SFPro 16.1.2/Windows locks up for a while when saving files

kent-williams wrote on 10/6/2022, 8:52 AM

My workflow:
1. Set up a mastering signal path in the "Plugin Chain", and tweak plugins until I'm happy.
2. Use "Save As..." to save the file to FLAC, which applies the processing chain.
3. The progress bar on the save usually gets to about 2/3rds then Sound Forge is unresponsive for as long as a minute.

I record to WAV, but save mastered files to FLAC, and then to MP3 for streaming. Saving to FLAC & MP3 both exhibit the long freeze at the end of rendering.

It appears - if I check in Windows Explorer - that when Sound Forge is unresponsive, the saved file has already been finished and closed.

So Sound Forge is doing SOMETHING for a long time, after it gets done, but I'm not sure what it is, and I wish it did less of it.

This gets better - for a while - if I use "File->Reset all preferences and cached data" - but if I do that I lose whatever changes I've made to preferences.

Comments

rraud wrote on 10/6/2022, 10:07 AM

When the render time meter hangs half-way up, The prompt to to open the "Do wish to open the file in a new window" dialog appears, just click yes or no. (if so selected in "Options> Preferences> General")

You can try "File> "Reset all preferences and clear cached data". This will reset most settings back to the factory defaults so custom user settings will have to be re-done.

That said, it is not generally recommenced re-rendering a lossy file to another lossy file format, regardless of alleged 'lossless compression' if maintaining quality is a factor.

btw, welcome to the Magix Sound Forge users community @kent-williams.

kent-williams wrote on 10/6/2022, 2:51 PM

FLAC is lossless, meaning that it's reversible - you can convert WAV to FLAC and back to WAV & it's a bit-perfect copy. Do you have evidence to suggest otherwise?
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/9kjwpb/is_flac_really_lossless/

rraud wrote on 10/7/2022, 12:28 PM

In my 'sum and difference' experiments it is not absolutely lossless with a music source, the difference may be inaudible to human ears though., as is the goal of most data compression formats. The compression quality setting is another factor.

kent-williams wrote on 10/7/2022, 4:17 PM

I think you may not be doing the sum and difference test correctly.
Here is a link to a zip file for the test I did.

  1. ChineseVoices.wav is a short recording I made from shortwave radio. I don't think they're actually speaking Chinese, that's just what I called it when I saved it.
  2. I opened ChineseVoices.wav and did a "Save As ..." to save it as ChineseVoices.flac
  3. I closed both files in Sound Forge, and then re-opened them. NOTE: both files have the exact same length in samples.
  4. In sound forge I copied ChineseVoices.flac to a new window - i.e. select all, copy, then Paste To New (or Ctrl-A to select all, Ctrl-C to copy, and Ctrl-E to copy to a new file.
  5. I inverted the temporary file.
  6. I copy all of ChineseVoices.wav, then I did a paste mix to the temporary file.
  7. The resulting file has an amplitude of zero, meaning that ChineseVoices.wav and ChineseVoices.flac are exactly the same bitstream.

So there's no difference between a WAV file and that file rendered to FLAC.

If you don't believe me, just download the zip, and repeat these steps and see if you get the same results.

the difference may be inaudible to human ears though.

It is inaudible because it does not exist.

rraud wrote on 10/7/2022, 5:53 PM

A music file is much more complex than voice. In my tests, even a mono 44.1k 320 kbs CBR MP3 narration file was essentially a mirror image, and when combined with the PCM master, canceled in excess of -120 dBFS. That does not mean an additional MP3-to-MP3 encode cycle would yield the same. Even a low res 120kbs stereo MP3 music file will have close to the same amplitude of a PCM, so that means little.
Flac file are certainly good sounding though. I have been using Perfect Clarity Audio to archival purposes for quite a while and the file size is close to that of a mid quality setting Flac. The PCA format is propitiatory though, so I could not just send it to someone that does not have Sony or Magix software, Most players these days have the Flac codec and will playback on just about any computer and smart phone.