@kate-m

You could in theory, after thinking about it edit to within a half frame by overlaying two edited clips over each other causing the sound from both clips to be faded across from one to the next as well as the visual blend. That may not be possible with video using variable frame rates.

Ray.

@kate-m

Hi,

First, it is not possible to edit video to less than a frame. You can't have a portion of a picture. In MEP, it is not possible to edit audio to less than a frame either. However, it is possible in Video Pro X.

For you in MEP, there are two ways. Put audio and video on separate tracks (Ctrl+H). Put a range over the video clip. Solo the audio track. Do a mixdown of the range by using the shortcut Shift+D, save to a name/place (I just use the default). This creates a wave file (red) and replaces your original audio. Unsolo the track. Right click on the wave object and select Edit wave externally. This will open Music Editor 3 with your file. Use the volume curve to edit your audio. Do not cut is up, just edit the volume. When you've finished, click on the X at the upper right, save, and the file on the timeline will have been edited. You should learn how to use an external audio editor.

Now for the easy way. Put audio and video on separate tracks (Ctrl+H). Right-click the audio, select Volume Curve (Ctrl+Shitf+V). This will turn on the volume curve on the object. Make the track higher and zoom in horizontally to better see what you're doing. Adjust your audio by putting in nodes or use the Curve command (9 on the keypad). You can precisely edit the volume of the audio object.

For details, see my tutorials on Everything Audio, in particular Part 2:

See the menu for Volume curve (near the beginning) and Edit Wave Externally (farther along).

John CB

@browj2 @kate-m

Hi John.

Following your advice is not currently possible in MEP 2021. I'm not even sure if it is possible in the last few versions of VPX.

Do a mixdown of the range by using the shortcut Shift+D, save to a name/place (I just use the default). This creates a wave file (red) and replaces your original audio. Unsolo the track. Right click on the wave object and select Edit wave externally.

That bit is possible

but the red wave file immediately turns yellow when right clicked and asked to be edited in an external editor.

Then you are back to the external editor part being broken.

Please check with your copy of VPX.

Ray.

@kate-m

Hi

. . . . To take out pauses in my speech on the video and audio . . . .

Assuming you are also removing the same section of video then editing down to one frame should be more than adequate for just removing pauses, however you will be creating 'jumps' however these can be reduced by leaving some of the pauses and crossfading or using a 'fade through' a colour transition.

However - if this is what you are doing and the audio is losing sync after removing a section and closing the gap then either

1. the source video is in mpg format
   
   or
    
2. the video is Variable Framerate

Download and install MediaInfo then see this tutorial on how to set up MediaInfo and analyse a video clip, post the results from analysing the video clip that you are editing causing the issue.

John EB
Forum Moderator

@kate-m

As I mentioned, you can't edit video to less that a frame - there is no image in between images. Video is captured at a frame rate selected by you in the camera. There are X images (photos) taken per second; when strung together, you get video.

What I mentioned about audio is if you want to remove noises or pauses, like uummm, aahhh, breaths, etc.

@CubeAce

It works for me. You need to reinstall or repair ME3.

Whenever you select any image, no matter the colour, it changes to yellow - indicating that it has been selected. So, if the object is red, select it, it turns yellow, select something else or nothing, and the object turns back to red. Do you not use coloured objects occasionally?

Here is a video showing the process. Sorry for the bad sound. I have not got everything properly set up in the new old house - or the mic or interface card is acting up.

You can see that it works in MEP2021.

John CB

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Source of bad recording found. I had installed my webcam earlier (first time since moving into the new old house and setting up the computer) and I didn't notice that it had become the default mic for recording. Silly mistake, but I'm relieved.

John CB

@browj2 @johnebaker @kate-m

Hi John CB.

It doesn't matter what external audio editor I choose and have now tried three audio editors. The warning message just states now that the source file is already in use.

For me it is worse. Using Shift + D grabs any sound file within the project not on a muted track and combines them all at full volume ignoring any mixing done to produce one sound file. If the mix is a 5.1 surround mix the file is played back within the project in mono only coming from the rear two speakers.

Select one sound file and use Shift + D =

All other audio tracks below the track selected 'disappear' and in fact the top one would disappear as well if it was not muted on the track chanel

Result in 5.1 surround sound from mixer.

The result is a mono track only coming from the rear channels. Stereo mixes are the same except the result is front speakers stereo but no actual 'mix', just all tracks at full volume, Muted parts are ignored and reproduced. So my problems start even before trying to open the external editor.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Please don't try to make the feature do more than was intended. As per the manual, a mixdown creates a stereo wave file, "optimized" meaning normalized. It normalizes the result, not the audio of each object as you seem to imply. Mixing is not ignored. I tested this to make sure.

