As far as I can tell, it seems like a bug. The bug is that certain DSLR camera videos are being overcompressed when exporting as HEVC, with a much lower bitrate than specified in the output settings, at least when using AMD Radeon RX 550 graphics. You do not need to make any edits or changes to the video --- just export the original video as HEVC. The same bug happens for multiple videos regardless of video length (from the same camera of the same object). I tried using the default export settings, but this makes it even worse. Using the default settings, the exported video is 233 kB instead of 632 kB with the custom settings. Whereas the original video is 33 MB. The workaround to avoid this problem seems to be to just use MP4/AVC without HEVC.

https://nikkisandbox.dreamhosters.com/temporary/magix/hevc/

Default versus custom settings (both produce the same compression artifacts):

average bitrate = 11000 kBd versus 65536 kBd

maximum bitrate = 13000 kBd versus 131072 kBd

CPB = 1625 kB versus 15000 kB

maximum GOP length = 60

GOP structure = IBBP versus auto

level = 4.1 versus 6.2

coding quality = balanced versus best

@AAProds

Hi Al.

Thanks for the conformation about what NeatVideo is capable of. I wasn't sure.

I don't know if you are aware but Google is running YouTube at a loss. Mainly due to storage space and some content providers that supplied 4K video previously now seem to only have HD content available but encoded to vp09. YouTube is also considering making viewing 4K content a paywall option. At present the vp09 encoding at HD only seems to be happening to those people who actually earn money from YouTube as they normally upload the most content on a regular basis. As I understand it vp09 will eventually become the norm for all resolutions on YouTube. At present as far as I'm aware, no video showing on YouTube below 720p is encoded to vp09.

@nicolesharp100

I have uploaded my version of your file to Google drive for you to be able to download here. As this is a public forum, as soon as I know you have it I will remove the file from Google drive.

There are possible problems videoing in portrait as opposed to landscape orientations when videoing sunsets if you are going to then turn them by 90°. Any dust spots on the lens or sensor will travel across the image as opposed to stay in one place. Any further adjustment to the horizon to make it level ends up producing a more fuzzy image. It is the main reason serious landscape photographers spend so much time setting up their tripods to be absolutely level if they are going to do fine art printing. That reduces the stepping effect you can sometimes make out on sharp edges or blurring of detail on very small objects within the frame. For your sunset, that could reduce the ability to pick out very small detail such as the birds flying across the sun during the sunset period or smaller sunspots.

Dust on the sensor normally shows itself as a halo on the image whereas dust on the lens produces a slight lightening of the area around it. Both should be avoided as much as possible especially if one has to video at smaller apertures.

There is one small micro-jump of the image during the sunset section. Did the tripod get touched during the sunset?

Once I know you have a copy of the video I will delete all the files I have of your video.

Ray.

@nicolesharp100

Hi

. . . . Simply loading the video into Video Pro X14 and then exporting it as HEVC with the best possible settings (for a 60 MBd video) will reproduce the compression artifacts. . . . .

Why are you still exporting at 60Mb/s?

As @Marc-Goder has commented, and I agree with, this is not required for exporting 1920 x 1080 at 59.97 (60) fps.

I have uploaded 2 clip of the MVI_0781 exported from VPX using the default HEVC export settings here and a Level 6.2 60Mb/s here for you to test playing on your computer. Other than the atmospheric shimmer I see no artefacts on playback in either video file.

If you see artefacts in these when playing in your default player then I suspect the issue is with the computer/player not handling HEVC playback correctly - which player are you using? I have tested with Films & TV, Windows Media Player and VLC and see no artefacts in any of them

The MediaInfo data for both files is:

Complete name                            : M:\MVI_0781 export HEVC default settings.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 3.93 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 7 264 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-12-08 11:34:42
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-12-08 11:34:42

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L4.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Bit rate                                 : 7 063 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Complete name                            : M:\MVI_0781 HEVC 60Mb-s.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 5.45 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 10.1 Mb/s

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Bit rate                                 : 9 883 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits

As you can see the 60Mb/s file bitrate setting is not made a huge impact on the bitrate of the video, and visually there is no difference in the quality.

The higher bitrate, compared to the longer MVI_2565 file previously tested, is due to the zoomed in nature of the video, requiring more data to be encoded with.

HTH

John EB

@nicolesharp100 @johnebaker

It's clear to me that Nicole's installation is playing up, despite the high bitrates she is using. As an experiment, try exporting using your CPU only:

File> Settings> Program> Deice Options tab, change all hardware accel dropdown options to CPU and try an HEVC export.

@CubeAce

Ray, I've said it before and I'll say again. If you upload a 1440P or better video to YT, you'll get VP9. Every version of that video will display in VP9, even the 144P version. And I don't think VP9 is better space-wise, otherwise they'd be doing it now. It's better quality. My understanding is that AV1 is the new super-efficient codec for the masses and there are AV1s on YT now.

As far as YT running out of money, judging by the amount of ads it makes people watch (captive audience), that sounds like a red herring to me.

