Thanks, John: I did look on that link which is a list of several other people asking similar questions and none of the answers are clear to me.. sorry, maybe it's just me, but this is all very confusing. I'm sure you get tired of this type of question, but maybe it ought to be made more clear with links, that would really help.

First, I started out dealing with Xara where I have bought graphics products in the past and where I got interested in the Magix Music Maker MX, then I got passed over to Magix who makes the Music Maker MX (v18?) and offers the Soundpools for sale. 

One of your answers in the legal questions seemed to say that if you own Music Maker 16 or earlier and use Solundpools 16 or earlier there is not a problem using the combined loops etc for commercial sale. Then, if I understood you corectly, if you have Music Maker 17 or 18 or use soundpools 17 or later you have to pay for a special "unlimited pro license" which you get at yet another website, "Catooh"?  I went to that website and they seem to be selling single loops, etc. and at different prices depending on how you use them. I could find no link to the sale of a "unlimited pro license" for Magix Sound Pools of for the sounds included with Magix Music Maker MX 18

Would you please clarify how much it will cost to get this "special license" and give a link to the information about it and how it is paid for? I really appreciate your help as the legal jargon is not very clear to me  nor is the relationship of Catooh to Magix, to Xara.  Thanks,

On the CATOOH website, you have to look in the "Collections" category to find the Soundpool Collections.

For each soundpool (if you click on them) you will find the complete licensing agreements and pricing.

On the US website, Soundpool 17 is the latest one available and it is the first one that requires the Unlimited Audio Pro License for commercial work.  I'm certain Soundpool 18 (MX) and all later additions will also have that requirement when they become available.

http://www.catooh.com/us/sys/id/Katalog/area/mediaDetails/item_id/222980/

This topic has been thoroughly covered in great detail several times over the last year.  I don't know how anyone can still be confused about it.  If you don't believe us, then read the documents for yourself.  All of the information you need to know is there.

Johnebaker: Thanks John,  Yes, I clicked on the Legal Information link and got this section of forum posts and questions which is why I am posting here.

Thanks Proycon for trying to help.  It must all seam very clear to you, but it isn't to me. On the Sony site for their sound editors and sound loops it seems much more clear as they spell out that the sounds are "Royalty Free" a common expression and they spell out how you can use the files as part of other creative efforts. Magix has not been very clear in this, nor has Catooh and that is why I would like some feedback and clarification from you and others who seem to understand it better then me, and obviously others who have asked similar questions.

ON the Magix website their License EULA regarding copy right states, quote:

"6. USE OF MUSIC, VIDEO AND PHOTO FILES: The music, photo and video files included in the MAGIX products may be used only for non-commercial purposes (exclusively for private purposes). Commercial use constitutes receipt of financial benefits through direct use of the files (through sale, licensing etc.)". ....snip..and,  "7. CLAIM FOR DAMAGES: MAGIX is entitled to proprietary and copyright protection for the licensed software as well as the music and video files. Anyone responsible for any violations against such rights may be sued by MAGIX." 

So, apparently, the free soundpools included with the Magix Music Maker MX can't be used for commercial money making use as part of another unique, created film, etc.. I called Magix and they told me on the phone that one would have to buy the Catooh Sound pools labeled "Audio Pro Unlimited" to use the sounds commercially and go by their license terms. The Catooh DVD Collection 17 & 18 are $200 and the older DVD versions are all $40 each. The Music Maker MX collection is $25 and the MX Premium collection is $40. 

But the Catooh License for the "Audio Pro Unlimited" series is not at all clear and makes no mention of "Royalty free" usage.. it reads in part:

The provider grants the customer ..snip..rights to the following commercial usage of the content:
a. Use in edited form or in the context of another work
(1) The customer receives the common and non-transferable right to edit and/or join the content with other pieces of work, and use the content or let it be used in the context of this editing or joining with another work:
(a) The customer is allowed to copy and distribute the edited or embedded content. The right to granting of time-limited permission to use (rental or lease) is excluded.
(b) The customer has the right to present the edited or embedded content or make it publicly perceivable using image or audio carriers.
(c) The customer has the right to keep the edited or embedded content publicly in a state of readiness.
(d) The customer is further allowed to broadcast the edited or embedded content, or to let it be broadcast.
(2) Definitions:
(a) An editing of the content is necessary only if the customer’s personal creativity is exhausted. Immaterial changes are not considered editing in the sense of this contract, and may only be applied according to the regulations utilized in paragraph 2. b.
(b) A connection to another work in terms of this contract exists if the content is connected to a different piece of work protected by copyright (for example, spoken or film piece), i.e., in the case of the object with which the content is connected representing an independent work in terms of the respective copyright specifications. A connection to commonplace objects does not represent a connection to another work according to the terms of this contract. The conditions outline in paragraph 3. (1) are to be respected.
b. Use in unedited form or outside the context of another work

I'm no lawyer and am not about to spend the money to hire one, but I also don't want to spend time learning this program and buying the sound loops etc., then find out that I can't use them with art projects I have planned for their use as background music, etc. on book/DVD projects I plan to sell, or in other commercial ventures where I combine them with other creative efforts I make.

