@hatfieldphoto

Hi Phil.

If you want specific information on components or prebuilt machines that may do the job (often they don't as prebuilt machine often do not have both an Intel GPU on the CPU as well as an nvidia graphics card) then please tell us what resolutions and file types you use and what records them (camera/phone make/model etc,) and how much processing you typically do, project length etc.

This can give us clues as to how hard the machine may have to work for better suggestions. Don't forget to include possible future needs. If you don't build your own machines and rely on a supplier it can often be difficult trying to persuade some of them the need for the two GPUs which are of prime benefit when working any resolution although the lower the resolution and simpler the codecs in use, the less need there is for certain performance targets for the component list.

This topic on the Vegas website gives an insight into why certain components are of benefit and why.

But alas not how much to spend and is a bit short on specifics and what can in certain circumstances be slightly skipped on.

Ray.

@hatfieldphoto

Hi

For a laptop see my profile for the laptop I am using - this is my 'portable' video editing machine.

There were several factors in choosing the Lenovo over other brands, the main one being that they are the only manufacturer I found that specifically state that both the GPU's ie the UHD630 iGPU and the RTX 2060 can be used in 'Hybrid' mode ie they work together when video rendering so get the best of both worlds - this IMHO is a necessity.

Other manufacturers I queried on this either disabled the iGPU, did not know, or, in the case of one well known brand, would not tell me until I had actually purchased.

Things to note:

• The bigger the screen the better - 15" is IMHO too small, the 17" screen is much better
• Avoid 4K screens, the icons, text etc is too small to read comfortably - 1920 x 1080 is high enough.
• Weight - if you intend to travel by plane with this can be critical - mine is a bit of beast however I do fly with it as hand luggage.
• Using a powerpack is a must when rendering is a must
• I did not go for a higher spec RTX GPU ie the 30xx series as they pushed the price up by over 55% - not good value IMHO.

HTH

John EB

I just fired up MEP 2016 plus once more and reloaded the 4K clips and made proxies. It plays the timeline PERFECTLY. I'm going to try and render out the movie to 4K once more. I tried this twice before (prior to purchasing MEP 2022). The last 2 times the picture on the rendered movie disappeared to a blank, black screen maybe one-third of the way through, just leaving the audio. As a non techie person I'm sure you can all understand the incerdible frustration. I found others on the internet with the same problem. I didn't see an explanation or a solution.

So why does a 6 year old MEP play the 4k clips smoothly on my system (when the 2022 MEP cannot), and then only partially render out the edited movie. Be kind to me considering my age....I'll let you know how the latest attempt works out.

@hatfieldphoto

Hi Phil.

If you want specific information on components or prebuilt machines that may do the job (often they don't as prebuilt machine often do not have both an Intel GPU on the CPU as well as an nvidia graphics card) then please tell us what resolutions and file types you use and what records them (camera/phone make/model etc,) and how much processing you typically do, project length etc.

This can give us clues as to how hard the machine may have to work for better suggestions. Don't forget to include possible future needs. If you don't build your own machines and rely on a supplier it can often be difficult trying to persuade some of them the need for the two GPUs which are of prime benefit when working any resolution although the lower the resolution and simpler the codecs in use, the less need there is for certain performance targets for the component list.

This topic on the Vegas website gives an insight into why certain components are of benefit and why.

But alas not how much to spend and is a bit short on specifics and what can in certain circumstances be slightly skipped on.

Ray.

Ray, please see my last post about MEP 2016 smoothly playing back my 4k timeline clips but not completely rendering out the movie. To answer your question the latest camcorder is a Panasonic HC-X1500 which records in .Mov or .Mp4 (both formats have the same playback problem in MEP 2022). I use 4K all of the time. Mov files are described as 4:2:0 (10 bit) HEVC LongGop at 200 (or 150) Mbps. I wasn't aware you can use two GPUs. I can see myself shooting in HD only rather than sending 1000s on a new PC for the occasional video. It is a hobby after all. I am a retired professional photographer and my PC does everything I need for Photoshop and similar with large files - the only problem is video editing it seems. Most of my camcorder stuff is personal hols and the like running to an hour or so max.I am trying MEP 2016 again as I write this to see if the video fails to render again part way through leaving a blck screen with the audio - If I could have a solution to that I'd be happy (except for the fact that I bought 2022 for no reason - at present anyway.) Thanks again, Phil.