@AAProds

Hi Alwyn

Are you seeing the artefacts in the exported files Nicole is producing and uploaded for us?

. . . . It's clear to me that Nicole's installation is playing up . . . .

I agree something is playing up, the question as you have touched on above is where?

The options as I see it are:

• GPU drivers are not up to date.
   
• The GPU settings you have suggested changing are incorrectly set - @nicolesharp100 - yellow box in image below and, to which I would add, ensure the Video mode - blue box in image below is set as shown.
  
  
   
• The PC/player is the issue as I mentioned above.
   
• And a bit of a longshot - there is an all-in-one codec pack, such as K-Lite, is installed and it has taken precedence over the Magix codecs - if this is the case then that codec pack must be un-installed.

John EB

 

Hi

. . . . Simply loading the video into Video Pro X14 and then exporting it as HEVC with the best possible settings (for a 60 MBd video) will reproduce the compression artifacts. . . . .

Why are you still exporting at 60Mb/s?

As @Marc-Goder has commented, and I agree with, this is not required for exporting 1920 x 1080 at 59.97 (60) fps.

I have uploaded 2 clip of the MVI_0781 exported from VPX using the default HEVC export settings here and a Level 6.2 60Mb/s here for you to test playing on your computer. Other than the atmospheric shimmer I see no artefacts on playback in either video file.

If you see artefacts in these when playing in your default player then I suspect the issue is with the computer/player not handling HEVC playback correctly - which player are you using? I have tested with Films & TV, Windows Media Player and VLC and see no artefacts in any of them

The MediaInfo data for both files is:

 

Complete name                            : M:\MVI_0781 export HEVC default settings.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 3.93 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 7 264 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-12-08 11:34:42
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-12-08 11:34:42

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L4.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Bit rate                                 : 7 063 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Complete name                            : M:\MVI_0781 HEVC 60Mb-s.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 5.45 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 10.1 Mb/s

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Bit rate                                 : 9 883 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits

As you can see the 60Mb/s file bitrate setting is not made a huge impact on the bitrate of the video, and visually there is no difference in the quality.

The higher bitrate, compared to the longer MVI_2565 file previously tested, is due to the zoomed in nature of the video, requiring more data to be encoded with.

HTH

John EB

 

 

The two files uploaded by @johnebaker appear to have rings around the edges, an artifact that I don't see in the original video or videos exported as MP4/AVC. This is specifically the Solar phenomenon called "limb darkening" which presents as a continuous gradient of increasing darkness toward the edges (since the Sun is a sphere), but with the HEVC compression presents as discontinuous rings (like a GIF). It is subtle but noticeable. The AVC version always displays as a continuous gradient (both the original video and Magix exported video as AVC). I tried playing on VLC Media Player, Google Chrome, and Magix Video Pro X14 (fullscreen). If you do not see the artifacts and I do for the same video file, then the problem isn't with Magix but with my system, possibly with the Windows drivers or codecs. I just got a new 4K UHD monitor, so all videos are being upscaled for fullscreen playback from 1080p to 2160p (both AVC and HEVC).

Do you see any artifacts in my outputted HEVC videos?

https://nikkisandbox.dreamhosters.com/temporary/magix/hevc/MVI_0781-HEVC.MP4

You can see it in the VLC snapshot (series of rings around the edges):

https://nikkisandbox.dreamhosters.com/temporary/magix/hevc/vlcsnap-2022-12-08-11h12m07s755.png

The false-color version in red is interesting and highlights the limb darkening. But it is more difficult to identify any compression artifacts around the edges with the false color.

I did try disabling hardware acceleration but it is much too slow. For now, the best solution seems to be to just not use HEVC. None of the original videos use HEVC, so exporting edited videos without HEVC isn't a big deal.

@nicolesharp100

Hi

. . . . Simply loading the video into Video Pro X14 and then exporting it as HEVC with the best possible settings (for a 60 MBd video) will reproduce the compression artifacts. . . . .

Why are you still exporting at 60Mb/s?

As @Marc-Goder has commented, and I agree with, this is not required for exporting 1920 x 1080 at 59.97 (60) fps.

I have uploaded 2 clip of the MVI_0781 exported from VPX using the default HEVC export settings here and a Level 6.2 60Mb/s here for you to test playing on your computer. Other than the atmospheric shimmer I see no artefacts on playback in either video file.

If you see artefacts in these when playing in your default player then I suspect the issue is with the computer/player not handling HEVC playback correctly - which player are you using? I have tested with Films & TV, Windows Media Player and VLC and see no artefacts in any of them

The MediaInfo data for both files is:

 

Complete name                            : M:\MVI_0781 export HEVC default settings.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 3.93 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 7 264 kb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2022-12-08 11:34:42
Tagged date                              : UTC 2022-12-08 11:34:42

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L4.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Bit rate                                 : 7 063 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits

Complete name                            : M:\MVI_0781 HEVC 60Mb-s.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : iso4 (iso4/hvc1)
File size                                : 5.45 MiB
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 10.1 Mb/s

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 s 538 ms
Bit rate                                 : 9 883 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits

As you can see the 60Mb/s file bitrate setting is not made a huge impact on the bitrate of the video, and visually there is no difference in the quality.

