Thank you, Ray! I appreciate it! A couple follow-up questions, if you please...

D-Cinelike H.265 will not work with VPX13? I don't have any plans to upgrade to VPX14.

Do YouTube and Vimeo support 10-bit color?

Thanks!

@Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi Wayne.

I have VPX 11 and that can export HEVC 10 bit files so I can't see why 13 wouldn't. I just can't find anything specifically about importing such files in the specs page but the the website history page says this from 2019 onwards, "HDR preview and color space handling You can now select HDR, Full HD/UHD or SD as color space for projects. Experience enhanced visual control and precision in your color correction workflow". The proviso for that is in the manual where it warns that it is only possible if the whole system complies to being able to cope with HDR files which as far as I'm aware is a limit of Windows more than the program but your system seems to meet the requirements.

I say that because I know I have the option in the options box to export to 10 bit but it immediately reverts to 8 bit whenever I try. I assume that is because my whole system is not recognised by Windows as being 10 bit as I have 8 bit monitors.

No to YouTube and Vimeo, Look at any video on YouTube where you can use 'Stats for nerds' to see the encoding and all videos conform to BT709 (8 bit) but people will still notice a difference..as you tend to get less graining in the image and a cleaner looking output.

I should add we did some testing with 4:2:2 mov files and they played and exported OK but did not show up in our timeline editors correctly. If such files show OK on your system then it could be down to our systems not being fully 10 bit HDR capable. That may be a good thing to let us know.

Also it is very difficult to find out what if any web browsers can actually play back 10 bit files from the web.

Ray.
 

@Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi Wayne.

I just had an additional thought. Chrome is supposed to support 10 bit video streaming.

Maybe I can't get a different colour space to show on YouTube because my monitors are only 8bit so I could be wrong about YouTube not supporting it. Browse and look for 4K UHD content and right click the screen while the video plays and see which colour profile you get. If it is still BT709 then no, YouTube does not use it. If you get BT2020, then it does.

Ray.

Thank you!! I will check it out and follow up; unfortunately that will take a while as we have packed up our entire house as we are moving. We are traveling to Europe where I will pick up the drone in 2 days, for a 2-month trip there. The reason I asked to begin with is I want to know whether I should be recording in 8-bit or 10-bit for all the beautiful places we are going. 😊 I hope it might still be worth the extra effort to color grade D-Cine 10-bit for the color gradation benefits, even if most viewers cannot fully appreciate the color depth

So, unfortunately I cannot test now on my desktop PC, but just now on my laptop I was able to import, color grade and export D-Cinelike H.264 files, but the laptop definitely does not support a full 10-bit pipeline, so that part of the test will have to wait.

Thanks again! You've always been extremely helpful! 😊

@Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi.

That is a tricky one to answer. Normally I would say always record at the best quality you can obtain but after three days of solid Photoshop-ing Raw still images from my DSLR, I'm not so sure any more.🤔 The normal colour profile of DJI gear is pretty good to my eye and I use it a lot on my Pocket. The flat colour profile on the Pocket is not 10 bit though and I can't get it much better than what the camera does automatically. I have not tried loading any LUTS to one yet though so I might give that a try at some point.

If you feel you could do a good job then go for it. At least video clips last longer than a still image on screen.

Ray.

@Wayne-McIlvaine, @CubeAce

Hi

. . . . support a full 10-bit pipeline . . . .

The computer system does not have to support a full 10 bit pipeline, if your monitor and/or the GPU is 8 bit only the only difference you will see is that the displayed image will not be in the 10 bit / HDR colour space/dynamic range so will appear 'muted' then if you had a 10 bit monitor (expensive!).

HTH

John EB

@johnebaker @Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi John.

I had tried this experiment out in the past with no success but after a hunt for more 10 bit video files to download to try out I have finally succeeded, much to my own surprise.

There are various file types to be found from this Wiki page for anyone interested to try out. I used a Korean HEVC 10 bit file (No 8 in the list) and exported to HEVC 10 bit. The export is a different version of HEVC but seems to be working. /The actual difference in quality in this instance is not discernibly different on my screens either. We have seen others come onto the site in the past as well with various codecs we have not been able to use.

That file (No 8) easily played on my system with the Windows Film and TV player though.

There may be other codec files on the site I can't play back or import into VPX. I deliberately picked a file I thought should work this time around though as I know there are either codecs I would need to purchase from Magix to be able to use within VPX or files completely unsupported by Windows 10 at least. I therefore don't understand some of what I read in the VPX manual. What are the warnings about?

This Site was pretty good for files as well.

Ray.

@johnebaker @Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi John.

Woah! This may become very system capable dependent.