Your comments and reassurance would be appreciated, not just a suggestion to read the license. I hope you and John can help. Sincerely, Doane

Doane,

I agree with you, Magix is not clear in their license terms and this is what we had been discussing in the past. I did not understand why can't they clearly mention license terms for usage. Otherwise we will not ask them about usage terms.

I also buy Professional sounds other than Magix and can say their terms are very clear.

I wish Magix should also think about user and provide full details in the license with Royalty Free Soundpools.

Additional info: you will be surprised other than these Soundpool DVDs from 9 to 16 which are Royalty free in older CD-ROM there are also Magix Soundpool some I got.

Some are Royalty Free some are not and it is not written on CD-Roms which one is not Royalty Free that is very confusing too. But I am very glad that Magix Team is very cooperatvie and they always help me whenever I needed their help. That is why I love Magix.

nihon94

Johnebaker: Thanks John,  Yes, I clicked on the Legal Information link and got this section of forum posts and questions which is why I am posting here.

Thanks Proycon for trying to help.  It must all seam very clear to you, but it isn't to me. On the Sony site for their sound editors and sound loops it seems much more clear as they spell out that the sounds are "Royalty Free" a common expression and they spell out how you can use the files as part of other creative efforts. Magix has not been very clear in this, nor has Catooh and that is why I would like some feedback and clarification from you and others who seem to understand it better then me, and obviously others who have asked similar questions.

ON the Magix website their License EULA regarding copy right states, quote:

"6. USE OF MUSIC, VIDEO AND PHOTO FILES: The music, photo and video files included in the MAGIX products may be used only for non-commercial purposes (exclusively for private purposes). Commercial use constitutes receipt of financial benefits through direct use of the files (through sale, licensing etc.)". ....snip..and,  "7. CLAIM FOR DAMAGES: MAGIX is entitled to proprietary and copyright protection for the licensed software as well as the music and video files. Anyone responsible for any violations against such rights may be sued by MAGIX."

So, apparently, the free soundpools included with the Magix Music Maker MX can't be used for commercial money making use as part of another unique, created film, etc.. I called Magix and they told me on the phone that one would have to buy the Catooh Sound pools labeled "Audio Pro Unlimited" to use the sounds commercially and go by their license terms. The Catooh DVD Collection 17 & 18 are $200 and the older DVD versions are all $40 each. The Music Maker MX collection is $25 and the MX Premium collection is $40. 

But the Catooh License for the "Audio Pro Unlimited" series is not at all clear and makes no mention of "Royalty free" usage.. it reads in part:

The provider grants the customer ..snip..rights to the following commercial usage of the content:
a. Use in edited form or in the context of another work
(1) The customer receives the common and non-transferable right to edit and/or join the content with other pieces of work, and use the content or let it be used in the context of this editing or joining with another work:
(a) The customer is allowed to copy and distribute the edited or embedded content. The right to granting of time-limited permission to use (rental or lease) is excluded.
(b) The customer has the right to present the edited or embedded content or make it publicly perceivable using image or audio carriers.
(c) The customer has the right to keep the edited or embedded content publicly in a state of readiness.
(d) The customer is further allowed to broadcast the edited or embedded content, or to let it be broadcast.
(2) Definitions:
(a) An editing of the content is necessary only if the customer’s personal creativity is exhausted. Immaterial changes are not considered editing in the sense of this contract, and may only be applied according to the regulations utilized in paragraph 2. b.
(b) A connection to another work in terms of this contract exists if the content is connected to a different piece of work protected by copyright (for example, spoken or film piece), i.e., in the case of the object with which the content is connected representing an independent work in terms of the respective copyright specifications. A connection to commonplace objects does not represent a connection to another work according to the terms of this contract. The conditions outline in paragraph 3. (1) are to be respected.
b. Use in unedited form or outside the context of another work

I'm no lawyer and am not about to spend the money to hire one, but I also don't want to spend time learning this program and buying the sound loops etc., then find out that I can't use them with art projects I have planned for their use as background music, etc. on book/DVD projects I plan to sell, or in other commercial ventures where I combine them with other creative efforts I make.

