@jak.willis

Hi Jak.

Personally I would prefer to see an original clip to see how well it can be edited and exported quality wise.

Ray.

Hi Jak

We cannot download the files - access is denied - can you set the sharing so that access does not have to be requested.

John EB

Hi, sorry about that, you should be able to access them now.

@jak.willis

Hi Jak.

Personally I would prefer to see an original clip to see how well it can be edited and exported quality wise.

Ray.

Hi Ray, I'll see what I can do.

@jak.willis

I'm struggling to see much difference between those. We do need to see the original (or smart-rendered version).

Using the Main Concept MPEG encoder in MEP, you should be able to smart-render a range of a few minutes for Google Drive. On the Advanced MPEG 2 export screen, tick Smart Render.

@jak.willis

I'm struggling to see much difference between those. We do need to see the original (or smart-rendered version).

Using the Main Concept MPEG encoder in MEP, you should be able to smart-render a range of a few minutes for Google Drive. On the Advanced MPEG 2 export screen, tick Smart Render.

If you watch them on your TV (and Blu-ray Player if you have one), then you should be able to see what I mean.

As requested, I have just uploaded the same clip taken from the original source file. Let me know if you want a longer clip.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OLJ2iR5jUA9pDJLloheI9mNeyUcEuiel/view?usp=sharing

@jak.willis

Hi

I have to agree with @AAProds, the 2 video clips are AFAICS identical.

Single frame stepping through the video I can see some frames have the motion induced/combing artefacts around some edges as in the example I gave previously.

Did the camera record to mini-DV Tape or mini DVD disc?

How did you get the video from the Mini-DV camera into the computer eg copy the files direct from mini-DV disc, use (if recorded on this type of media) or a USB video capture device to record the video out of the camera - in this case, if you know, which software did you use to record it, what settings were used and what was the make/model of the capture.

John EB

@lwerner

Hi

Bitte entführen Sie kein anderes Benutzerthema.

Die Frage gestellt, die nichts mit dem ursprünglichen Beitrag zu tun hat, wurde ausgeblendet.

Starte einen neuen Beitrag und poste hier im deutschen Forum.

Dankeschön

John EB
Forumsmoderator 

@jak.willis

Hello Jak.

So far, I think your main problems are stemming from how you record your footage more than how you are editing it.

The lighting is fine but.

I think you are videoing objects /characters closer than the minimum focusing distance of your lens. The background is often more in focus than what should be the focus of attention in the foreground.

Your panning and general camera movement is way too fast for your frame speed and if you have auto focus will cause the whole field of view to lose focus while the camera is in motion.

Camera movement that is too fast will cause frame tearing and I think is the main cause of the 'odd motion' you are seeing.

You are obviously working within a very tight budget and that's OK and can be of benefit but only if you plan how you are going to do everything and discipline yourself to what the camera is capable of. I think you need to go back to basics and learn what your camera can and can't do and work within its limitations and find out what if any features it has that can help you. Don't ever expect to be able to make bad looking footage better with software. It won't happen.

Ray.

@jak.willis

Hi

I have to agree with @AAProds, the 2 video clips are AFAICS identical.

Single frame stepping through the video I can see some frames have the motion induced/combing artefacts around some edges as in the example I gave previously.

Did the camera record to mini-DV Tape or mini DVD disc?

How did you get the video from the Mini-DV camera into the computer eg copy the files direct from mini-DV disc, use (if recorded on this type of media) or a USB video capture device to record the video out of the camera - in this case, if you know, which software did you use to record it, what settings were used and what was the make/model of the capture.

John EB

Hi John,

The source files were taken from the mini DVD disc that they were recorded onto in the camera. So I simply copied the VOB files over to my computer hard drive, then imported them into MEP.

I can assure you that they are not identical. When comparing both the MPEG-2 and the MPEG-4 AVC encodings, the motion in the AVC version is not the same as the motion in the MPEG-2. The MPEG-2 encode has almost identical motion as the original. So unless it's got something to do with MPEG-4 using a different algorithm or something then I don't know what the answer is.

@jak.willis

Hello Jak.

Where is the link to the original file?

So far, I think your main problems are stemming from how you record your footage more than how you are editing it.

The lighting is fine but.

I think you are videoing objects /characters closer than the minimum focusing distance of your lens. The background is often more in focus than what should be the focus of attention in the foreground.

Your panning and general camera movement is way too fast for your frame speed and if you have auto focus will cause the whole field of view to lose focus while the camera is in motion.

Camera movement that is too fast will cause frame tearing and I think is the main cause of the 'odd motion' you are seeing.

You are obviously working within a very tight budget and that's OK and can be of benefit but only if you plan how you are going to do everything and discipline yourself to what the camera is capable of. I think you need to go back to basics and learn what your camera can and can't do and work within its limitations and find out what if any features it has that can help you. Don't ever expect to be able to make bad looking footage better with software. It won't happen.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

The clips that you have seen were actually recorded about 11 years ago when I was just 15 years old. So back then I really was new to the world of video recording. My more recent recordings from over the past 8 years or so are much more professional-looking and I am way more advanced now than I was all those years ago.

As I said, when I re-encode the video sticking with MPEG-2, then the motion in the output file/video is almost identical to the original. But when I re-encode the video using H.264, then the motion is way poorer than both the MPEG-2 version and the original.

Here's the link you were asking for by the way:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OLJ2iR5jUA9pDJLloheI9mNeyUcEuiel/view?usp=sharing

@jak.willis

No disrespect Jak but showing me non relevant, not up-to-date footage of your current problem is not helping me understand whether it is still mainly camera technique, equipment related, or an editing issue. Unless I have a relevant clip to play with I can neither confirm or deny your findings or test to see if there is a setting that can help.

