I tried the trial version of V5 in Vegas 17 and to be honest did not like it. I have ver 4 and prefer this.

@Andrew-Smith

Do you mean you do not like the RT V5 or the non RT version of V5 that installs as well as part of the V5 suite?

Peter

I didn't like the RT version that does real time from the timeline. My favourite stabilizer is the legacy built into Vegas since Sony time, but it is prone to crash now & then (Mercalli version 2), then Mercalli version 4 and then the newer Vegas built-in version if there is nothing else.

I am surprised you put V2 before V4 as the dynamic zoom in V4 is a big improvement in my opinion.

I have not spent much time with the V5 non RT version but it does not appear to be much different from V4.

@Scenestealer, @Andrew-Smith

Hi

I can see where Andrew is coming from with respect to which is better, however I would caution that the results are dependant on the video clip content.

I did a quick comparison test of 4 stabiliser options Magix have offered

• Vegas stabilisation
• Mercalli RT
• Mercalli 2
• Mercalli v5

The video clip was recorded hand held with my Sony FDR-AX53e, at 4K.

Stabilisation was tested on the 4K video with default settings for each stabiliser.

In terms of stabilisation on this test, I would put them in the following order:

1. Mercalli V2 - excellent stabilisation
    
2. Vegas - excellent stabilisation, gets 2nd place due to the aggressive zoom - also seen in other video clips
    
3. Mercalli RT and Mercalli v5 are on par - is RT a cut down version of v5?
   
   I am surprised the v5 stabilisation is not as good as, or better, than v2

John EB

@Andrew-Smith @Scenestealer @johnebaker@johnebaker @Chucky5

I think it is good both are offered.

I have found personally the Mercalli to be better so far. No idea which version I've been using since 2018.

I like it can be fine tuned.

Maybe it could be down to camera differences and their own stabilization methods deployed but the Vegas version hardly seems to make a difference on my footage.

Use of either can still produce the 'jellow effect' (a sort of wobbling of verticals) if the camera used is not pointing parallel to the ground at all times.

Ray.

Very interesting John, you are right in that the results do depend on the clip and type of movement. I hand hold my Sony AX100 & AX700 and tend to use the sabilization to just steady and remove any slight rotation. What I like about MC V2 is that on the default setting it does a great job at taking out these small movements to produce a perfect result. It does crash on about 1 in 20 clips. In the case where the movement is more pronounced it tends to gently float the image rather than make the image move in small jumps which is why it is always my first choice to try. The problem with the new Vegas in built is that it tends warp the image in cases of more movement which I do not like. MC V4 is much more powerful and has many more options to play with and most times it is very good but it tends to try and deliver a rock solid image and is not quite as good as MC 2 on removing slight rotation. I found that MCV5RT was not really any better than MCV4 so not worth the price of an upgrade and also used more PC power on the timeline. Vegas 18 is much better in the use of GPU to improve frame rate on timeline playback.

@Andrew-Smith @Chucky5 @Scenestealer @emmrecs @johnebaker

One thing I have found to improve panning is not to twist my body with the camera but keep an eye on the lens placement and walk around or twist the camera so the lens stays at the same point in space. The problem with in camera stabilization is it will move the image to try to keep it central and when it reaches as far as it can it lets go and starts again giving a very jittery pan. I've no idea why twisting the camera improves this on my camera but it is still even better to use a tripod with a fluid pan and tilt head and all stabilisation turned off.

[Edit]

If any of you have tried to use a steadycam similar to this one.

You will have noticed that turning the camera around the axis produces very smooth panning.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . One thing I have found to improve panning is not to twist my body with the camera but keep an eye on the lens placement and walk around or twist the camera so the lens stays at the same point in space. . . . .

OT however interesting - that is the opposite of what I find best - plant feet firmly, slightly less than a 'stand easy' and swivel body around the hips - can get very long pans that way, eg this (original clip), hardest part is maintaining a constant turn rate.

This is about 240 deg swing.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Not sure if it's off topic if it helps the program do a better conversion.

I do agree a body swivel works with a slow pan but tracking a faster object or person on the move I have found the other method more effective. Again there could be differences in the methods of image stabilisation that has to be taken into account.

Ray.

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Nice pan. Here is a steadycam version pivoting from a central spot, much faster for comparison.

Please do not watch this full screen while standing. It is an unedited, straight from camera shot. I have no idea why they call these steadycams as they are the most unruly bit of kit to get used to. This was in fact a part of my first tests with a steadycam. I can get nice results but the weight against the wrist is really quickly tiring and keeping the camera in balance not at all easy.

Ray.