Your comments and reassurance would be appreciated, not just a suggestion to read the license. I hope you and John can help. Sincerely, Doane

We've all acknowledged that MAGIX could do a much better job of not only clearly delineating the features of their products but also the restrictions and limitations.

I've said this before....part of the problem here is that there are people who do not have an adequate command of the English language trying to give people legal advice. While they certainly mean well, they are doing more to confuse people rather than to clarify.  For legal language to be of any use, it must be precise.

The reason MAGIX does not use the phrase "royalty free" in their license agreements is because it is not relevent.  ALL OF THEIR MEDIA, SOUNDPOOLS, and SAMPLES ARE "ROYALTY FREE". To understand why, you need to understand the definition of a "royalty".

A "royalty" is a FEE PAID BASED ON PROFIT.  MAGIX does not collect royalties.  It would be a nightmare to try and do so.  What they are now charging is a "licensing fee".  The licensing fee is a one time payment which gives you the "right" to use the media for commercial (profit-making) purposes.

If you note, for some of the sound packages on the CATOOH website, there are graduated licenses that limit the amount of commerial use you are permitted.  The more you pay...the more you are legally allowed to use it.  With "Unlimited Audio Pro" license, there is no restriction on the extent of usage.

Enough is Enough Procyon,

it is your nature to insult someone, you are proud of your English, while you do not ask Magix support about problems while I do and then I help users. You often insult users, you easily get angry while I don't. It is good you are an American, you speak English but you are far behind to confirm leagality with the Magix then talk you just talk right?

This is my warning to you stop insulting non English users here, or I must seek legal advice if needed to stop you for insulting anymore.

We've all acknowledged that MAGIX could do a much better job of not only clearly delineating the features of their products but also the restrictions and limitations.

I've said this before....part of the problem here is that there are people who do not have an adequate command of the English language trying to give people legal advice. While they certainly mean well, they are doing more to confuse people rather than to clarify.  For legal language to be of any use, it must be precise.

The reason MAGIX does not use the phrase "royalty free" in their license agreements is because it is not relevent.  ALL OF THEIR MEDIA, SOUNDPOOLS, and SAMPLES ARE "ROYALTY FREE". To understand why, you need to understand the definition of a "royalty".

A "royalty" is a FEE PAID BASED ON PROFIT.  MAGIX does not collect royalties.  It would be a nightmare to try and do so.  What they are now charging is a "licensing fee".  The licensing fee is a one time payment which gives you the "right" to use the media for commercial (profit-making) purposes.

If you note, for some of the sound packages on the CATOOH website, there are graduated licenses that limit the amount of commerial use you are permitted.  The more you pay...the more you are legally allowed to use it.  With "Unlimited Audio Pro" license, there is no restriction on the extent of usage.

I'm sorry you feel "insulted", but that is not my purpose or intent.  You are clearly getting too emotional and are missing the entire point of what I am saying.

You also assume too much.  You are not in a position to decide if and when I am "angry".  You don't know anything about me, and you don't know what kind of mood I'm in when I write a response.

We come from two completely different cultures.  What you call being "insulting" is considered being "honest" where I come from.  You may not like what I have to say or you may disagree with me, but that is not in itself evidence of any intent to insult.

BTW...I don't need to ask MAGIX about the issues at hand because I can read and understand the documents they have provided for just that purpose.  I'm sorry if that upsets you, although I can't imagine why it would.  I thought it was the purpose of this forum for those of us who do understand these issues to help those who don't.  Or am I mistaken?

We really need to keep these personal issues off of the main forum postings.  If you have a personal problem with me, you can always send a private message.

We've all acknowledged that MAGIX could do a much better job of not only clearly delineating the features of their products but also the restrictions and limitations.

I've said this before....part of the problem here is that there are people who do not have an adequate command of the English language trying to give people legal advice. While they certainly mean well, they are doing more to confuse people rather than to clarify.  For legal language to be of any use, it must be precise.

The reason MAGIX does not use the phrase "royalty free" in their license agreements is because it is not relevent.  ALL OF THEIR MEDIA, SOUNDPOOLS, and SAMPLES ARE "ROYALTY FREE". To understand why, you need to understand the definition of a "royalty".