At this point I have to say I'm out on helping with this problem further.

Ray.

@jak.willis

No disrespect Jak but showing me non relevant, not up-to-date footage of your current problem is not helping me understand whether it is still mainly camera technique, equipment related, or an editing issue. Unless I have a relevant clip to play with I can neither confirm or deny your findings or test to see if there is a setting that can help.

At this point I have to say I'm out on helping with this problem further.

Ray.

I think we may be getting our wires crossed a bit here. The clips that you’ve seen are clips from the files that I am using for these MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 encodes. These are the files that I’m using.

@jak.willis Just a passing comment. According to MediaInfo the source and exported mpg files are 25fps interlaced. The mp4 file is 25fps progressive. On playing the mpg files will deinterlace and display 50 fps. The mp4 file will only display 25 fps. So it's not a fair comparison. You need to export to 50 fps progressive for a proper comparison.

@jak.willis

Hi Jak

. . . . then the motion in the output file/video is almost identical to the original. But when I re-encode the video using H.264, then the motion is way poorer than both the MPEG-2 version and the original. . . . .

Assuming you mean the camera motions appear different between the mpg files and mp4 AVC encoded file, then what I think you are seeing and attributing to 'poorer motion', is what I have mentioned before - the problem of converting interlaced video to progressive.

Due to the relatively high speed of the camera movements the difference between each field in the source video is substantial resulting in significant combing. When the 2 fields are combined into a frame the visual perception of this has been reduced due to de-interlace filter and has been helped by the softness of the source video and low resolution.

I have stepped through some sections of the source video and there are significant signs of combing - it has been masked by the de-interlace filters in the player, in some places you can see a double image where the camera is moving fast.

If @AAProds has QTGMC it would be interesting to see what the source video is like after running it through this software.

John EB

@jak.willis

If you watch them on your TV (and Blu-ray Player if you have one), then you should be able to see what I mean.

Aha, I see what you mean. On my Smart idiot box (LG) the MP4 is not very smooth. I'm going to have a play with your original and will report back.

Interesting filming technique, by the way. 👍

@johnebaker

If @AAProds has QTGMC it would be interesting to see what the source video is like after running it through this software.

I have and I will. 😉

@ericlnz

Hi

. . . . On playing the mpg files will deinterlace and display 50 fps . . . .

That would mean a player is frame doubling.

The player is combining 50 fields per second which = 25 frames per second - one frame requires 2 fields to make the complete image - see the top right image here - in that example the video would be Top Field First.

@AAProds - 👍

John EB

@jak.willis

I've done some comparison encodes. The secret seems to be to export your MP4 at 50fps. I set my movie properties to 50fps as well. Using the QTGMC process at 25fps, I still get dodgy video, but at 50fps for both QTGMC and MEP the video is better, on a par with the MPEG.

I think the issue is that the video motion is so harsh that the 25fps is just too slow to cope with the rapid movement.

QTGMC 25fps (no audio):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12nrtY8WYMmxs52Bq01c0rWHLG9FnTKrE/view?usp=sharing

QTGMC 50fps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ak76UZFfLcvLJfJyrvNjSvTQjq6dyu6n/view?usp=sharing

MEP 50fps (6000, max 8000, "Best" encode, default MPEG 4 encoder and Video Object Properties set to Automatic Interlace processing, Interpolate intermediate images, TFF (mentioned by Jeb earlier):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eL_RRT6AyuQ5FvF6LEgOPLqD6hxVKrjO/view?usp=sharing

That MPEG smart-renders nicely, and is buttery smooth. Unless you really need to MPEG-4 it, I'd leave it in MPEG 2.

You might spot the deliberate error with the QTGMC file: the aspect ratio is 5:4 instead of 4:3. 😂

For the QTGMC files, I also haven't joined the audio back up with the video.

@jak.willis

I've done some comparison encodes. The secret seems to be to export your MP4 at 50fps. I set my movie properties to 50fps as well. Using the QTGMC process at 25fps, I still get dodgy video, but at 50fps for both QTGMC and MEP the video is better, on a par with the MPEG.

I think the issue is that the video motion is so harsh that the 25fps is just too slow to cope with the rapid movement.

QTGMC 25fps (no audio):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12nrtY8WYMmxs52Bq01c0rWHLG9FnTKrE/view?usp=sharing

QTGMC 50fps:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ak76UZFfLcvLJfJyrvNjSvTQjq6dyu6n/view?usp=sharing

MEP 50fps (6000, max 8000, "Best" encode, default MPEG 4 encoder and Video Object Properties set to Automatic Interlace processing, Interpolate intermediate images, TFF (mentioned by Jeb earlier):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eL_RRT6AyuQ5FvF6LEgOPLqD6hxVKrjO/view?usp=sharing

That MPEG smart-renders nicely, and is buttery smooth. Unless you really need to MPEG-4 it, I'd leave it in MPEG 2.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi! I’m pleased to hear that you may have finally cracked it. I’m not at home at this very second but when I get back I’ll grab those files you’ve made and play them on my TV & BD Player to see what you’ve produced. I’ll get back to you as soon as possible.

@jak.willis Just a passing comment. According to MediaInfo the source and exported mpg files are 25fps interlaced. The mp4 file is 25fps progressive. On playing the mpg files will deinterlace and display 50 fps. The mp4 file will only display 25 fps. So it's not a fair comparison. You need to export to 50 fps progressive for a proper comparison.

Hello, thanks for letting me know.

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

Good job - the motion issues are much better.

John EB