Thanks for the feed back. I know no program is perfect, heck I've tried AVID (friend is pro video editor who helped me learn it) just to find out PowerDirector (PD 11) has some better features and can build DVDs. Also, form what I saw with Sony and Adobe (consumer system) they are not for those who create prosumer type videos.

One last question: When one buys the full program, do you get more bells and whistles than with this trail version? PD 11 has more transitions than I've found in this trail. Plus, if multi segment fades isn't easy on MEP, then I may need to stay with PD 11. 

OK, one more question only (really): Is there more editing hot keys than JKL?

Thanks and Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

Hi,

Actually I do use Avid but that is on a dedicated system.  I do this for a living but my focus is on the average person who has way more photos and videos than they know what to do with and want a nice video that they can show friends and family with some nice transitions, titles and effects.  For these clients I use Movie Edit Pro because it is much less time and resource intensive, and the result that they are looking for is exactly what they want with this system.  If I have a corporate client who wants to produce a video for use in broadcast TV or to create client promos, I will use the Avid workstation.  Avid is really good for creating video for high budget productions, but for the average consumer, they will not notice the difference in quality versus the huge difference in cost for the production.

Actually Adobe and Sony (depending on which product you buy) can produce very good "prosumer" results.  The problem with Adobe is that you need to run it on a very high end system to keep it from crashing, and for me Sony has such a convoluted workflow and approach that I have no desire to spend time with it just because it is a "Sony" product. 

As for the trial versus the full purchase, yes you will get more transitions with the full version versus the trial depending on which full version you purchase.  But seriously, how many transitions and fades do you really need?  I will go back to the MEP workflow once again.  The way MEP works, I can create more of my own transitions and fades in a few seconds or at the most minutes than most other editors have as pre-sets.

I am not sure what you mean by "multi segment fades" so if you could describe or show me an example of what you mean by posting one on Youtube, I can either show you one in MEP or if I cannot create it I will tell you that as well.  I will bet that you cannot show me a multi segment fade that I cannot reproduce in MEP.

As for editing hot keys yes there are many more plus the ability for you to assign/re-assign your own hot keys.

I hope all of this has been of some help.

You have a very Merry Christmas and a fantastic New Year.

George

ps. I don't work for Magix so what you purchase makes no difference to me but I do want you to make an informed decision that you can live with after you buy.

If you go to the you tube video I did for Special Olympics TX. At time segment 40 to 1:05 I do titles, PIP in 2 locations and fad in out out on 3 segments (as I call them). If MEP can handle these items, then cool. As I try to do better with each video, more capable editor is next.

I like AVID's editing ability, but for a laymen like myself it is to complex to learn when you only do simple edits. Plus my professional video editor tells me PD 11 has better (and easier) titles than AVID. In fact he did an edit in AVID, gave me the movie and I am putting titles, music and such on it. I'd buy AVID student but I still have to go to PD 11 to burn the DVD, and I'm not good enough to remember all the steps to do some of the cuts and transitions.

I'd love the new Adobe Pro editor but not at 2k plus, and not easy for the laymen either. I was looking at Magix Pro x4 but didn't hear good reviews, so I stayed with PD 11. But if MEP has a better flow and editing capability then it may be the right choice. But not having found any tutorials for Pro X4 I really don't know if it is bad. In addition, if there are tutorials for MEP, that actually talk about the basics before you head to the advanced items, that would help me as well to get over the learning curve faster. Also, how does one get to your tutorials?

As for more fades, etc., I only use fade to black, simple cross over and sometimes push one way or another. So while I don't use bunches of stuff, I like the options cause it makes me think of other ways (less cheesie) to do things. That's why Creative cow videos for AVID was so much help in learning new stuff to use on PD 11.

Anyway. Thanks for staying with me on this thinking out loud process. As you can see I need several data points to make the $$ buy feel correct.

If you go to the you tube video I did for Special Olympics TX. At time segment 40 to 1:05 I do titles, PIP in 2 locations and fad in out out on 3 segments (as I call them). If MEP can handle these items, then cool. 

Hi,

Yes, MEP can handle PIP and fades. I'm not sure at first glance how I'd place a PIP inside a rounded rectangular border, so it might take few steps more than with the video editors you've used before.

