@Reyfox

Hi Tony,

Here is the video. I will do up a part 2 showing nesting for VPX only. Nesting is not an automatic thing and does not affect the movie that gets nested into another movie.

I will do up a part 3 to show what happens when multiple movies, each with chapters are opened in the Burn editor part.

Enjoy your vacation!

John CB

Thank yo both for the time it took to make the videos. What you have shown me with a current build of VPX16, the same can be done in PS26, albeit, differently.

Each project on the timeline is independent and can be exported independently. The process is different than VPX. I would not expect it to be the same. But the same thing can be done with the same results. Independent movies on the timeline and the ability to export each independently.

When I get back from vacation, I'll make a video showing how it is done in Pinnacle Studio.
 

@Reyfox

Hi Tony,

I don't see how you can equate multiple projects on a timeline (PS) to multiple movies in a project (VPX). You only have 1 timeline for the project in PS. Your projects on that timeline are not created in that project, they are created in separate projects. Any tabs that you have are project groups made up of material that was on the project timeline and have become nested into your project timeline.

I showed you a project with 4 separate timelines, each created in one and only project.

I await your return and a video.

Have a good one!

John CB

@browj2 you are wrong in your assessments. I can create a project from within that one timeline. The tabs are made up of totally independent assets that are on the timeline. And as I wrote before, I can have different timelines for the different projects on that one single timeline.

And while you showed me in your video how you do it, I wrote and said I can do the same thing in Pinnacle. So I guess either I am lying or I don't know what I am talking about. Which is it?

Again, I said the way it would work in Pinnacle is different than VPX, but I can do the exact same thing that you did, albeit slightly different.

Unless you are skilled in Pinnacle, how can you say what can and what can not be done?

@Reyfox

You still don't get it.

Please, I am somewhat intelligent and I am able to read, watch and comprehend, and push buttons in PS23, which I did. PS23 cannot create multiple independent timelines in one project the way that MMS/VPX can. And that is a fact.

Have you even bothered to open MMS to see how what I described and illustrated in great detail, works?

The tabs are made up of totally independent assets that are on the timeline. 

Yes, in PS the tabs are assets that are on the timeline and are not independent movies/timelines. The only ways to get those tabs are to:

1. Import an external project onto the timeline, which becomes a nested object on the PS timeline. Double-clicking adds a tab and presents a timeline to edit the elements of that nested object;
2. Group, Save Group as Project, which becomes a nested object on the PS timeline, then double-clicking that object adds a tab and presents a timeline to edit the elements of that nested object.

Importing a project onto the timeline, which gets a tab and a separate timeline to edit it, is not the same as having a separate, independent Movie/timeline in a project, at all.

I did both of the above in PS23.

Nowhere in PS is there a capability to add an independent empty Movie and start adding content to that Movie, then export (render) the contents of just that Movie to an MP4 file.

Nowhere in the PS 23 and 26 manuals do I see anything that remotely resembles having multiple independent timelines (Movies) in PS like in MMS/VPX. If it exists, then give me the page number.

The PS26 manual states that:

Nowhere does it state that you can have multiple timelines.

In PS, with a nested object on the timeline, double-click to get the nested group tab. Click back onto the timeline tab and pass the mouse over the other tab. There is an X to delete that tab. Do so. Nothing changes on the timeline; the nested object is still there.

In PS, double-click again to get the nested group tab. With focus still on this nested group tab, try to delete the first tab. You can't do it because that is the PS timeline and it has to exist. The nested group tab is not a separate Movie that can remain and be used if the first tab is deleted, which cannot be done.

In PS, with 2 nested objects on the timeline and the two tabs showing, as per my image above, one for each nested object, delete one of the nested objects from the timeline. Does its tab remain? No, it's gone - because it is not a separate timeline that can be used independently of the PS timeline.

In PS, double-click on the nested object to get the nested group tab back. This can be a nested project or a nested group. Click on it so that you have the details. Can you render the contents of this tab? Go to File, Export and you get the overall PS movie for export, not what is in the tab of the nested group. It is not a separate Movie in PS that can be rendered out.

The net effect is that there is only 1 actual timeline in PS for a project. The other timelines/tabs are the details of nested objects, not separate Movies. You cannot create and use a second separate and independent Movie in PS.

