluidly to sections that I want without a delay . . . .

What is the software you are playing this back in?

From the workflow you have described you can save a lot of time and effort doing everything in MEP.

Testing with the source video, images, export options and quality settings below .

• MEP 2018
• a mix of AVCHD 1920 x 1080 video and JPG 3840 x 2160 images - total 2mins 50 secs on the timeline
• transitions between clip/images and Auto brightness applied
• export MP4 setting the Average bitrate to 4000 with a maximum of 5000 (gave a true bitrate of 4316)
• Hardware Acceleration
• different quality settings
• computer specification is in my profile

Resulted in the following observations:

• render time was identical for the different quality settings tested at 3 min 16 secs
• there is no visible difference between the exported video at different quality settings
• the file sizes were identical at 90 MB

Without Hardware Acceleration the export times would approximately 10 x longer on my PC.

John EB

Ignore my post sorry, I was mixing that 49 number up with a different software. :/ lol

On Magix, well it exports/saves the file to a bitrate 7x that of the original footage (but with the same 29fps rate),
however even with that 7x higher bitrate, whilst it makes the file far bigger, the actual viewing quality is identical.

(Since the maximum quality possible is what the original bitrate was, so just artificially increasing bitrate wont increase the quality at all).


But so I just wish it was possible to save the file at it's original bitrate though, as that'd take me 1 not 7-8hours!


And my laptop is an Alienware m15x, so has processors designed for intensive media processing/gaming.
I run windows 7 on it as didn't like windows 10.

I did look into harware acceleration, however my laptop has a built-in graphics card, so cannot enable/disable hardware acceleration.

If you are using a computer with Intel iCore processor, it should have the HW acceleration that MEP uses. You just need to install the graphic driver for the Intel graphic, your system should still be using the discrete graphic card as the main graphic processor but MEP will find the Intel hardware and uses it for acceleration.

I hope what I written it makes sense.

@Apollo89x

Hi

. . . . Alienware m15x . . . .

The only information I can find on this laptop indicates that it was released 9 years ago and runs a quad core Intel i7-720QM and uses a NVidia GTX 260M for the graphics

If yours is the same processor then unfortunately it does not have an integrated GPU so no hardware acceleration is possible.

Using the GTX 260M for HWA acceleration depends on having an old set of drivers installed that have the 'CUDA' encoding module present - NVidia have stopped supporting the CUDA encoding module in favour of NVENC a couple of years ago. - and if your drivers are up to date it is likely to have been removed.

Video pro X now supports NVENC encoding, so hopefully in the not to distant future MEP will also gain this. If it does and the GTX 260M will support NVENC then that is another route to get HWA.

Otherwise it is a new computer with an Intel i5 or i7 processor with integrated graphics chip and, if you are gaming as well, a NVidia graphics chipset.

HTH

John EB

@Apollo89X There are a few peculiarities here as far as I can see. Your cameraman says that he is filming on a 4K camera, but is filming in HD 1920x1080 at 4000kbs. Most of my footage on my 4K cameras is filmed in 4K at 3840x2160 at around 100,000kbs. If I use them in HD I would usually film at around 20,000kbs. I don't understand the point of filming with a 4K camera at 4000kbs.

You are then converting that footage to 18,000kbs which makes no difference to the original quality at all. You can't take low bitrate footage and improve the quality by re-encoding it any more than you can improve a VHS tape by converting the image to 4K.

My 4K footage is edited in 4K in Magix, then I export for my clients in HD MP4. The bitrate I use would depend on the final length and is usually for playing back on a modern smart tv or computer. I would use a 10,000kbs bitrate for a 1920 x1080 HD export up to 55 minutes (4Gb max file size on Fat 32) For shorter run times such as the 12 minutes that you use, I would export at 22-24,000kbs. The lower rate of 10,000kbs should play back comfortably without buffering on most modern systems, so as John suggested, a computer upgrade may be required.

Roger

Yes, I will speak with the cameraman about why the bitrate or rather resolution is 1920 not 4k level.

Ultimately the original bit rates of the clips are around the 3,500/4,000 bitrate mark,

so I'd prefer for Magix to stop exporting the files to 18,000+ level,

as all that does is take hours to save each clip, and creates a huge file size which I have to then encode again back down to a smaller size (but which may be causing loss of quality due to being recoded again).

