@FF22 They are nodes on the volume curve, you can drag them up & down, double click on the line to create one or double click on one to delete it, right click on that track where there is no object to remove that green line curve,

@FF22

Hi

When posting screenshots can you ensure that all occupied tracks are fully visible - in your image above the music objects are only partially showing so we cannot see what is happening to them.

Making the timeline pane full screen and increasing the heights of the tracks helps for taking the screenshot eg like this

Thanks

John EB
Forum Moderator

@FF22

While it's not impossible that you have found a bug, based on your other topic and this, in all probability the audio is getting messed up by user input. For example, the green volume curve can only be activated by you.

You really need to go back to basics so you can plainly see what is going on.

Set the program to display audio on a separate track (previously explained)

Set the program to display the audio waveform (previously explained)

Turn off Track Curves and the volume curve.

On the audio objects, reset all the audio effects.

Now the timeline will clearly show you every audio object, including the audio in your MP4, so you can plainly see what is going on.

Then you can commence changing the overall volume (centre vertical adjuster) and fade it out and in with the audio object end handles. If you want to duck the music volume temporarily while your video is playing, then use the green Volume Curve feature as shown in @johnebaker's screenshot by setting the nodes: black-headed pointer on green line>left click then drag up/down, left right as desired.

@Former user

They are nodes on the volume curve, you can drag them up & down, double click on the line to create one or double click on one to delete it

Gid, for audio ducking, aren't you better off just using the volume curve as opposed other the track curve? For a start, you only have to click once to set a node in volume curve mode.

@AAProds

Hi Al.

for audio ducking, aren't you better off just using the volume curve as opposed other the track curve? For a start, you only have to click once to set a node in volume curve mode.

It depends on what you want to do and how you work.

The curve tool does not adjust the mixer volume slider position. Nor does using a double click with the mouse mode unless the Auto button on the channel strips volume button is active. It is easier in my opinion to watch slider / pan positions in the mixer than trying to track all the volume curves if using a lot of audio tracks.

The curve tool can be difficult to get a smooth reduction in volume over a given time period leaving a myriad of control points in in it's wake. Single mouse mode uses the same volume curve as recording the volume slider in the mixer and will show up as slider movement in the mixer when the auto button is activated. The curve tool adjustments are ignored by the mixer but still applied to sound level of the track.

Resetting the volume curve (right click from menu) does not erase the volume or pan curves produced by the curve tool which will still effect the volume / pan.

Unticking the 'Volume curve' in the drop down box does ignore the volumes set by the curve tool but does not erase them.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I see that you still have not watched my tutorials on Everything Audio in MEP/VPX. You have somewhat mixed up track and object curves and their functions and tools and how to use them.

@FF22 - You should watch my two tutorials on Everything Audio in MEP/VPX.

Here is part 1:

The beginning of part 2 explains object volume curves.

Assuming that I got everything correct, here is how it all works.

There are 2 audio curves available - Track Volume Curve and Object Volume Curve. They are separate. Ray, the draw Curve tool is a tool, not a curve. It applies only to Object Curves, not to Track level curves. The Curve tool can be used on any effects curve, not just audio. More on this later.

Track Volume Curve - this is mainly for easily ducking or, as Magix calls it, damping, or using the Mixer sliders in Automation mode. This should only be done at the end when no more moving objects around will be done as adjustments to a track curve do not move with objects. If you want a curve to move with an object, use the Object Curve. Points on a Track Curve can be added, moved, deleted manually and without having Automation turned on in the Mixer. When A is on, the Mixer fader can be used to add/adjust points using the fader, but only during playback.

This is difficult during playback as it is already too late to move the fader - you have already heard that the volume is too soft or loud and you are reacting after the fact. It's fine for a mixer in a live performance when the sound person needs to adjust the volume for one instrument/singer/speaker or another, but not in something that is already recorded. In a recording, you look at the waveform and listen and make the adjustment accordingly - like before you hear the sound, not after, which is the case of reacting after the fact using the mixer fader. You can, of course, do this if you want, then look at the volume that you chose and go back and make adjustments to the points to get the correct location of where you actually want the volume to change, or not.

To add a point, double-click on the track curve (when the cursor arrow turns black with white outline).

To move multiple points, use either Shift or Ctrl and select the points to be moved and while still holding down Shift/Ctrl, drag one of the points.

To delete points, double-click on them. As far as I have found, you can only delete one point at a time.

For ducking/damping, all audio tracks except the track with the selected audio get reduced by the amount that you select. It is important that the selected audio object be cut before and after the part that will have the damping as the tool will damp over the duration of the object.