I tried files from the Jellyfish site (last link in my last reply) and while I could play back most of the files within Windows Film and TV player and they loaded into VPX without fuss, they did not play back on my system within VPX 11 without problems nor export without problems.

The file quality was simply stunning looking, even on my 8bit monitors. But within VPX 11 the file I chose this time around did not play back in an orderly fashion. To be more precise it played back smoothly but repeatedly played back same sections while ignoring other parts and then skipped forwards missing parts.

The export was identical to the playback I saw. Worse my C: drive read speeds were completely crazy. The most I have ever encountered. Any drive these files are put onto will have to be super fast and topped over 2GB/s at some points. The resulting export looked equally as good as the source file but completely out of sequence.

Just reading the file in VPX

Similar experience rendering

Original file vs VPX rendered file.

VPX rendered file on playback on my monitors.

Please try some of the files from that site for yourself starting with files above 160Mbs.

Ray.

@CubeAce Hi, just going to bed so i'll be brief, I don't have VPX but might get it one day so i was curious about this,

just to share, Vegas, Hitfilm, Vegas Effects & none of the Boris stuff i have will load that Jelly fish 10bit file, MEP does but it doesn't like it, playback is poor, proxies & prerender won't create, there's black bits in the timeline,

The program i dislike the most tho does load it & plays well, Free Resolve.😒😂

Resolve rendered HEVC no prob but that's 8bit, i couldn't see any option for 10bit,

AVI has 10bit which seemed to render ok but nothing i have inc MEP will play that file, so don't know how that worked out,

My drives went a bit like your pics when playing in MEP, so just sharing like i say 👍

@Former user @johnebaker @Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi Gid.

As the file was residing on my C: drive (EVO 970 Plus) to begin with I wondered if having the file there was the main problem as it would have been running the operating system and VPX as well as reading the file so I placed the file on my project SSD which is much older and quite a bit slower.

It makes me wonder how fast a drive is needed.

Not only did the file take a long time (over minute) to fully load onto the timeline of VPX but whatever I did within VPX there was a serious delay between the action and the resulting response within VPX. The SSD constantly maxed out with any movement on the timeline. Up to a 30 second delay between pressing play within VPX (or moving the cursor) and the start of playback or movement to the new cursor position. Curiously little motherboard ram or vram from the video card was pressed into use. Little use of the CPU or Intel GPU while the nvidia GPU usage bounced up and down like a frog in a bicycle pump.😅 I didn't even attempt an export for fear of damaging the SSD.

Beautifully smooth looking video output from VPX rendering though using default settings.

Taken from the video file I rendered while the file was on my C: drive.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

The difference in playability and visual quality of the 2 original files I think is due to the video data rate differences - the Korean file is 25 Mb/s, the Jellyfish file 157 Mb/s.

The writing application export has to meet the HEVC/h.265 standard, if it does not, or the creator has mixed HEVC video with, for example, an unsupported audio codec then issues start to arise.

John EB

@Wayne-McIlvaine

Hi Wayne.

Good news.

YouTube does support HDR content but there are a few extra steps to take for uploading before their servers will process the videos correctly.

That information can be found here.

I have only looked at it briefly. There may be additional conditions. I will look at it later.

@johnebaker @Former user

Hi John.

My interest lies in what can be done. It could affect future camera purchase choices. You are correct of course about whether a file can be read or not within the program but my surprise was not that my video card could not cope (I expected that to be the case but no!) Nor did it seem to be a CPU problem as that basically just ticked over in the background, as the Intel HD 630 GPU also coped just as well for playback via TV & film. The source files hardly caused much in the way of disk data rate problems on playback within Windows which was much much better than I would expect.

It was the lack of CPU usage and Intel GPU usage but the horrendously huge data transfer rates involved that surprised me. I think even Gids WD Black NVMe's were pushed to their limits and his additional nvidia cards grunt, both in processing power and vram amount had little leverage. That other programs even failed to load the videos with one exception on his machine could not use them means one would have to be very careful about possible camera purchases.

I think in general H264 or H265 with an output using 4:2:2 is possibly a safe bet as long as the audio codec is also one that can be pressed into service. I did like the smoothness of the output colour and contrast at VPX default settings for the conversions. I was really surprised it was so good even at relatively low data rates. There are so many file types I can't use I find it useful to also know what I could probably use. Also it seems anyone using a project drive that can't run at 2GBs may well find themselves in trouble. Something i would have never suspected.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

Further experimenting with the Jelly fish 160 Mb/s clip it looks like VPX does not like either the container format and/or the HEVC encoding.

Running the file through Handbrake converting to Main 10 High, Level 6.1 10 bit, 160 Mb/s, plays and exports smoothly with no issues in VPX.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

As you may know (or not) I have never had Handbrake on my system due to the lack of need for it in the past.