In MMS/VPX:

• For a Movie, a completely separate and independent timeline can be created by simply clicking on the + button beside the first Movie tab, then a third, fourth, etc. Nothing needs to be on any timeline to do this. There is no nesting required, no external project needs to be imported.
• Each Movie can have different settings as there are Movie Settings for each Movie. So one Movie can have 1080p 16:9 with 4 tracks showing, another 4K 16:9 with 16 tracks showing, another 1080p 9:16 with 32 tracks showing, and another 4k square 1:1. In the Movie settings, you see more information for the current Movie - including the used files for that Movie, and under the Project settings tab (which should actually be called Movie Settings) you can enter a description for that Movie, a date, and the preview thumbnail for that Movie. This is available for each Movie in the Project.
• Each Movie can have different overall Movie Effect Settings - top menu, Effects, Movie Effect Settings.
• Each Movie can be exported/rendered to an MP4 file - separate from any other Movies.
• A Project has to have at least one Movie in order to do something, meaning that it has to have a least 1 timeline. If you add a Movie, you can delete the first Movie; the second one remains. However, if you delete the one and only Movie that is left, you get a blank screen with no Movie at all and no timeline. To get a timeline back, File, Manage Project, Add a new Empty Movie, or import a Movie.
• The manual describes and defines Project, Movies and Objects.

A movie can be one single video clip or a combination of clips and photos. It can also include music, titles, transitions and much more. Each movie can be exported individually as a video.

• For burning to DVD/BR, each Movie can have Chapters (one is needed by default). If there is more than one Movie in a Project, going to the Burn screen will, by default, create a button for each Movie. Any movies that have more than one Chapter get an additional button to go to the Chapters screen for that particular Movie. The Movie Autumn has more than 1 chapter. This (multiple movies) is what @johnebaker mentioned as a requirement for using burning software.

EDIT: Maybe I should summarize it like this. In VPX one can create a dozen different movies - rendered MP4's from one Project. With PS, one can create the same dozen different movies - rendered MP4's, using 12 projects.

Now, are you still going to tell me that PS can do multiple movies like MMS/VPX?

John CB

@Reyfox

Hi

. . . . So I guess either I am lying or I don't know what I am talking about. Which is it? . . .

Neither, it is a misunderstanding of the VPX project file structure, and what can be done with it, that @browj2 and I are commenting on.

. . . . The tabs are made up of totally independent assets that are on the timeline. And as I wrote before, I can have different timelines for the different projects on that one single timeline. . . . .

However, that single timeline is the only timeline you have that can be exported to a video file, the different projects are 'grouped content' which, for want of a better word, are 'subcomponents' which can be displayed as timelines.

All my testing has shown that any one of those 'subcomponents' cannot be exported as a single video file with only its content from its tab, it has to be done by saving the subcomponent as a separate project file, if not already so, unlike VPX where you can have multiple real timelines in a single project.

I conclude that the project file structure of VPX, compared to that of PS, and that fits the behaviour of PS when trying to export any one of 'subcomponent' tabs is:

John EB

On vacation for 1 more week. When I get back will answer more completely.

Ok... I am back from vacation, sort of.

I see no point in continuing this "conversation". Because something can not be done exactly as it is done in VPX/MMS does not mean that it can not be done. I would not expect VPX/MMS to be able to color grade like Vegas Pro, or Davinci Resolve. Or even mask like Pinnacle can. There are some similarities, and in a lot of situations, the smae results can be achieved, just by different means. It's the editing road that is traveled to get there that will be different. Sometimes that editing road might be a little more complex, but the destination will still be the same.

I do not burn Bluray/DVD's so again, can not comment on them. Pinnacle even comes with additional software called MyDVD. I've never used it so can't comment on it either.

So, you all win. Hooray. VPX/MMS is better than an EOL (end of life) software that has seen no advancement in a over 2 years, in creating movies within movies within timelines.

Use what works for you and the style that you edit. Belittling (and yes, that is what is happening) other software (especially software that isn't developed anymore) does not add credibility to VPX/MMS, especially when it comes from users that have only a cursory knowledge of said software. There are things that PS can do that VPX/MMS still can not do, over 2 years later. But it serves no purpose bringing that up.