A "royalty" is a FEE PAID BASED ON PROFIT.  MAGIX does not collect royalties.  It would be a nightmare to try and do so.  What they are now charging is a "licensing fee".  The licensing fee is a one time payment which gives you the "right" to use the media for commercial (profit-making) purposes.

If you note, for some of the sound packages on the CATOOH website, there are graduated licenses that limit the amount of commerial use you are permitted.  The more you pay...the more you are legally allowed to use it.  With "Unlimited Audio Pro" license, there is no restriction on the extent of usage.

Procyon: That was one of my concerns, they didn't use the term "royalty free" which would indicate that they could come back with  royalty demands... the whole point in my questions was to clarify what the Catooh license means as it wasn't clear to me, nor was the Magix relationship to the use of the sound loops clear when I was initially trying to figure out this multi company involvement in a software product. I asked several posts ago for some clarification and you are only now  giving more of a defined answer.. thank you, but maybe that is why nihon94 was upset too. Your earlier comment,  "This topic has been thoroughly covered in great detail several times over the last year.  I don't know how anyone can still be confused about it.  If you don't believe us, then read the documents for yourself.  All of the information you need to know is there."  My whole point was that the document wasn't understandable to me (and apparently to many others) and that if some of you understood it to please comment and explain what they are saying.

Since no one responed, except to say, read the earlier posts or read the license,  I had to go to the Catooh site and contact them directly to get what is a much more understandable answer, and it seems like that kind of answer could have been included in their license, or at least spelled out by some on this thread who say that they understand the whole thing, right?

Let's none of us get into some sort of flame war on this though, I appreciate all of your comments and input and I hope you all appreciate my trying to follow through and actually getting an answer from Catooh and Magix that seems to sum it up better then any I have seen in the previous posts.

Nihon94: I also want to thank you for trying to help and please don't worry about your English, I'm embarrassed that I can only half way communicate in Latin American Spanish with a bit of Japanese I learned while in the service years ago!

All the best to all of you and again, thanks.

doane,

I understand your frustration.  But, as someone who tries his best to answer people's questions (when I feel I can offer something useful), I get very frustrated as well.

Obviously, it gets tiresome answering the same questions every few days because people refuse to do a simple search, or even read back a couple of days, before posting their question.  It's equally frustrating when people refuse to provide any useful information and seem unable to compose a coherent sentence/paragraph.

In this case, I did a search for the answers I know I've given not all that long ago on the subject only to find them pushed so far back by a large number of inaccurate and incomplete responses to similar questions that no one would bother spending the time to find them.

I am considering an alternative approach, but unfortunately it seems my input, no matter how useful, is resented by some people here.

doane,

I understand your frustration.  But, as someone who tries his best to answer people's questions (when I feel I can offer something useful), I get very frustrated as well.

Obviously, it gets tiresome answering the same questions every few days because people refuse to do a simple search, or even read back a couple of days, before posting their question.  It's equally frustrating when people refuse to provide any useful information and seem unable to compose a coherent sentence/paragraph.

In this case, I did a search for the answers I know I've given not all that long ago on the subject only to find them pushed so far back by a large number of inaccurate and incomplete responses to similar questions that no one would bother spending the time to find them.

I am considering an alternative approach, but unfortunately it seems my input, no matter how useful, is resented by some people here.

Procyon:  Yes, I know you were trying to help and I appreciate it. But, you should also realize that some people are completely new to all of this, like me, and it can be very confusing. I did searches and as I said, I didn't find any clear, concise answers, so I had to go to the source, Magix help on the phone, and Catooh help, and thankfully I got some very clear, reasurring answers. Maybe I just missed yours, buried back there somewhere. Maybe, also, if enough people complain, Catooh and Magix will make their license policies easily spelled out right on the website, or at least on stickiies on the forum so others can find it easily. Language barriers can make people sensitive, so can complicated legal explinations that can also be simplified if one wants to,  I'm sure you realize that, so don't take it as resentment. All the best to you and thanks again for your input.

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program! 

Wow, that is a great news. Thank you for the information.                                                                                           Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds and FREE. Am I dreaming? But I am happy. great job Magix and my friends there.

nihon94

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program! 

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program! 

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program! 

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program! 

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program! 

I installed my boxed version of MX18 last weekend and then downloaded the free 2,000 extra sound loops from the Catooh site. I was very pleased to find that the free dowload are rated as Audio Pro Unlimited license sounds which means they can be used for commercial use. That made me less disappointed that the boxed included loops are only for private use.

Thanks, Magix, excellent program!