How was the disk usage after conversion? Did any other computer component compensate by working harder?

I'm also puzzled by the fact these files use so little CPU / GPU and ram resources. It is counter intuitive and the opposite experience of using H265 in the past when dealing with 8 bit versions. Even rendering was quicker than in the past. The output quality at base settings is as good or better than anything I can get using H264. At the 8 bit level HEVC produces more blockiness and lack of refined detail than I can achieve using MP4 that pushes my system much harder. This is all too counter intuitive. 🤔🤨😕

Ray.

I just tried to import some footage from the mini 3 pro in vpx. first footage was 4k 60fps .265 MP4 footage. I could upload it in vpx but it' s unplayable, stutters and shocks...then I tried to import 4K 30fps .264 MOV (and MP4) footage D-Cinelike 10bit. The programme just crashed, again and again..and this all on the new vpx14. Thank you magix

@Colorz

Hi.

Can you upload a short clip of the problem file types to google drive for us to test?

It may help to answer the initial question posted here.

I can see you have been a long time member of the site and yet you still have no computer specs in your signature.

It's possible the newer version of VPX on your system may not work as well with those files as an earlier version might with your hardware so specs would help us help you a lot.

If you are not willing or able to upload a clip from the mini pro 3 then could you at least supply a MediaInfo readout please?

Ray.

@Colorz

Hi.

Can you upload a short clip of the problem file types to google drive for us to test?

It may help to answer the initial question posted here.

I can see you have been a long time member of the site and yet you still have no computer specs in your signature.

It's possible the newer version of VPX on your system may not work as well with those files as an earlier version might with your hardware so specs would help us help you a lot.

If you are not willing or able to upload a clip from the mini pro 3 then could you at least supply a MediaInfo readout please?

Ray.

Ok I will make today different files. I sended a mail to magix yesterday and they asked me to do the same and send these files to them. you will hear from me as soon as i'm ready. Thanks!

@Colorz

Hi

It is possible that upgrading to VPX 14 has tipped you computer system over the edge or the setup is not correctly configured for the CPU, GPU combination.

What is your computer specification, Windows version and program version number, see this topic for what is required and please quote processor and graphics card make/model in full, and also what monitor/screen resolution(s) your are working with. 

I would suggest you put this information in your profile signature so we do not have to keep asking for it.

Are the graphics card drivers up to date?

A screen shot of the Program settings, Display options or Device options tab  would help.

Download and install MediaInfo and analyse one of the clips causing the issue and post the results, see this tutorial on how to setup MediaInfo and analyse a video clip for all the data required.   

The amount of free space on the hard drive(s) you have.

Are you using Proxy files and/or is the Lightning symbol bottom right of the Program monitor grey or blue?

John EB
Forum Moderator

Thank you John, I am very sporadicly here but I understand, i will update my signature. It is an older system, i'm waiting now on the new generation at the end of the year to upgrade everything.

Here is the link with the mini 3 files. I have to say that somehow all the files work now (maybe because i updated yesterday and did not restart everything), EXCEPT for the .h265 files. here is the link to the files, try the H265 files if you can :-)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1k5dN-cNHeyTFISeFrkZIZbStEiKonExg?usp=sharing

With regards,

@Colorz

Hi.

All files played on my system within VPX 11 without a hitch with the exception of the H265 files (both MP4 and mov.) which needs an additional Intra Codec pack (paid for and available from Magix.

Some of the files marked mov also contained HEVC but were  Main 10@L5@Main which could be read by VPX as opposed to High 10@L5.1 which seems to be the problem HEVC intra codec.

Apart from the file sizes there appears to be little difference in the quality of the files although I did not try any files marked 8 bit.

All files seems to be encoded to 4:2:0

All files that worked report as being BT 709 which I find strange for a 10 bit file. But then again I haven't had that much experience with 10 bit files.

While your CPU has no graphics chip, the Radeon R9 200 is capable of Direct X 12 (no higher) but would have no CUDA cores so I'm not sure of it's performance value within VPX. My CPU and graphics are just ticking over when in use with the other files. What does Task manager report on your system?

Ray.

@Colorz

Hi

Thanks for the video clips.

The 4K 30fps .264 MOV (and MP4) footage D-Cinelike 10bit HRVC clips import into VPX14 with no issues very smooth playback - I cannot test VPX13 as I updated both my PC and laptop to VPX14.

The two 10 bit clips labelled as being h.265, and do not import, are 'odd'.

According to MediaInfo they are AVC ie h.264 encoded in the MOV or MP4 container files - are these files direct from the Mini 3 and was it set to record h.264 or h.265 ?

John EB

Cinelike D is 10bit footage. Not sure if that works in MMS. I know it doesn't in MEP2022. Maybe they've added it to 2023?