 

I think I wrote in the wrong box. Here it is a again in black rather than grey:

Ray, please see my last post about MEP 2016 smoothly playing back my 4k timeline clips but not completely rendering out the movie. To answer your question the latest camcorder is a Panasonic HC-X1500 which records in .Mov or .Mp4 (both formats have the same playback problem in MEP 2022). I use 4K all of the time. Mov files are described as 4:2:0 (10 bit) HEVC LongGop at 200 (or 150) Mbps. I wasn't aware you can use two GPUs. I can see myself shooting in HD only rather than sending 1000s on a new PC for the occasional video. It is a hobby after all. I am a retired professional photographer and my PC does everything I need for Photoshop and similar with large files - the only problem is video editing it seems. Most of my camcorder stuff is personal hols and the like running to an hour or so max.I am trying MEP 2016 again as I write this to see if the video fails to render again part way through leaving a black screen with the audio - If I could have a solution to that I'd be happy (except for the fact that I bought 2022 for no reason - at present anyway.) Thanks again, Phil.

Stop press. MEP 2016 has rendered out the complete 10 minute clip with no blank screen - at the third attempt!

@hatfieldphoto

Hi Phil.

Basically, newer programs are just designed to use newer components to cope with newer codec wrappers and resolutions from new cameras,phones etc. MEP 2022 now handles 8K video whereas MEP 2016 does not. Whether you use it or not it is a part of the core program and needs additional support from the hardware.

My own personal viewpoint is if I don't have the latest components and have no need to upgrade then I don't really need to update the program unless other forces come in to play such as having to update the operating system.

You don't really get the benefits advertised without the supporting hardware. Even some of the offered third party effects could need newer components to work effectively.

Although my own system still supports the latest versions of MEP and VPX I am currently only upgrading MEP until such times as I can afford a better nvidia card. There is so little difference in the core program from the first version using the newer Infusion Engine that I really don't miss much of the newer VPX features and still plays smoothly enough with the file types and resolution I use.

Ray.

@hatfieldphoto

Hi Phil.

I have just read your latest posts.

I think the problem you are having is using 10 bit files which are much larger than using 8 bit files and will stress your computer components much more. 10 bit files do give you much more dynamic range (contrast) but to benefit you really need a 10 bit monitor as well to be able to see the difference and correct the footage to have a smooth graduation of contrast and colours. While some benefit can be seen with an 8 bit monitor it will not be as accurate a assessment of what is going on. The monitor would also need to be colour accurate and calibrated or you may be wasting your time and efforts.

I work in 4K 8 bit because I don't have a monitor or camera that uses 10 bit files yet but is calibrated. Even then my system can get stressed depending on the complexity of the project.

Ray.

Hi Ray, there IS an option for 8 bit 4K in the camcorder so I can give that a try next time - the chief frustration is that I can get along with 4K/10 bit in 2016 MEP when it behaves but, (so far), not in 2022. I suspect that when viewing on a TV I won't see much or any difference. However it would be nice to have a bit more "editability" of 10 bits if I've understood things correctly. Thanks.

@hatfieldphoto

There are certainly plenty of 10 bit monitors and TV screens out there now from Samsung and LG. It could be worth while using one of them to edit on but as I say, to take advantage of that you may have to upgrade the computer as well. Those extra two bits of bit depth alone means an 8-bit file works with RGB using 256 levels per channel, while 10-bit jumps up to 1,024 levels per channel. This means a 10-bit image can display up to 1.07 billion colors, while an 8-bit photo can only display 16.7 million.

That's a lot more processing power needed.

I'm also not sure MEP handles 10 bit files properly. I know VPX does.