For me it is worse. Using Shift + D grabs any sound file within the project not on a muted track and combines them all at full volume ignoring any mixing done to produce one sound file.

As I pointed out, hopefully clearly each time, to isolate an object or just part of the audio on the timeline, you have to create a range and Solo any tracks to be included. Obviously, you can mute the tracks that you don't want - same difference but it's usually easier to just Solo the tracks that you need. If you want just the audio of one video clip with AV on separate tracks (1 and 2), then you Solo track 2 and put a range over the object. If you don't do this, the mixdown gets everything. I pointed out that the audio (that is used) is replaced by the wave. You can always restore the original sound. Audio outside of a range, if used, and on tracks that are muted or not soloed are ignored, obviously.

It is exactly the same as doing an Export, Audio as Wave, with the parameters "Export selected range only" and "Normalize." It does not get them at full volume - it takes the mix and normalizes the result; normalizing obviously puts the max volume to 0 db. It uses any effects that you have put on an object/track, including the volume set on that track in the Mixer.

Note that there are no parameters that you can set when using mixdown (Shift+D), unlike File, Export Movie, Audio as Wave. If you want Surround Sound, then you have to use the Export command, set the parameters accordingly, and then import the resulting file. I don't use Surround Sound - no equipment for it and I only have 1 ear that works.

The warning message just states now that the source file is already in use.

As I indicated in the video, if you open the wave file in the external audio editor, then close it without saving, you can open it again without getting the warning message and having to reload the project. If you exit with a save, then the file is locked. This is a bug that has been around for a few years and was featured prominently in my bug list. It seems that it may have been resolved (at least partially) in VPX13. I only tested it using ME3 and was able to reopen the edited wave multiple times without the file being locked.

So, please do not try to use the mixdown command improperly or for something for which it was not intended.

The other bug that has been on my list for several years and has been discussed many times, including with you, is that one should be able to select an object that has audio, right-click, and Edit Wave Externally should show up. It does not do this anymore. What it used to do was a mixdown of just that object and then opened the resulting wave file in the external editor, all in one shot. If I have Magix Audio & Music Lab Premium set as my default audio editor, it actually works. No other external audio editor does this properly.

The goal is to send the audio part to an external editor for doing whatever you want, like cleaning, including spectral cleaning if you have it, adding effects that you can't add in MEP because Object effects are limited, and more. It is not intended to be used as a mixer. For that, you have full mixing capability in MEP. What I proposed for @kate-m was a way to adjust the volume using the volume curve in ME3 - but you can do exactly the same thing in MEP, as I pointed out. I would not do a mixdown just to do this for a single object.

Another bug on my list for VPX is that because I can't easily right-click and get a mixdown on an object, it makes it hard to prepare a file for exporting as EDL for use in a DAW, like Samplitude, with the audio on multiple tracks. N/A to MEP. Then, the mixing can be done in the DAW as all audio files are opened on separate tracks at the correct location on the timeline, along with whatever one wants to do in the DAW. The result still has to come back to the video editor, but as a completed audio file.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

Sorry I didn't realise I would have to solo a track or not be able select a single object within a track. Originally I could right click any audio object on any track in MEP 2018 and edit the wave file externally. My only option now is to double click a file to bring up the audio cleaner or select time stretch.

Now only actual wav files get the open in external editor option (it is select-able in the right click menu) and not say an ogg vorbis or other audio file format separated or not from the respective video. I have to do the 'mix-down' first to create a wav file or have proxy files rendered. That's irrelevant due to me not being able to select any external audio editor as I get the same warning as I would get using ME3. I have raised a ticked about that so awaiting a reply.

As the rest of both programs work as expected I really don't want to re-install either VPX or MEP for one function I can do in other ways.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Originally I could right click any audio object on any track in MEP 2018 and edit the wave file externally.

Nope, it was well before that since it worked last properly. We had established that you were using proxy files at the time, which is why the right-click Edit wave externally worked. Without proxies, it did not work. That was why I modified my bug list to indicate about it working for proxies, nothing else.

For ogg's, it works. Right-click on one and you'll see that Edit wave externally shows up. The ones that do not work are mxcogg files - like Songs purchased through the Store - they have to be mixed down first as ME3 and other programs cannot read mxcogg files. The problem with with AV files, not audio files.

EDIT: Just a precision on this, using the external audio editor and saving is going to be destructive, meaning that it will overwrite your original file, so be careful with this. Best to always use a mixdown, which creates a copy.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John.

I remember the original conversation now.

I can find no additional information on ME3 outside of the manual for it. Is it a cut down version of something else?

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I presume you mean the F1 manual that you get when ME3 is open. I don't recall any other manual. Read the Introduction to see what it does, how it works, and its features. It has always been available with most of Magix' audio/video programs, much like Photo Designer 7.