When you are exporting the files from Magix to Mp4, go into 'File-export movie as mp4', select the export type, then use the 'advanced' tab to set the BR at whatever you want it to be.

Roger

@Apollo89x

Hi

. . . . Ultimately the original bit rates of the clips are around the 3,500/4,000 bitrate mark . . .

Have you used MediaInfo to determine exactly what source video bitrates etc are?

Please post the results from the Text view of MediaInfo (copy all and paste into your post, then we can see exactly what you are starting with.

HTH

John EB

When you are exporting the files from Magix to Mp4, go into 'File-export movie as mp4', select the export type, then use the 'advanced' tab to set the BR at whatever you want it to be.

Roger

No 'advanced tab' shows mate.

Just a drop down menu of DVD quality, HD1, or HD2 quality, and choice of Mpeg4 or WMV.

I select HD2 (as I don't want a lower quality video than the original) and mp4, but then have to sit and wait approx 8hours per each 10minute video to save! :/
(All purely because Magix increases the bitrate from the mid 4,000s upto 18,000+ everytime I save anything).

@Apollo89x

Hi

. . . . Ultimately the original bit rates of the clips are around the 3,500/4,000 bitrate mark . . .

Have you used MediaInfo to determine exactly what source video bitrates etc are?

Please post the results from the Text view of MediaInfo (copy all and paste into your post, then we can see exactly what you are starting with.

HTH

John EB

 

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Beta\Desktop\20th video footage\P1040487.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (mp42/avc1)
File size                                : 105 MiB
Duration                                 : 32 s 160 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 27.3 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-06-20 11:17:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-06-20 11:17:55
PANA                                     : DMC-G7

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.2
Format settings                          : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames               : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 32 s 160 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 27.1 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 36.9 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.262
Stream size                              : 104 MiB (99%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-06-20 11:17:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-06-20 11:17:55
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 32 s 160 ms
Source duration                          : 32 s 213 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 492 KiB (0%)
Source stream size                       : 492 KiB (0%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-06-20 11:17:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-06-20 11:17:55

Ok so based on that info my files are actually originally 20,000+ bitrate & 50 fps,

which means the huge reduce on bitrate/quality must happened when putting the file through WMM?

Not sure why MM would destroy a video's quality though. :(

The original footage is shot on a Panasonic G7 according to the information above. It is a UK PAL format version and the footage you are using is being converted into an American NTSC format from 50fps to 29fps at about 1/6 of the original bitrate. That is where your quality problems are coming from. You are also saying that Magix is outputting at 18,000kbs in NTSC 29fps, which is because you are using the wrong output settings. Once the damage has been done in WMM there is zero gain from exporting it at a higher bitrate again. You are probably also trying to play the finished NTSC footage on a PAL laptop, maybe another source of problems.

My advice is to do all the editing in Magix, which is as easy to do basic transitions as WMM is if you look at some of the excellent tutorials and the manual. If you edit using the original footage, then you can export straight from Magix at whatever bitrate you want, but using a PAL format. First though, it would be useful to let us know what the performance of your computer is, Processor, Ram, Graphics etc. There are several variants over a number of years to the laptop you referred to.

Finally, I would have a word with your cameraman, as there shouldn't be any requirement for constantly adjusting the lighting if he has the camera set up properly. He could also film in HD 25i on the Panasonic which would give a lower bitrate and would probably be more edit friendly on your system.

Roger

Thanks for the reply. :)

But yes, whilst I do extremely love the ease and simplicity of WMM, given as you say it for some reason totally destroys video quality (for no apparent reason) just by a video being processed through it,
I am going to have to now drop WMM completely from my setup and just do all the editing on Magix.

Hopefully the quality difference will actually be noticeable, will try and findout today.
 

And my laptop is an old Alienware M15x, I bought it brand new in 2012 for around £1,600, and given that it works perfectly fine, well im not going to be replacing it with another alienware for atleast 3-4years more tbh.

However if buying a very cheap £100-150 laptop, but which has hardware acceleration feature, would increase the export speed for my videos on Magix from 8+hours down to below 1hour, I would have no issue buying that kina laptop for my editing.

Ok well i've tried to use Magix to edit, but its just total crap and junk as editing software sorry!