Ray.

@hatfieldphoto

Hi

. . . . why does a 6 year old MEP play the 4k clips smoothly on my system (when the 2022 MEP cannot) . . . .

MEP 2016 uses old technology and may be taking advantage of the of the HD4000 or GTX 650.

In your case recording video at 10 bit depth (HDR) is not necessary, on exporting the extra bits in the source video are 'crushed' down to 8 bits.

The h.264 video standard does not support 10 bit. MEP 2016 and MEP 2022 do not support exporting at 10 bit depth (HDR) in h.265 (HEVC) format.

. . . . I can see myself shooting in HD only rather than sending 1000s on a new PC for the occasional video. . . .

I would agree that spending £1000 + is an unnecessary expense in your case. For me it was a necessary purchase as my old laptop, which was about 8 years old, was beginning to suffer from some hardware issues and could not run another program I use that requires more GPU power.

HTH

John EB

At the end of the day one might have expected that the latest software might perform better on the existing hardware than did the 6 year old version! It would seem a logical assumption...

@hatfieldphoto Hi, If you like you can put one of the files in a zipped folder, open Google, go to the top right corner there's a little sq made of dots, click it & open Google Drive, drag the zipped folder in there, right click the folder when it's loaded - Share, choose Share with anyone who has this link, Copy the link & post it on here using the chain button at the top of a new comment, we all have different sized computers & would be willing to try out your media to see if a new computer is your solution, or whether you're better changing the recording to 8bit & sticking with what you've got.... 👍

I wanted to see how MEP deals with 10bit files after read @CubeAce say 'not sure MEP handles 10 bit files properly' ,

I tried exporting a 4k MP4 to several different 10bit formats, i tried to use HEVC mainly, & most options i have for encoding @ 10bit are MP4 but i did find one that rendered to MOV HEVC 10bit 3840x2160, it won't match yours but it was as close i could get,

All played ok in MEP Premium but my pc is not a fair comparison to yours so if you could upload a sample that would be helpful,

I've inc the link for the one in the pic & i've filmed it being uploaded to Google Drive so you can see how it's done,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_EslZhIbPJV4JiB6Zb8Jovg_COET5yka/view?usp=sharing

@hatfieldphoto @Former user

Hi Gid.

As @johnebaker pointed out MEP does not export to 10 bit even though it can import such a file. The program does not contain,nor I think can handle the 10 bit colour profile for export which is not an option for MEP and is constrained to using BT 601 or BT709 rather than the option that VPX has of using BT 2020 that has a wider gamut.

I don't even know if MEP can show the wider gamut of a 10 bit file and I don't have an OLED TV or monitor to find out. Even my Samsung phone doesn't have that good a screen.

If you need wide gamut files to test you should visit these pages.

My system can't even download them.

Ray.

@CubeAce Thanks, a lot of this is beyond me but i take as a learning opportunity 🤯😁👍

I downloaded the bottom one of those files on that link,

MediaInfo tells me this .

General
Complete name                            : D:\desk stuff\Nvidia screen capture\A006C0002_210630_0000_6K_ProRes422HQ_24FPS.mov
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   0000.00 (qt  )
File size                                : 1.44 GiB
Duration                                 : 8 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 1 551 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-12-17 03:55:43
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-12-17 03:55:56
Writing library                          : Apple QuickTime
Cover                                    : Yes

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : ProRes
Format version                           : Version 0
Format profile                           : 422 HQ
Codec ID                                 : apch
Duration                                 : 8 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 1 550 Mb/s
Width                                    : 6 008 pixels
Height                                   : 3 168 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 1.896
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 24.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 3.393
Stream size                              : 1.44 GiB (100%)
Title                                    : Core Media Video
Writing library                          : Apple
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-12-17 03:55:43
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-12-17 03:55:56
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Other
ID                                       : 2
Type                                     : Time code
Format                                   : QuickTime TC
Duration                                 : 8 s 0 ms
Frame rate                               : 24.000 FPS
Time code of first frame                 : 00:01:53:22
Time code, striped                       : Yes
Title                                    : Core Media Time Code
Encoded date                             : UTC 2021-12-17 03:55:43
Tagged date                              : UTC 2021-12-17 03:55:56

