@browj2

Hi John.

The stills image is correct.

How you would get that to work within Bluff Titler I have no idea but at present the moving text is behind the main text, not in it. The 'BLUFF' title could just as easily be made in a stills editing package as no animation at this point is needed. It would need to be in grey and black with a white background, rather then black text on white I think to work. I don't know how a coloured or textured fill would work.

To try to get an edge and more of a 3D feel to my main text I've tried a second mask of the word Tank at a slightly different size. (A few pixels difference in width and height.) Then reversed White Text black background and exported as a bitmap to be re-imported and added to the original TANK text on an additional track above the original TANK text. That then allows me to add a bevel to the text to make it stand out from the background more and only now involves six layers instead of the previous five layers. At this point it still allows me to run a normal project in one go as the track count is still relatively low.

The bevel needs a bit more work but is doing it's main job of separation of the main background. The latest version is below.

When I was talking about thinking in 3D I was referring to how layers and masks behave in the track layouts and how many can be made to work with each other to get layers within layers working alongside each other. Not literally 3D text arrangements. Not seeing the tracks as stacked one above another but behind each other working out various transparencies and masks needed. I just helps me to visualise in my head more easily what needs to be done.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I do believe I've got it!

Is this close to what you are looking for?

As for the text, you can get better results with BT. Note the beveled 3D type edges on the texts.

Anyone want to see how I did it? It was partially done in BT, partially in VPX.

John CB

@browj2@browj2

Hi John

I have removed my comment - also apologies when I looked at the image I still saw the year as being behind the title - it is time for new glasses 🤓 however we have to wait.

John EB

@browj2

Hi John.

Yes, for this exercise that is what I was trying to do and I am impressed with the shading of your secondary text changing direction with the flow of travel but not what I will be doing eventually with this technique.

I am glad you have found something new to do with Bluff Titler though.

I will do ask for more help in a new post in the future as I think through another new problem and can't find a reasonable workflow to it.

I hope everyone has enjoyed this challenge. I definitely feel better for it thanks to John EB.

Ray.

Here is how I did it.

1. In BluffTitler (BT), set up the Bluff text with mask effect and picture as texture
2. In BT, added 2020 text, keyframed movements
3. Exported just the BT text with mask effect and picture texture as transparent avi
4. Removed the mask effect (and picture texture) leaving the BT as white (grey bevelling) and exported to MP4, no transparency as I wanted a black and white mask
5. Exported just the 2020 text as transparent avi
6. In VPX, track 1 has the background image
7. Track 3, imported BT text with picture on it (transparent avi so the image on track 1 is seen), added at the end the original image that was used on the text, to make the transition from the BT file to VPX/MEP
8. Track 4, imported BT text with no picture as black and white mask, gave it chromakey alpha, and shortened it to start when the 2020 text should appear within the Bluff text
9. Track 5, imported 2020 moving red text, transparent avi
10. The 2020 passes in front of everything until playback reaches the Bluff b&w mask of track 4. This causes the part of the 2020 that interfaces with black part of the track 4 mask to show what is on track 1, leaving the part of the 2020 that is in the Bluff text visible.

Why this last steps works, I don't know. I would have thought that the mask on track 4 would hide the Bluff of track 3, but it doesn't. The only thing that I can think of is that this is due to the transparency of the 2020 of track 4, or something.

I think that this shows a good way to use titles made in BT as overlays and masks in VPX/MEP.a

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

I have not heard of transparent avi files. That is interesting if only for text work or possibly logos but is there a specific setting for that? Is it something MEP can doas opposed to VP-X?

Would this be a solution for another question posted here?

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Both VPX and MEP handle avi files with transparency, just like png files with transparency. Neither can export files with transparency.

BluffTitler does exactly that - logos and text - amongst many other things. Look at the examples. BT is the poor man's After Effects, and it's a lot faster.

Yes, BluffTitler would be a solution for the other thread. An alternative is Xara Photo & Graphics or Designer Pro X and using the animation feature as per my tutorials. However, BluffTitler wins hands on manipulation of text and almost everything else.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

Nice work especially the use of AVI with Alpha channel.

@CubeAce

AVI with transparency is a standard RGB AVI with an Alpha channel - commonly known as RGBA - as John CB has said this is the video equvalent of a PNG image.

The only other format I know that supports an Alpha channel is MOV, however as far as Windows is concerned this is effectively an obsolete format, Quicktime is needed to play it and QT is only supported by Apple for MACs.

HTH

John EB

I got back on the case this afternoon. More trial & error than should have been necessary, but I think I have it right now:

@terrypin

Hi Terry

You have got it - there are 2 minor adjustments needed :

There are some small specks of stray Alpha to the right of the Y -see image below - - there may be holes in the text mask.

and one that caught me out initially - during the fade out the moving text appears outside the Title

HTH

John EB

@browj2 @johnebaker @terrypin

Hi Terry.

Yes That's basically it with the odd couple of points that John picked up on. Easy fix once you get into the swing of it.