Object Volume Curve - this is an Audio Effect and is for adjusting the volume of just the object over the duration of the object. It is entirely separate from (but cumulative with) the Track Volume Curve. You can put points on the object curve with the mouse (single click when the cursor changes from a hand to a black arrow with white outline) or by using the Curve tool (Drawing mouse mode shortcut 9, always remember to turn off the curve tool afterwards by selecting another mouse mode). These points are Keyframes and you can see this in the Effects tab, Audio, General, Volume. Any points on the Object Volume Curve will show up as keyframes. You can add, delete, move the points on the curve on the object or in the keyframe area. You can move/delete multiple keyframes only in the Keyframe area by selecting one or more points (hold down Shift and select first and last point or hold down Ctrl and select individual points).

Resetting the volume curve (right click from menu) does not erase the volume or pan curves produced by the curve tool which will still effect the volume / pan.

Ray, you have mixed these up. Right click on an object with a Volume Curve that is set and that is on a track that has the Track Curves turned on and there are three possibilities:

1. Reset Track Curves - and you can select Volume or Balance. This will remove the points from the Track Curve (Volume or Balance) and turn it off. There are some nuances here that I won't go into.
2. Volume Curve - this turns the Object Volume Curve on or off. Any points that have been set will still be in the Audio Effect as a keyframe, but the box of the Volume Effect will be unchecked. This is the same with all effects - you can turn the object curve on or off in the keyframe area. Look at Effects tab, Audio, General, Volume and you will see the Volume with a checkmark (see image above). You can turn the object volume curve off and on in the keyframe area and even change the colour of the curve. You can remove the points by either clicking on the X (in MMS2024) at the upper right of the window (removes all effects) or by opening the dropdown beside Volume in the keyframe area and selecting Delete Effects which removes the effect entirely, or Delete Effects Curve which leaves Volume open in the keyframe area but removes the points.
3. Audio Effects/Reset Audio Effects - this will reset all audio effects on an object; it does not affect track audio effects. The Audio Effects affected are those under Effects tab, Audio, General.

In addition to all of that, each audio object has its own volume slider - the middle handle which raises and lowers the volume of the object, and fade-in/fade-out handles at the beginning and end of the object. Raising or lowering the volume handle is separate from the Object Volume Curve; you get the cumulative effect.

Priority:

1. Master Volume (Mixer) - controls the final output level.
2. Track Volume (Mixer) - controls the volume level of the track and everything in it.
3. Object Volume handle - controls the maximum volume of the audio object. This is sent to the Mixer where the Track Volume and finally the Master Volume control the final output.
4. Volume curve effect - adjust the volume according to any set points. The maximum will top out at the level set by the Object Volume handle.

Lastly, and one of the main reasons to have Video and Audio on separate tracks - if you Mute a track that has Video/Audio on one track, you are turning off both the image and the audio. This is the speaker button in the track header and it is linked to the M button in the Mixer. Thus muting using M in the mixer will turn off everything - audio and image - on that track. To mute just the audio, it has to be on a separate track. Another important reason is to see what audio there is and the associated waveforms to that you can make adjustments. Do not keep the audio hidden away in a video object.

Notes:

• VPX has separate buttons for muting image and audio; MMS does not.
• VPX also has a Volume slider in the track header that is linked to the Mixer volume fader; MMS does not.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

There are 2 audio curves available - Track Volume Curve and Object Volume Curve. They are separate. Ray, the draw Curve tool is a tool, not a curve. It applies only to Object Curves, not to Track level curves. The Curve tool can be used on any effects curve, not just audio. More on this later.

Agreed. I was only talking about use with audio.

Track Volume Curve - this is mainly for easily ducking or, as Magix calls it, damping, or using the Mixer sliders in Automation mode. This should only be done at the end when no more moving objects around will be done as adjustments to a track curve do not move with objects. If you want a curve to move with an object, use the Object Curve. Points on a Track Curve can be added, moved, deleted manually and without having Automation turned on in the Mixer. When A is on, the Mixer fader can be used to add/adjust points using the fader, but only during playback.

Agreed. I don't think I implied different.

This is difficult during playback as it is already too late to move the fader - you have already heard that the volume is too soft or loud and you are reacting after the fact. It's fine for a mixer in a live performance when the sound person needs to adjust the volume for one instrument/singer/speaker or another, but not in something that is already recorded. In a recording, you look at the waveform and listen and make the adjustment accordingly - like before you hear the sound, not after, which is the case of reacting after the fact using the mixer fader. You can, of course, do this if you want, then look at the volume that you chose and go back and make adjustments to the points to get the correct location of where you actually want the volume to change, or not.

