Status Format Measures and Beats frame numbers showing incorrectly

David-Burgess wrote on 2/21/2022, 3:18 PM

Sound Forge Pro v15.0 (Build 161) Windows 10

I have a DJ track that has a slight tempo drift that I need to fix, I wanted to do this in SF Pro using the Event Edit tool to move the beats into a correct timing position.

I was able to achieve this edit in Cubase, but it drastically changed the sound of the audio (not good)

I then tried to do the same in SF Pro knowing that the audio would be good because it would just be crossfading instead of a time stretch algorithm keeping the audio quality intact.

I am having a problem the frame numbers showing incorrectly when I set Measures and Beats from the Status Format menu.

I did my edit and moved all the beats into the correct time against the frame numbers in the edit window and saved the track and then loaded it into my DJ app (Traktor Pro 3) this is when I realised that there is an issue because the overall tempo had changed from 126.000 bpm to 125.984 bpm.

This made me take a good look at what was going on in SF pro and as far as I can tell the frame numbers are incorrect because if you set snap to grid the snap points don’t line up to the frame numbers.

Also, the snap to grid feature is not working correctly I am still having to manually trim loops to get them to show correct length in the edit tempo menu.

Please can somebody have a look at this a verify the problem or the mistake I’m making before bring to the attention of technical support.

Comments

rraud wrote on 2/21/2022, 5:27 PM

Welcome to the Magix Sound Forge users community @David-Burgess,

Measures-Beats is a time display option and cannot change the playback speed.
I would use the 'elastique timestrech' in the "Process> Time" menu, which can change the speed (tempo) without changing the file's pitch (or a selection of).. though pitch shift is an option with or without speed change.

Changing the 'Properties> Sample rate' would change the speed and the pitch like increasing/decreasing speeding up/down a R-R tape.

There are no bugs with the 'Snapping' behavior in "Options> Snapping" The options are, global Enable/Disable; snap to- Grid, Markers, Event edge or Zero crossing.

The "Quantize to Frames" option (when enabled) can also cause havoc with precise edit selection.

David-Burgess wrote on 2/21/2022, 6:35 PM

Hi rraud

Thanks for taking time to look at this

It’s difficult to explain without pictures I have a few screen shots that would explain what I’m talking about.

The problem is the Measures & Beats frame numbers are wrong they don’t line up with the grid lines

when I zoom into the 8th beat in an 8 beat loop, I can see the problem and taking a close look at the end of the loop I can also see the final frame number is outside of the loop length.

You mentioned the Quantise to Frame feature could be an issue how can I tell is this is enabled or not?

Edit I managed to upload an image of the 8th beat and loop end + edit tempo to show the loop is cut to correct length.

rraud wrote on 2/22/2022, 10:45 AM

I am not sue what you want to achieve. Have you looked in the Sound Forge Help menu and the PDF manual? The PDF file can be downloaded from the Magix Service Center> My Product

The 'Grid lines' can be hidden or the divisions can be set different if that what your are seeing,
"Quantize to Frames" can be enabled/disabled in menu or the keyboard shortcut .. both these items are in the root 'Options' menu.

 

David-Burgess wrote on 2/22/2022, 2:57 PM

I found a solution to the problem

I inserted markers on the grid marks and created a 16-beat sample accurate loop at precisely 126 bpm

I then muted the loop and pasted it over the track starting at the 1st beat this left just the markers and the original track and repeated the process until the whole track had markers showing the correct timing position per beat.

This then let me use the Event Edit tool to cut and move the beats to the markers to make my corrections per beat (took over 3 hours to adjust every individual beat).

The end result is a track that now is precisely 126 bpm (confirmed in my DJ app) and the audio is perfect no time-stretch artefacts or fazing.

So, in conclusion there is a problem as I described before, the ruler numbers in the edit window are incorrect when set to Measures & Beats furthermore there is also a problem with the snap to grid not snaping precisely, you can try this for yourself see if you can make sample accurate 8 beat loop at 126 bpm using snap to grid then check out the loop length in the edit tempo menu, the one’s I made were incorrect and I had to manually cut them to the correct length.

One thing that has crossed my mind is that I’m doing all this work at a sample rate of 48.000

This is because my sound card only plays at 48.000 not 44.1, I’m wondering is this is what’s causing the ruler numbers in the edit window to be incorrect.

The pictures show a muted 8 beat loop with a marker inserted at the correct beat position and a picture showing beat marker number 8 zoomed in, notice the ruler marks are offset per beat against my corrected markers, this is what I’m talking about.  

rraud wrote on 2/22/2022, 5:07 PM

You could try re-sampling to 44.1k and see if that makes any difference.

If Snapping is enabled to Zero crossing, the could cause imprecise edit selection, otherwise with snapping disabled, data selections can go down to the sample level.

I ratily work with beat and measure displays, usually SMTPE timecodes and record-run displays at the millisecond level.

Acid Pro may be worth a try if you are looping music selections.

David-Burgess wrote on 2/22/2022, 5:42 PM

Thanks that did the trick

I have just changed the sample rate to 44.1 within the loop I created and now the problem is gone and the ruler numbers in the edit window are correct and the snap to grid is working correctly.

So the problem occurs when working at a sample rate of 48.000

The pictures shows the correct ruler numbers in the edit window and the end of the loop.