I started with Magix products using Audio Cleaning Lab, which was a more advanced version of Music Editor. It had Spectral Cleaning, amongst other things. It has morphed over the years. It was split into Audio & Music Lab Premium (AML) and Audio Cleaning Lab (ACL), with the latter being stripped of many features. Another incarnation, still available, I believe, is Video Sound Cleaning Lab which was sold as an upgrade to ME3. This is to be avoided - it is not even as good as ME3 as it can't handle VST's. I told Magix that it should be pulled from the market as it was a downgrade from ME3.

More recently, AML became Sound Forge Audio Cleaning Lab. There was the first version, then SFACL 2 and now 3. I have the first SFACL and it comes with a major oversight for recording. There is a stereo radio button but no mono button and stereo cannot be toggled off, so I can't record in mono. I advised Magix; I'm still waiting for the fix.

So, currently you can get SFACL3 which is a step up from ME3 as it handles spectral cleaning, amongst other things. It runs as a standalone or as the external audio editor.

Note that ME3 can be used as a standalone.

Also, Magix has been pushing Sound Forge Audio Studio as the alternative to ME3. I have it, looked at it, but I prefer SFACL (or rather AML) - Spectral cleaning.

I think that we're way off topic here.

John CB

@kate-m

Hi Kate, and welcome to the user to user forums.

A frame is a fixed time dependent on the amount of frames per second a video or film clip is recorded at. It is not divisible as a time period and although technically a sound track could be shortened separately it would not be advisable as the sound the vision would drift apart. Recording at a higher frame rate would enable a video to be edited more precisely as there would be more frames per send of time but may produce other difficulties.

Yes, i've started recording at a higher frame rate for my green screen videos, it seems to be a good tip for that, because of my challenges with the green screen and helping with the fringes around the person :-)

If editing a video clip from some recording equipment that produces variable frame rate video clips, the task may become impossible for any normal video editing package.

Thank you for providing your basic system specs but I think there is some basic misreporting of it.

If you only have 4GB of ram, 3.88GB of it should not be available running a 64 bit Windows operating system. What you may be seeing is the amount of virtual ram accessible being reported. For now don't worry but it could present problems further down the line.

Thanks. I don't know much about these things. I just copied the info i found about my computer, not knowing how the hardware works.

Ray.

 

@kate-m

Hi Kate, and welcome to the user to user forums.

A frame is a fixed time dependent on the amount of frames per second a video or film clip is recorded at. It is not divisible as a time period and although technically a sound track could be shortened separately it would not be advisable as the sound the vision would drift apart. Recording at a higher frame rate would enable a video to be edited more precisely as there would be more frames per send of time but may produce other difficulties.

If editing a video clip from some recording equipment that produces variable frame rate video clips, the task may become impossible for any normal video editing package.

Thank you for providing your basic system specs but I think there is some basic misreporting of it.

If you only have 4GB of ram, 3.88GB of it should not be available running a 64 bit Windows operating system. What you may be seeing is the amount of virtual ram accessible being reported. For now don't worry but it could present problems further down the line.

Ray.

 

@kate-m

You could in theory, after thinking about it edit to within a half frame by overlaying two edited clips over each other causing the sound from both clips to be faded across from one to the next as well as the visual blend. That may not be possible with video using variable frame rates.

Ray.

 

Yes, that's a good idea :-) I'm doing that now.

@kate-m

Hi,

First, it is not possible to edit video to less than a frame. You can't have a portion of a picture. In MEP, it is not possible to edit audio to less than a frame either. However, it is possible in Video Pro X.

For you in MEP, there are two ways. Put audio and video on separate tracks (Ctrl+H). Put a range over the video clip. Solo the audio track. Do a mixdown of the range by using the shortcut Shift+D, save to a name/place (I just use the default). This creates a wave file (red) and replaces your original audio. Unsolo the track. Right click on the wave object and select Edit wave externally. This will open Music Editor 3 with your file. Use the volume curve to edit your audio. Do not cut is up, just edit the volume. When you've finished, click on the X at the upper right, save, and the file on the timeline will have been edited. You should learn how to use an external audio editor.

Now for the easy way. Put audio and video on separate tracks (Ctrl+H). Right-click the audio, select Volume Curve (Ctrl+Shitf+V). This will turn on the volume curve on the object. Make the track higher and zoom in horizontally to better see what you're doing. Adjust your audio by putting in nodes or use the Curve command (9 on the keypad). You can precisely edit the volume of the audio object.

For details, see my tutorials on Everything Audio, in particular Part 2:

See the menu for Volume curve (near the beginning) and Edit Wave Externally (farther along).

John CB

Hey John, thanks for the video, that's very helpful.