Anyone ready for version 2 now with the basics sorted?

I'm just finishing up soon with another variation on the theme.

Also open to creative interpretations myself.

Ray.

@johnebaker @CubeAce @browj2

Thanks both.

I meant to annotate my timeline; will do so tomorrow.

John: The flaw during the fade out seems to be due to the blackish pillar on the quayside. Not yet isolated the the other. Couldn't fix either by playing with the two chroma sliders. Perhaps I shouldn't have restricted myself to making all titles within MEPP. Could that also explain why my alpha arrow is Down?

This was hard enough. But I don't reckon I could have done it from scratch without your annotated timeline. Many thanks!

Ray: Go for it.

John CB: Still not as attractive as your BT version! As per my email, using two shows was a real smart idea - although it's sort of equivalent to using intermediate exports with MEPP, one of Ray's initial restrictions 😉

Terry

@terrypin

@browj2

@johnebaker

Hi Terry.

OK. I'm going to call this one. Scene Change Challenge. Same basic setup but the subtitle and scene change are one.

Ray.

@terrypin

Hi

. . . Couldn't fix either by playing with the two chroma sliders. . . .

I suspect the stray holes are literally that in the mask.

For example if done in PSP and background was painted with a brush there may be missed spots.

John EB

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

IMHO before tackling the Scene Change Challenge we need a set of parameters and/or a brief to work from.

Eg: your thoughts on what you are trying to achieve, what should happen at the changes including any effects (allowed or not), what is 'not right' with the example video compared to what you envisaged etc.

John EB

@johnebaker @browj2 @terrypin

Hi John.

In this instance I'm allowing more leeway to inspire if you like.

Basically you can use it as a set of titles depicting a relevant shot that it grows into, or use a word to describe a scene change. If you look at mine the Word 'Santa' goes into a shot of Father Christmas and then the word 'Fun' goes into a shot of people smiling 'Run' goes into the start of the fun run, and 'Chatham' and 'Dockyard' gives two views within the dockyard. I tried adding bevelling the text but that didn't work too well. I've grown my text and faded it into the next scene but you could try shrinking instead if you like. My transitions are short to try to keep the whole thing short like an advert but I'm after the smoothness of the transition so a longer one is fine or shorter if you can make it work. Add music if you like to see if that makes it harder but not an essential requirement.

Is that enough of a brief John?

I've been thinking about that light sabre problem as well. I may have something but no promises as I've yet to try it and I can think of a hundred and one things that could go wrong.

Ray.

@johnebaker

Hi John,

But shouldn’t the inbuilt mask for text made in the MEP Title Editor be perfect?

That was made in my familiar MEPP 2016. I’ll try 2017 although I doubt there will be any distinction. Not sure about current versions though. I could upload the project and media if you want to try it?

Terry

@terrypin

High Terry.

It should be perfect but the Alpha mask at my end at least is not. Both sliders are at the right side but the lower one needs to be eased off one position using the mouse wheel while the top on can be hard right. As there are no numerical inputs that is how I fine adjust those parameters. That setting may change depending on the amount of shadow in the scene. At least that is what I found.

Ray.

Hi,

@terrypin

The BT project that I sent you that contains a show within a show, is all done with smoke and mirrors in one "show." The trick was to simply add a ColourMap Layer. This automatically created below it, camera, point light and text layers. I added the background image, changed the text to 2020, and adjusted the keyframing of the text to fit. I change the first texture on the text 'Bluff" to be the colourmap layer, thus the second show is just a texture for the Bluff text. So, I did not make 2 separate shows/projects and then import one. It's actually simple to do this once you've tried it.

@CubeAce

I think that the new challenge requires contrasting images. Yours are mostly similar, so the text is almost invisible in the jumble of red. I'll try with my seasons images - winter, spring, summer, fall. However, I think that a different kind of transition with titles may be more appropriate for your case.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John,

So, I did not make 2 separate shows/projects and then import one.

Got it, my mistake, now understood. Must add it to the list...

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I'm inclined to agree with John. This novel text-in-text effect won't be a good choice for many transitions or effects, although I appreciate your example was just a starting illustration.

Terry

Here's the annotated timeline I promised. Largely for my own future reference.

Although I started from John EB's template, I couldn't get it working until I changed to this combination of text backgrounds.

I've also uploaded a full backup of the project and media. Unzip and d-click the MVP.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/08849otz8dx3kx7/Text-in-Text.zip?dl=0

Terry

@terrypin

Hi Terry

. . . . Couldn't fix either by playing with the two chroma sliders. . . .

I think the holes are in the Boat image, white bg, with Chromakey Black (Black box) applied.

I do not understand the logic of adding the black and white backgrounds to the images or applying Chromakey some of them.

I have a solution for the second @CubeAce challenge which my help with this issue.

Will work on it lunchtime or tonight as I have 300 linear feet of wood, I cut yesterday, awaiting final dimensioning for a project I must complete by 1 week today.

John EB