Tried loading into MEP 😂 no MXMPEG2 codec found

But!! i might have to look into this more, because i loaded it into Vegas, it ran really smoothly first go, i would say it seemed smoother than one of my mp4 4k 3840x2160, so i loaded it twice & dragged over to make a crossfade, that too played smoothly, 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔,

As @johnebaker pointed out MEP does not export to 10 bit even though it can import such a file. The program does not contain,nor I think can handle the 10 bit colour profile for export which is not an option for MEP and is constrained to using BT 601 or BT709 rather than the option that VPX has of using BT 2020 that has a wider gamut.

Ray.

@CubeAce I was more focused on what was written above '.Mov or .Mp4 (both formats have the same playback problem in MEP 2022).' so i was thinking more about how they played not exporting, so duplicated that 10bit several times to make a 7min project & exported it no prob but yes i'm aware MEP doesn't export as 10bit, i had a look & so presumably the OP is just trying to render the files at whatever MEP offers,

@Former user @johnebaker

Hi Gid.

Here is an explanation of the file type you just downloaded that would almost be identical to those @hatfieldphoto can record. Using a 4:4:4: profile goes a few steps further down that rabbit hole.

If the computer is powerful enough it will find that file easier to play and edit as there is less compression to decode but for lesser systems the bit rate may be too much to process in real time. Plus you need those codecs on your system to use them and they have to be able to be handled by the editor.

Ray.

@CubeAce Thanks, i'll read that, I do understand a little about the 4:4:4: bit, i have this bookmarked & try to understand it, it's remembering the first bit i've read by the time i get to the end 😂🤯

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#:~:text=D%2D7-,4%3A2%3A0,rate%20is%20thus%20the%20same.

Thanks, I may try that and let you know here. I'm away for a short while at the moment. Thanks again, Phil.

@hatfieldphoto Hi, If you like you can put one of the files in a zipped folder, open Google, go to the top right corner there's a little sq made of dots, click it & open Google Drive, drag the zipped folder in there, right click the folder when it's loaded - Share, choose Share with anyone who has this link, Copy the link & post it on here using the chain button at the top of a new comment, we all have different sized computers & would be willing to try out your media to see if a new computer is your solution, or whether you're better changing the recording to 8bit & sticking with what you've got.... 👍

I wanted to see how MEP deals with 10bit files after read @CubeAce say 'not sure MEP handles 10 bit files properly' ,

I tried exporting a 4k MP4 to several different 10bit formats, i tried to use HEVC mainly, & most options i have for encoding @ 10bit are MP4 but i did find one that rendered to MOV HEVC 10bit 3840x2160, it won't match yours but it was as close i could get,

All played ok in MEP Premium but my pc is not a fair comparison to yours so if you could upload a sample that would be helpful,

I've inc the link for the one in the pic & i've filmed it being uploaded to Google Drive so you can see how it's done,

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_EslZhIbPJV4JiB6Zb8Jovg_COET5yka/view?usp=sharing

If I was to upgrade my graphics card from Nvidia Geforce GTX-650, what would be your recommendation for 4K/50P files? Magix says: Intel Graphics HD 630, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1050, or AMD Radeon RX470

Read more: https://www.magix.com/gb/video-editing/movie-edit-pro/specifications/
Follow us: Facebook

@hatfieldphoto Hi, can you go to your icon at the top, click it - My Profile, & fill in your Signature with your Magix version, Windows version & system specs, CPU, GPU, RAM etc. this will then show at the bottom of the comments & will make it easier to help 👍
 

Processor is    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3401 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)

16 Gb RAM, graphics card from Nvidia Geforce GTX-650, ASRock-H77 Pro 4M Motherboard, Windows 10 Home, I'll transfer that to my profile in due course. I was thinking of buying the NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1050. Thanks.