It doesn't even have a pause button ffs, only a 'hard stop' button, so I cannot even pause at frames to select where to cut/add animations, which makes it impossible to edit anything!

Plus the choice of animation-transitions are far more limited than on WMM, it doesn't show a preview of how they will look when you demo them in preview,
but more fundamentally because there is no pause button you cannot even split the footage at the point you want to then add the animation!


WMM may lower the quality in terms of bitrate, but atleast it's usable and has the basic fundamental functions which a video editor needs,
which Magix simply doesn't have!

Ok well i've tried to use Magix to edit, but its just total crap and junk as editing software sorry!

It doesn't even have a pause button ffs, only a 'hard stop' button, so I cannot even pause at frames to select where to cut/add animations, which makes it impossible to edit anything!

What I do is drag the red cursor while using timeline mode, to a position I want to split. As you drag the red cursor, the video is played. I think trying to hit the pause button is a lot harder, even after configuring the spacebar to start/stop the video ( the cursor will also moves to the place where you hit spacebar/stop).

You can easily zoom the timeline to one frame interval each by press ALT-1 or use one of the button right at the bottom of the timeline. But I think it is just too much to remember or takes too long to move the mouse to select the correct button. So I just click anywhere on the timeline and press CTRL and use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom in & out. I normally zoom to around 0.01 seconds interval to split my video or to sync my music.

Plus the choice of animation-transitions are far more limited than on WMM, it doesn't show a preview of how they will look when you demo them in preview,

I guess you already downloaded and installed the free transition & fades package from magiX website. Just like WMM, MEP also allows customise each transition ( like changing the colour fades or the direction of movements) so each one transition can start of as the same but becomes something totally different.

but more fundamentally because there is no pause button you cannot even split the footage at the point you want to then add the animation!


WMM may lower the quality in terms of bitrate, but atleast it's usable and has the basic fundamental functions which a video editor needs,
 

I don't think Windows Movie Maker is any lower in quality, because I used it plenty for my DVD before moving to MEP. The DVD output was not at all lousy in quality and very similar to those I did using MEP.

@Apollo89x

Hi

. . . . Ok well i've tried to use Magix to edit, but its just total crap and junk as editing software sorry! . . . .

To be direct and to the point, and hopefully no offence taken.

The issues you are having are due to the workflow you are forced to use because the Alienware laptop is way below the minimum specification required for editing Full HD (1920 x 1080) video and playback of Full HD video that is at the optimal bitrate for quality vs file size.

. . . . It doesn't even have a pause button ffs, only a 'hard stop' button, so I cannot even pause at frames to select where to cut/add animations, which makes it impossible to edit anything! . . . .

If you have the option Playback stops at current cursor position in the Programs settings, Playback tab turned on then Pause and Play are the same thing.

With the option turned off stopping play returns the timeline cursor to the start of the timeline.

The space bar also acts as a play/pause/stop and you can accurately position the timeline cursor using the left/right arrows (moving by single frame) or Ctrl + left/right arrows keys (moving by 5 frames).

. . . . a very cheap £100-150 laptop . . . .

Only if it meets the minimum specification for Full HD editing - ie minimum at least a generation 4 quad core i5 Intel processor with integrated GPU, 8GB of RAM minimum and a 500GB+ hard drive and at least a 15inch screen.

HTH

John EB

Ok well i've tried to use Magix to edit, but its just total crap and junk as editing software sorry!

It doesn't even have a pause button ffs, only a 'hard stop' button, so I cannot even pause at frames to select where to cut/add animations, which makes it impossible to edit anything!

What I do is drag the red cursor while using timeline mode, to a position I want to split. As you drag the red cursor, the video is played. I think trying to hit the pause button is a lot harder, even after configuring the spacebar to start/stop the video ( the cursor will also moves to the place where you hit spacebar/stop).

You can easily zoom the timeline to one frame interval each by press ALT-1 or use one of the button right at the bottom of the timeline. But I think it is just too much to remember or takes too long to move the mouse to select the correct button. So I just click anywhere on the timeline and press CTRL and use the mouse scroll wheel to zoom in & out. I normally zoom to around 0.01 seconds interval to split my video or to sync my music.