-- 

Terry, UK

Thanks. The general PIP I've gotten, but using a oval or rounded mask is not anywhere to be found yet. Any suggestions of where to go and start looking?

The best I've been able to do so far is to make a separate white border with a transparent interior and position that around the PIP. But it needs to be a rather thicker border than that shown in your example, to ensure that the corners of the PIP are not visible.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Well thanks for the input. That would work if you make small radius with a moderate thick line. I could use the line with square corners. The border was just to help set off the image so any border will do.

Now for the real challenge, how to build an oval PIP that allows the area outside the oval to be transparent. Ya figure that out and you will be a hero, yet again. I have used your tutorial to get the oval, but the image outside the oval is black or faded, but not transparent.

Thanks for the help, yet again.

Hi,

All you really need to do is to use a graphics or photo applicastion set the background color to green, white, or black, draw an elipse, assign some color other than the one you chose for the background to the border assign the fill color to to be a mask (nothing) or assign it to be something other than the background or the border then remove that color.  Now you have a mask for the PIP video.  Use size and position along with key frames to move the mask and the video to where you want it to go.

George

Well that is an elegant answer. In order words use the process that PD 11 has created a shortcut for in their system. That way, I have a mask I can just flip up on the screen as an image. 

I can then do the same for a rounded edge box, or any other shape.

Thanks loads to both you and Terry for giving me some cool tricks.

FYI - I did a multi PIP fade at the same time. No issues at all. Which also means I found the simple fade to black tab in the frame. This I can make this work like the AVID fade, with much better control than PD 11. Just a few more tests and I may be able to fully justify buying this program for the few things I do.

Thanks again.

George and Terry,

Well I'm not a smart as I thought. I can't get this version to do what you 2 have suggested. It will barely perform the task that Terry lays out in his tutorial in a PIP, and getting it to handle that oval mask I made seems to be out of the question. So either I'm still not catching on, or this trial version is just too short on performance. I'm hoping for the latter, but not ruling out the former.

So if either of you can point to a more complete training video, maybe I can figure this dog out. But I'm thinking as long as I have the trial version, I think I'm out of luck in actually doing the oval mask inside MEP.

Thanks.

Jay W

Hi Jay,

There's scope for ambiguity here. The devil is in the details. After studying the following illustration, can you amplify a bit on what you've tried and where the problem arises?

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP-PIP-InsideShapes-1.jpg

In particular, taking my 'wide border' approach, do you need further details of how to do that? Beyond the stage I've shown, to get a perfect result with no corners showing, and no transparent gaps left inside the rounded rectangle, back in my image editor (PaintShop Pro 8 in my case), I increased the width of the border a tad, and then re-imported into MEP 2013.

--------------------

Turning to George's suggestion, maybe he will correct me but I think that involves further steps.

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP-PIP-InsideShapes-2.jpg

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP-PIP-InsideShapes-3.jpg

As you see from the following, the result is flawed.

Have you had consistently good results from PIPs in Power Director 11? My curiosity is now aroused as to how that program achieves it. And is the 'frame' always a rounded rectangle, or can you customise it?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry,

First, I have followed your Effects Masks PDF instructions and can get it to work on the first video track. However, when I tried a PIP I had to delete and start over almost every time. The issue is you must first add the effect and then try to reduce the PIP's size. But in all cases it is still a rectangle with some effect, and the effect has a set size (I couldn't get it to adjust much if at all independent of the PIP image). 

I haven't built a border and then bring it over as a mask, or just bring it in as a picture. When I built my own background like George suggested I didn't have much better luck. I did try to built a mask and then use the Chroma key to minimize a color, but it takes all of that color out all over the PIP and mask. So it is as you say flawed. Also, when I built an oval (ellipse is proper math term) video image and imported it to MEP, I had a black rectangle border, that I could remove with Chroma Key, but then all black departed the video image, and gave it a surreal effect. The method George has suggested sounded promising, but I cut to much color out, or hide the mask from the PIP image. If I could learn how to green screen better, maybe that would help.

