Sound Forge Minimal Video tools; what do I need next?

murrayatuptown wrote on 3/7/2024, 11:33 PM

I have been using Sound Forge (v.13, then 15) to infrequently )once a year or two years) perform minimal video functions on MP4 music videos recorded on a phone, like audio enhancement, trimming file length, and saving video with audio as a reduced video bit rate MP4 output file. I realize it is not a video tool, but it used to suffice for me. I was even able to correct video frame rate in files from older (non-phone) cameras that didn't import correctly. I don't use those anymore. I have been using Google Pixel (original 2016) phones with Cinema FV-5, a Saramonic Smart Rig II and, believe it or not, cardioid percussion mics. I am actually shocked at the high quality for YouTube or Google Drive playback. I don't know the video bit rate the 1920x1080 files contain. Someone said 42 MBps is typical of this phone. In past years (maybe Sound Forge version) I was able to save 6 MBps. A much older point & shoot camera hacked with an XLR jack produced 14.5 MBps. I cannot even figure out how to see the video bit rate (only the frame rate) in SF15 this time around.

I realize it is not a video editor but it was pretty powerful for MINIMAL video tasks in the past (but I DID upgrade).

I am in a jam, mid-project, in part due to some requirements I cannot figure out how to do, or because a function is not supported any longer in Sound Forge 15. I am unable to tell what my problem is (it very well could be operator error, as two years have lapsed since my last project.

So maybe it's actually time for me to purchase a video software package. There are too many choices here! Some are WAY beyond my needs. I am hoping to figure out what is too simple a program available and what I will never need. I don't need keyframes, etc. I just want to cut or 'splice' video segments with the included video, and not lose video/audio synch. In the past I had attempted detaching video, processing audio, then reattaching video. Or discarding the audio, and using separate PCM recorded audio and I could never regain audio/video synch. Lesson learned: never separate the audio & video produced in one device, and I'll never risk that problem. This was also advice given me by a software engineer. This is already too wordy, so I'll skip posting his explanation. If you'd like to know, I'll share. It makes sense to me.

Big Problem 1) I would like to cut the long videos into individual 'songs' and save each 'edit' with either NO video bit rate reduction, or at a rate suitable for Google Drive or YouTube. This year with Sound Forge 15, I have not been able to save as a .mp4 output without unusable resolution. I didn't have a problem with this previously. I would be happy to save with the 'native video resolution' but I don't recognize an output setting option for MP4 in Sound Forge that isn't awful (faces unrecognizable!) now. This is my biggest problem. I have been unable to save trimmed MP4 files as MP4 without severe video resolution reduction. I thought the Custom tab in the output settings used to allow a bit rate selection. I tried, incrementally several levels of increasing quality, but some (like 1920x1080-60 Blu-Ray 25 Mbps were incompatible with online playback (probably were intended to burn to disc and not stream).

Smaller Nuisance Problem 2) Less importantly, I would like, if possible to 'restitch' a fragmented video that overlaps the end of one MP4 file and the beginning of another MP4 file. I realize this may require a lot of memory. If it's impractical, I just have to avoid the mistakes that caused this in the future.

More details to clarify how I realized I can't figure out why SF15 seems less capable now, or what product addresses these specific needs.

I recorded long concert videos with little stop/restart for some artists and a funeral. I thought I had set the resolution lower, but ended up with 54 GB of 1920x1080 videos, and the 3rd party camera app broke up long videos into 3.8 GB (12 minute, 55 second) files, resulting in fragmented content overlapping two videos. I know how to avoid this in the future. I already said 'DUH' to myself. You don't have to tell me.

Thank you (for reading and) for any help choosing a video editing program from Magix.

Murray

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Comments

johnebaker wrote on 3/18/2024, 5:35 PM

@murrayatuptown

An alternative method to get a more universal MP4 file formatted video, is to use the video converter Avidemux as follows:

Load the original video into Soundforge, detach the video, make any effects/cleaning adjustments as necessary, and save the audio as wav (best) or mp3.
In Avidemux load the original video and follow through the video below.

Note: ensure you do not overwrite the original video file

HTH

John EB

murrayatuptown wrote on 3/19/2024, 6:23 PM

I used MyMP4Box GUI and successfully demuxed video & audio into H.264 and .aac MP4 files.

I then successfully muxed them back together with MyMP4Box.

So I moved back to SF15 to attempt doing my audio processing on demuxed .AAC components. The first de-muxed .aac file will not open in SF15 for unknown reason. I like the workflow and results I get with SF15 & hope I can get around this. Is opening an AAC file not a valid operation? Thank you

johnebaker wrote on 3/20/2024, 5:12 AM

@murrayatuptown

The initial demuxing is unnecessary and may be the cause of the issue.

Follow step 1 using Sound Forge as I gave above, then, working on a copy of the original file, use MyMP4Box GUI to replace the audio with the file you exported from Sound Forge - the software should have a similar option to Avidemux for doing this.

John EB

rraud wrote on 3/20/2024, 9:34 AM

MeGUI:
'Tools> Muxer> MP4'
Select your 'video input' file
Select your 'audio input' file
Click 'Queue'

murrayatuptown wrote on 3/30/2024, 11:55 PM

Thanks. I'm back. Had to do a brain transplant on the laptop.

I am going to finish this project as described above. I had initially steered away from AVIDemux because I hadn't looked at it yet and remembered an old video format .avi...and assumed that's what it was for. I now know that is NOT reality. So I am looking at both AVIDemux and MeGUI to see which I find preferable.

A side-track question for now:

I decided to take a look at Vegas because the pricing is actually not bad.