@CubeAce

I have no idea why they call these steadycams

Totally agree! I tried one, briefly, but soon confined it to "history"!! Not just for the "pain in the wrist" but also for the "pain" that attempting to set the counterbalance weight correctly seemed to create; I don't think I ever got it right!

Jeff

@emmrecs

Hi Jeff.

It does get better (if not actually easier) with practice and works better with a longer extension of the base rod and less weights to counter balance.

I takes me about three minutes to get the balance now but used outside in even a gentle breeze is enough to cause balance problems. The smaller the camera and lens, the less wind resistance and easier it is to control. Lens hoods act like sails so I prefer to point away from the sun without one as much as possible. Also adding any sort of mic with a wind shield also doesn't help reduce the wind profile. The weight although a problem, does help reduce bounce in the footage although doing the 'Ninja walk' attracts unusual stares form anyone nearby.

It took me over two months of practice to start to get reasonable footage from it.

I think the motorized gimbles although very expensive for heavier cameras are probably are much better value for money. I may get one next year to try out.

Ray.

@johnebaker

Does V5 overwrite V4 in VPX?

Does V5 at least get rid of the bobbing effect of walking with a GoPro? I had mentioned this before in another thread and we looked at it. I was never able to resolve this.

The original question by @Chucky5 still has not been answered. Does anyone know if getting one Mercalli V5 for Magix works for both VPX and Vegas?

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

. . . .Does V5 overwrite V4 in VPX? . . . .

I cannot say for certain as VPX and Mercalli v5 were a clean install, however looking at the Prodad folder I do have v4 installed about 1 month before v5, looks like MEP and VPX are only picking up the latest version, so there must be a setting change when v5 was installed.

Oddly enough v2 is still available in VPX and MEP under the Vide effects section.

. . . . Does V5 at least get rid of the bobbing effect of walking with a GoPro? . . . .

Don't know about GoPro video, for 4K UHD from my AX53e it doesn't, for comparison neither does the Vegas stabilsation.

I don't think any stabilisation would remove the bobbing satisfactorily without inducing odd effects, the bobbing is worse when here are features close to the camera as well more distant such as in this image.

This situation is where an active gimbal is necessary, or in my case had reduced the recording resolution to Full HD and turned on the full BOSS stabilisation in the camera.

@Chucky5

. . . . The original question by @Chucky5 still has not been answered. Does anyone know if getting one Mercalli V5 for Magix works for both VPX and Vegas? . . . .

Vegas Pro does not pick up v5 from VPX12 automatically. IIRC only the full program asks which NLEs you want to install for.

John EB

@browj2

Hi John.

The best ways to get rid of bounce on an action cam is either to adapt a Ninja Walk or use a Z axis stabiliser.

I have two adapted Z axis stabilisers of which were used on the Santa fun run video. Useful as I had to walk backwards a lot that day. The small one I use with a boom pole for either low angle or over the heads of crowd shots and the larger with added weights to help counteract my body movement as it has a longer travel arm and have a more damped movement. The problem then becomes any use of internal image stabilisation on camera will fight the z axis stabiliser which is why the combination works better with motorised gimbal assisted cameras.

Look for the YouTube site called ScottyMakesStuff. and watch

I think you will find it useful.

[Edit] Don't consider cheap versions.. To work well they should use ball raced bearings and adjustable dampening.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I strap on the GoPro to my chest and go for walks and hikes. I can't see doing the Ninja Walk for 10k or using the Z-stabilizer either. I was just hoping for a bit better bobbing stabilization. The Mercalli site at one time (may still do) had an example but never showed how to take care of the problem.

@johnebaker

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply. I'll live with the problem.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

Then it can't be done as it is a 3D filming problem involving foreground, mid distance, and background independent movement where movement happens at different speeds and distances of movement change between each component of the scene.

Ray.

@Andrew-Smith

The problem with the new Vegas in built is that it tends warp the image in cases of more movement which I do not like.

This sounds like rolling shutter effect coming into play. Have you tried using the Prodad cmos fixer in conjunction with Vegas Stabilization - Mercalli does some degree of rolling shutter correction by default but the Prodad V% manual suggest applying the separate cmos fixer plugin prior to applying Mercalli.

MC V4 is much more powerful and has many more options to play with and most times it is very good but it tends to try and deliver a rock solid image and is not quite as good as MC 2 on removing slight rotation.

Surely this is a matter of trying some of the other stabi presets like Glide Cam, or the new Steadicam in V5, or just tweaking the sliders for x, y and z axis?

Peter

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I would tend to disagree. Videos are in 2D. The stabilization works fine left to right; it should also work top to bottom. There are objects, like the horizon, that the program should pick up and make sure that from one frame to the next it does not move much up or down.

John CB