Terry, for your last question: PD 11 has 52 different preset masks that you can put over any image. You can reduce or enlarge that mask independent of the image. You can add a border and shadows, but that is about it. The good thing is that when you put this mask on an image, the area you want to show is all you see. Under this same effect that they call modify, you can also add about 52 different preset movements. So there are some really cool and easy effects you can add. The problem is if you want anything out side these 52 preset masks, you will have trouble. PD 11 is like a point and shoot camera, you don't know how it works, it just works. But I like to know the hows of an issue.

You and George have just given me a thought. I will head over to the AVID tutorials and see how they resolve a similar issue. Maybe I can use one of their methods to overcome this.

Thanks as always.

Hi Jay,

No need for Effect Masks, etc! My white-bordered rounded rectangle with transparent interior wasn't made in MEP! "... back in my image editor (PaintShop Pro 8 in my case), I increased the width of the border a tad, and then re-imported into MEP 2013." That was why I asked if you needed more details.

Do you have PhotoShop, PaintShopPro, GIMP, etc, i.e. any image editor supporting transparency? If so, just make your rounded rectangle with everything except the border transparent and save as a PNG, taking care to preseve the transparent layer. Then import that and position and size it as shown.

Alternatively, make it any image editor as a plain JPG or BMP. Just a white border on a black, green or blue background. Then in MEP use Video effects > Chroma key and assign the chosen colour. Done. That's not quite as good as making a PNG with transparency, but the difference is rarely noticable.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry,

Well I certainly didn't understand the transparency item fully. So thanks for that. FYI - MS PowerPoint can build transparent shapes and you can save them off as a PNG, JPG or BMP.

I used your rounded edge box process to create an oval with a transparent inner section and with a rectangle large border to hide the main image. But when I removed the larger border with Chroma Key, the video image was still there, so that isn't it. So I'm not there just yet.

While I've learned a great deal from you and George, I still think this trial version has some limitations. But I still have 22 days to go to learn more.

Terry,

Well I certainly didn't understand the transparency item fully. So thanks for that. FYI - MS PowerPoint can build transparent shapes and you can save them off as a PNG, JPG or BMP.

I used your rounded edge box process to create an oval with a transparent inner section and with a rectangle large border to hide the main image. But when I removed the larger border with Chroma Key, the video image was still there, so that isn't it. So I'm not there just yet.

I'm not following you. Was this 'border' a solid rectangle? Or did it have an ellipse inside it? Why did you try to remove it if you were using it to hide the outer corners of your rectangular PIP?

And before tackling the ellipse/oval, did you successfully create a PIP fully hidden inside a rounded rectangle using the method I described?

If so, have you now attempted the method I described to handle the ellipse/oval? (Which is the only way I currently know of doing it.)

Maybe a few screenshots would help you to explain your problem better, with a step-by-step description. As I said, the devil is in the details.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Well it seems my writing style leaves data out of the details, while it is clear to me in my head. So here is what I did, as referenced in your post:

I created an oval with a white border and transparent center. Then I added a rectangle with an open center to the oval like so -

When I import or use as an effects mask I can get coverage of the video image. But when I then try to minimize the outer boundary with Chroma Key, it either still shows the edges of the covered image (as a cover) or (when used as an effects mask) all of the color selected becomes transparent on both the effects mask and the image.

So yes your thick border method for rectangular images will work fine. Maybe my ovals are too odd of an effect for most videos, except Star Wars and some comedy of the 70s or 80s. But I'll try to find some other ways over the next few days to arrive at my objective. 

Bottom-line: I've learned some new tricks, and you and George have caused me to think a little differently about how to build videos. I guess I need to view more tutorials on green screens, Chroma Key effects and film styles in general.

Thanks again.

Well it seems my writing style leaves data out of the details, while it is clear to me in my head. So here is what I did, as referenced in your post:

I created an oval with a white border and transparent center. Then I added a rectangle with an open center to the oval like so -

What program did you use? Is that truly a transparent centre? Or white, as it appears in your screenshot? And the 'white border' looks light blue.

Here is how I would show this: 

When I import or use as an effects mask I can get coverage of the video image.

What exactly do you do with this file? You're still referring to 'effects mask', which I suggested previously you should ignore until you've got the hang of using plain 'masks'.