Disagree. If the system is powerful enough (fast enough ram in particular couple with a fast CPU) the audio sampling rates and buffer can be reduced to a point that playback and movement of the sliders can be almost instantaneous with the caveat that the more audio tracks there are the more likely you are to need to increase one or both of those in order to get a reliable sound. I have always complained it is one reason I don't like using video editors for mixing sound tracks.

To add a point, double-click on the track curve (when the cursor arrow turns black with white outline).

To move multiple points, use either Shift or Ctrl and select the points to be moved and while still holding down Shift/Ctrl, drag one of the points.

To delete points, double-click on them. As far as I have found, you can only delete one point at a time.

Agree. I would like a dedicated eraser instead for deleting nodes but it is what it is.

For ducking/damping, all audio tracks except the track with the selected audio get reduced by the amount that you select. It is important that the selected audio object be cut before and after the part that will have the damping as the tool will damp over the duration of the object.

Totally agree.

Object Volume Curve - this is an Audio Effect and is for adjusting the volume of just the object over the duration of the object. It is entirely separate from (but cumulative with) the Track Volume Curve. You can put points on the object curve with the mouse (single click when the cursor changes from a hand to a black arrow with white outline) or by using the Curve tool (Drawing mouse mode shortcut 9, always remember to turn off the curve tool afterwards by selecting another mouse mode). These points are Keyframes and you can see this in the Effects tab, Audio, General, Volume. Any points on the Object Volume Curve will show up as keyframes. You can add, delete, move the points on the curve on the object or in the keyframe area. You can move/delete multiple keyframes only in the Keyframe area by selecting one or more points (hold down Shift and select first and last point or hold down Ctrl and select individual points).

Got me: I totally forgot the keyframe element but was aware. It was a big point for me to ignore. Totally my bad. Possibly down to you have to have the Audio effects plugin selected in the effects section to be aware of it.

You are correct. I don't watch your videos. I missed how to activate the add / remove key frames in the audio key frame editor and as I haven't ever used the key frame editor for audio. Now I know I should. Thanks for that.

Resetting the volume curve (right click from menu) does not erase the volume or pan curves produced by the curve tool which will still effect the volume / pan.

Ray, you have mixed these up. Right click on an object with a Volume Curve that is set and that is on a track that has the Track Curves turned on and there are three possibilities:

Conceded. As with all your other statements below. I got my proverbials mixed up. No excuses.

Reset Track Curves - and you can select Volume or Balance. This will remove the points from the Track Curve (Volume or Balance) and turn it off. There are some nuances here that I won't go into.

Volume Curve - this turns the Object Volume Curve on or off. Any points that have been set will still be in the Audio Effect as a keyframe, but the box of the Volume Effect will be unchecked. This is the same with all effects - you can turn the object curve on or off in the keyframe area. Look at Effects tab, Audio, General, Volume and you will see the Volume with a checkmark (see image above). You can turn the object volume curve off and on in the keyframe area and even change the colour of the curve. You can remove the points by either clicking on the X (in MMS2024) at the upper right of the window (removes all effects) or by opening the dropdown beside Volume in the keyframe area and selecting Delete Effects which removes the effect entirely, or Delete Effects Curve which leaves Volume open in the keyframe area but removes the points.

Audio Effects/Reset Audio Effects - this will reset all audio effects on an object; it does not affect track audio effects. The Audio Effects affected are those under Effects tab, Audio, General.

In addition to all of that, each audio object has its own volume slider - the middle handle which raises and lowers the volume of the object, and fade-in/fade-out handles at the beginning and end of the object. Raising or lowering the volume handle is separate from the Object Volume Curve; you get the cumulative effect.

Priority:

Master Volume (Mixer) - controls the final output level.

Track Volume (Mixer) - controls the volume level of the track and everything in it.

Object Volume handle - controls the maximum volume of the audio object. This is sent to the Mixer where the Track Volume and finally the Master Volume control the final output.

Volume curve effect - adjust the volume according to any set points. The maximum will top out at the level set by the Object Volume handle.

Lastly, and one of the main reasons to have Video and Audio on separate tracks - if you Mute a track that has Video/Audio on one track, you are turning off both the image and the audio. This is the speaker button in the track header and it is linked to the M button in the Mixer. Thus muting using M in the mixer will turn off everything - audio and image - on that track. To mute just the audio, it has to be on a separate track.

Do not disagree. splitting audio from video is only ever a bonus.

Thank you for your corrections.

Ray.