I looked at the 'basic' Edit version and the next level (Suite?), and downloaded the trial for the 'mid'-level' Suite version. It installed OK and I opened a video and looked around. Of course, it's different from what I have been using.

I assume my hardware is adequate or I would have been informed during installation if there were any problems.

I noticed a couple things I was not able to access.

Audio-Text and reverse conversion (requires 365 license). [Not a question; just an observation].

There was a drop-down menu option while a video was open, to open in Sound Forge 17. That was 'greyed out'. Maybe it was an invalid operation at that point, but I thought that might have been a path to do the 'detach video' and and audio editing steps.

To further test whether my hardware was sufficient, I thought I'd attempt a Save As operation but didn't get that far when I saw the Trial Version was limited to 2 minute duration.

So my question(s) are:

1) Request for any clarification you can offer on my Vegas Suite Trial preview observations above.

2) Are there any of the video detach, audio edit and A/V remux steps in my previous project I can do differently in Vegas Suite? (If I purchase Vegas 21 Suite, I can proceed with Sound Forge 17 and one of the external Remux tools suggested earlier, unless it is possible in Vegas Suite). Or I can save this learning curve for later, completing the project with SF & AVIDemux or MeGUI, and repeating the process in Vegas if that's an appropriate use as a learning task-having a specific goal makes more sense to me than random experimenting without an idea of what I am accomplishing.

Thank you

johnebaker wrote on 3/31/2024, 10:30 AM

@murrayatuptown

With respect to Vegas, this editor has its own forum, link is at the bottom of this page.

I would suggest you post any questions regarding Vegas there.

. . . . I assume my hardware is adequate . . . . . . . . .

Always compare your system specs to the software system requirements, the only assumption that should be made is that the minimum system requirements are those required to install, and run the program.

The minmum system requirements do not guarantee that the system will perform the same when using, for example, a HD 1280 x 720 video and a 4K UHD 3840 x 2160 video.

. . . . I would have been informed during installation if there were any problems . . .

The only time you are likely to get a warning is in one of 2 cases - the Windows version is too old for the software and vice versa.

John EB

murrayatuptown wrote on 3/31/2024, 7:23 PM

OK - thanks

rraud wrote on 4/1/2024, 9:11 AM

I thought I'd attempt a Save As operation but didn't get that far when I saw the Trial Version was limited to 2 minute duration.

That is a "Render as" limitation. 'Save' or 'Save as', creates the <.veg> timeline project file. No limitations there.

To open a new 'take' of an event or the event's entire media file directly in Sound Forge from within Vegas, the pertinent SF <.exe> must initially be selected as the "Preferred audio editor" in 'Options> Preferences> Audio'.

murrayatuptown wrote on 4/1/2024, 2:07 PM

Thank you.

murrayatuptown wrote on 10/8/2024, 12:10 AM

Hello:

I DID purchase Vegas Pro Suite v.21 but the learning curve looks like a brick wall at the bottom...totally different world. I have accomplished very little with it so far. I gave up trying to understand splitting and trimming with it for the time being so I'm back to clarify something about Sound Forge 17.

It is easy to zoom into the timeline and select sections of audio timeline for copying and reusing elsewhere, and delete sections, like idle chatter before a musical performance begins.

I'm almost embarrassed to say that I didn't realize highlighting and deleting intro portions of audio in videos using SF17 causes sync discrepancies because it removes only the audio.

So after editing audio in MP4 videos (EQ & compression), I use save-as in SF17 to re-encode (is it proper to call it render like in Vegas?) the video with processed audio.

I don't think I can trim sections of video & audio simultaneously in SF17. Please let me know if I am wrong, and just have been doing it incorrectly.

I have also gotten recommendations for open source tools for appending multiple videos, etc, and have had success. But I am not figuring out a way to trim the beginning of finished MP4 videos, removing both the audio and video without creating severe sync loss.

Is it possible in SF17, or perhaps an open source tool?

Thank you

Murray

murrayatuptown wrote on 10/8/2024, 11:03 AM

Giving MYMP4Box(GUI) a try again. Found that in earlier advice reply.

rraud wrote on 10/8/2024, 11:17 AM

I am not figuring out a way to trim the beginning of finished MP4 videos, removing both the audio and video without creating severe sync loss.

I do not use SF for editing A/V files, but I do not think 'trimming' both the sound and picture is possible with SF. Even if it was, the re-encode process would degrade the content to some extent. There are (free) apps (like MP4 Tool's, Joiner and Splitter) which allow cutting, adding and trimming MP4 files without affecting sync and without re-encoding (avoiding any generational loss), There are others as well, the video folks over on the Magix Vegas Video forum could probably recommend others.

murrayatuptown wrote on 10/8/2024, 11:32 AM

Thank you.

MyMP4Box split the beginning (2 seconds) and end (6 mins 2 secs) parts ok, but the Join menu wouldn't allow adding files to the task list.

So I tried AVIDeMux next. It worked with the two fragments isolated by MyMP4Box (maybe a lazy but not good assumption), but the audio of the beginning was out of sync.

I'll try the MP4(Tools), and maybe allow it to create its own pieces.

Just trimming will be a big cleanup and the one with the 2 second quirk was just fun but not important...musician looks at the camera & asks "How ARE you?" and the 2nd appended fragment is the music. Needn't be perfect.

Thanks again for your help.

Murray

murrayatuptown wrote on 10/8/2024, 8:49 PM

MP4Tools, including MP4Splitter worked easily and quickly. I was able to accomplish my splitting, trimming and joining needs!

Thank you.