But when I then try to minimize the outer boundary with Chroma Key,

Presumably you mean 'remove' it. But as I asked earlier, why do you want to do that? It's there to hide the part of the video that's outside the oval!

it either still shows the edges of the covered image (as a cover) or (when used as an effects mask) all of the color selected becomes transparent on both the effects mask and the image.

I'll stop here until (hopefuly) we get in sync on the above!

Meanwhile, here is my PNG so that we can both work with something in common.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/BlueRect%2BTranspOval-1.png

However, you still don't seem to have accepted the point I made previously that to accomplish what I think you are trying to do, you need additional steps. Which I described. They included an export. Which you don't mention above.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

Terry,

As I stated before, I use MS PowerPoint for drawings like this mask, as I don't have another drawing program. Oh yea, the light blue border happened because white was boring at that moment. Here is the screen shot of me using the mask on a video:

Anyway, masks on top of standard video is not a problem. Also, thanks for sharing your mask template layout.

But here is a screen shot of a PIP with the mask. This is where I'd want to hide the blue border and have the main video image show through.

Here is the effect I'm trying to get with MEP.

As you can see, after I get the PIP with an oval mask, I want to hide the rectangular area outside the oval. I used PowerDirector 11 to do this in about 3 steps. Now I know it will take more steps in MEP, but right now I can't get the general effects mask side to work, so this effect will be really hard.

OK, I don't mention export because I guess I don't understand your point. In my other video editing software, including when I used AVID in a training session, we used export for a short time, but went to drag and drop after we understood the steps drag and drop replaced. So I don't officially import or export in MEP either, just drag and drop the stuff I've been doing. I drag and drop the bringing in masks to the effects mask folder as well. But this could be an apples to oranges comparison to what you have in mind.

My point is I do understand masks as you would apply them as a top image over other images. It's the effects side that is troubling me so far. But as I said in an earlier post, this trial version of MEP could be a limiting factor. 

Thanks again.

Hi Jay,

I'm away using my iPad right now. But I'll summarise the exact steps you need to take below. If I don't hear back from you that you've succeeded, I'll illustrate it when I get back to my PC in an hour or so. It's really very simple (once you know how  ) and is not due to any extra features not present in the trial version.

1. Place your target PIP video or still image on track #1 (with any audio on track 2) and the blue mask (let's use mine to keep in sync) on track 3.

2. Make that your 'range'. See Help or PDF Manual if you don't know how. Easiest is to position marker at start and press 'I' then at end press 'O'.

3. Export it as, say, an mxv file. Again, read it up, as you won't get far if you don't know how to export stuff. In short, use Alt+d to get the dialog, enter a filename, ensure the 'Range only' option is set (unless there's nothing else on the timeline) and proceed.

4. Open a new project, or open the main project in which you want to use this oval PIP'. Your main background is now in track 1. Drag or import your newly created mxv file into track 3.

5. Assign it the blue chroma key to remove the blue corner sections.

6. Position and size it.

Done.

Edit

OK, got back sooner than I'd expected, so here are illustrations to complete the tutorial:

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP-PIP-InsideShapes-4.jpg

Or for better quality: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4019461/MEP-PIP-InsideShapes-5.jpg

Added a couple of years later. Here's a screenshot of how that oval mask of mine looks like in an image editor that shows transparency, just in case there's any ambiguity:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4019461/BlueRect%2BTranspOval-1-ShowTransparency.jpg

-- 

Terry, UK

Terry,

These are the steps I was looking for when I first asked the questions. Thanks, as I finally got the message. I had tried this step early in this learning process, but with a black border using a MP4 video segment from PowerDirector 11. When I loaded it into MEP, and took black out, it took everything black out and so gave a bad image. I also tried it with a green border, but it took all of the greens out. Maybe it was the video type, maybe I had to much green (trees, etc.) in other parts of the image.

No matter I have learned several things on this last tutorial segment. Thanks for sticking with me on this effort. It seems I had to unlearn some stuff to move ahead.

Have a Happy New Year. I'm sure I'll be asking more questions in the future.

Hi Jay,

Good news, glad you've  sorted it.

Happy New Year to you  too.

-- 

Terry, UK

Now you can condense this into a tutorial for other beginners to MEP.

Have fun.