Plus the choice of animation-transitions are far more limited than on WMM, it doesn't show a preview of how they will look when you demo them in preview,

I guess you already downloaded and installed the free transition & fades package from magiX website. Just like WMM, MEP also allows customise each transition ( like changing the colour fades or the direction of movements) so each one transition can start of as the same but becomes something totally different.

but more fundamentally because there is no pause button you cannot even split the footage at the point you want to then add the animation!


WMM may lower the quality in terms of bitrate, but atleast it's usable and has the basic fundamental functions which a video editor needs,
 

I don't think Windows Movie Maker is any lower in quality, because I used it plenty for my DVD before moving to MEP. The DVD output was not at all lousy in quality and very similar to those I did using MEP.

 

 

 

Genuinely don't get why the developers of Magix were incapable of putting a basic standard pause button in, like every single other editing software has though.
Just is bewildering why they thought the product would be better/or even ok without such an essential feature!

I can use the slider for video yes, but slider doesn't do audio.
I often want to play-pause-play mincro-seconds of video with hearing the audio too,
to know exactly where to split the video/add an animation, however without a pause button that is not possible.


And no, I haven't searched online, after having actually paid for a product, to try and find free basic extra features for it which were simply not included in the purchased-product (for some unknown reason)...,
as not being funny but why on earth would anyone be expected to do that? :S

If you pay for something you expect to recieve it all.
Not to need to play silly games and jump through hoops of paying for something, but then loads of free features not being included in that, and needing to be discovered and downloaded seperately.


I have paid for this product now so will use it to change brightness, but apart from that it is just a piece of junk, and definately not worth actuallying paying for.

Genuinely don't get why the developers of Magix were incapable of putting a basic standard pause button in, like every single other editing software has though.
Just is bewildering why they thought the product would be better/or even ok without such an essential feature!

To be honest, I was totally opposite when I first used it. I was like why did the STOP button worked like a PAUSE button. Because when I press STOP, I expected it to STOP and move to be beginning, so that when I press PLAY, it should do so from the beginning not from where it paused/stop.

After which I realised that it was better when the STOP button behaved like a PAUSE because then I was able to play back & fore that part of the clip where I stop.

I can use the slider for video yes, but slider doesn't do audio.

Yup, Just like you, I do that as well... both hearing as well as seeing the waveform where it peaks or falls, position right at that micro-second. Just hold down the CTRL and drag that red cursor. But the sound depends on how fast/slow you move it and gets choppy. After some time, I figure that the waveform works better for me.

I often want to play-pause-play mincro-seconds of video with hearing the audio too,
to know exactly where to split the video/add an animation, however without a pause button that is not possible.

For stuff like this, I normally use the range settings and zoom to that range. This makes working within the few micro second section much easier.

And no, I haven't searched online, after having actually paid for a product, to try and find free basic extra features for it which were simply not included in the purchased-product (for some unknown reason)...,
as not being funny but why on earth would anyone be expected to do that? :S

If you pay for something you expect to recieve it all.
Not to need to play silly games and jump through hoops of paying for something, but then loads of free features not being included in that, and needing to be discovered and downloaded seperately.

I am totally with you on this one. 

I purchased the DVD so that I did not have to download and stuff.... and in the end, I had too because the DVD contains only few of the transitions, hardly any title effects and no effect template, DVD menus nor the video wizards. All these these are only available via download. This is absolutely bonkers.

I have paid for this product now so will use it to change brightness, but apart from that it is just a piece of junk, and definately not worth actuallying paying for.

Well, to each their own.

@Apollo89x

. . . . I can use the slider for video yes, but slider doesn't do audio. . . . .

I would suggest you read the installed PDF manual available under Help.

It does - it is called scrubbing and you need to turn this on - right click the speaker icon on the right above the timeline and select the options shown below

You will then hear the audio as well when you move the timeline cursor and also when you use the 2 scrubbing controls circled in the image below - you may need to expand your preview window to see them..

. . . . a basic standard pause button in, like every single other editing software has though . . .

Windows Movie Maker does not have one, nor do any of the professional and prosumer video editors on PC or MAC I have used have pause button.

@wongck

. . . . This makes working within the few micro second section much easier. . . . .

This statement needs qualifying - in MEP the smallest unit you can work to is a single frame the value of which is dependant on the framerate of the project or video on the timeline eg:

• 25fps - 40 mS is the smallest increment possible
  
  and
   
• 100 fps - 10 ms is the smallest increment possible

John EB