The higher bitrate, compared to the longer MVI_2565 file previously tested, is due to the zoomed in nature of the video, requiring more data to be encoded with.

HTH

John EB

 

 

Why does your export with default settings produce such a much larger filesize? Exporting with default settings on my system is only 233 kB, not 4024 kB:

https://nikkisandbox.dreamhosters.com/temporary/magix/hevc/MVI_0781-HEVC-default.MP4

If we are using the same software and exporting the same file with the same settings and getting very different results, then it seems to be a driver or codec error, and perhaps not something wrong with the Magix software directly.

I can try installing Magix Video Pro X14 on the laptop instead as the next troubleshooting step. That has an Intel processor and Intel graphics, whereas the desktop has an AMD processor and AMD graphics. Otherwise seems easier to use AVC instead of HEVC.

@nicolesharp100

Hi

. . . . we are using the same software and exporting the same file with the same settings and getting very different results, then it seems to be a driver or codec error, . . .

Agreed - are the drivers for the Radeon RX 550 up to date - the latest version is 22.11.2 available here ?

. . . .  It is subtle but noticeable . . . . new 4K UHD monitor, so all videos are being upscaled for full screen playback . . . .

When I zoom in and look at a single frame, I can see some subtle 'rings' in the HEVC exports, I think you are seeing them more with the video being upscaled for the 4K monitor - I am using 2 x 1920 x 1080 monitors and on playback the atmospheric shimmer is blurring these together which is why I am not seeing them during playback.

. . . . Why does your export with default settings produce such a much larger filesize? Exporting with default settings on my system is only 233 kB, not 4024 kB . . . .

A very good question - as I commented to @AAProds above - and this is a bit of a longshot - is there an all-in-one codec pack, such as K-Lite, installed?

If this is the case then try uninstalling the codec pack as they are known to interfere with the Magix codecs.

John EB

@nicolesharp100

Hi Nicole.

I haven't altered the colour of the file, just the brightness curves and saturation. John's image may be showing rings of graduation because I have never seen him tick the 'Use dithering for output' on his exports. Look at his earlier export setting example which is similar to the one below.

The differences between hardware encoding output from nvidia and AMD graphics cards have always been quite different with nvidia having much more experience. A quote from Tomshardware although other sites also seem to support this.

Video encoding and decoding are another important aspect, and here Nvidia definitely comes out ahead. The Turing and Ampere codecs support higher-quality encodes and lower GPU utilization, both good things. There's no need for CPU-based video encoding with Nvidia's latest GPUs. AMD's budget Navi 24 chips lack some key video encoding features as well.

@AAProds

While I can find examples of where you are correct there are also examples where I am also correct.

Because they are not my videos I can't really show a full screen but the same position at different resolutions.

There are quite a few of those across YouTube. I have as yet to come across a video with an AV1 codec but that could be dependent on the web browser support. And yes YouTube is running at a loss and is trying out all sorts of limited experiments at present to see where costs can be cut. Around 3.7m new videos are uploaded to YouTube every day (2022 figures) with an average length of 4.4 minutes. Most are private videos for friends and family that draw little to no advertising revenue. This is one reason the amount of adds per video showing has increased in recent months with some drawing as many as ten adverts per video depending on length and popularity of the video. They are also experimenting with trying to defeat add blockers.

Paying for storage space and internet bandwidth had been a problem for Flickr for years ending up with a buyout and very restricted amount of uploads for those not willing to pay for a Pro account. I don't think YouTube will be able to do exactly the same but don't count out something similar happening in the future. Maybe restricted amounts of videos stored for those channels not gaining enough subscribers to be considered viable to YouTube. That could work as there are more people with YouTube accounts than actually upload content.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

. . . . there are also examples where I am also correct . . . .

A thought - if those you show above have been uploaded at, or higher than, the resolution Alwyn mentioned to get VP09 encoding, then the lower resolutions are the derivatives of the higher resolution upload, I doubt YT would use a different codec just for the lower resolution variants.

John EB

@johnebaker

High John.

Those videos only have a 1080p maximum viewing option. LTT and other sites also have the same applied on some but not all their videos. I don't know if this could be a transitional stage or not. I don't know if some of the videos may have been available at 4K and are now blocked at my end or not. I assume not as I can view other channels 4K content, even 8K although 8K stutters at my end. I do know there have been complaints by some content providers that the earlier the video was uploaded the more compressed and worse looking it gets over time. These YouTubers have their own master copies to compare to. Alas all my paid for content comes from either Virgin or Amazon so can't compare what I see on individual YouTube channels beyond what I already see.

I have also noticed even if I set my viewing preference to auto 4K, some content comes in at 720p or lower and I have to manually increase it. That doesn't happen every time but randomly. It can get very frustrating at times.

Lower bit compression viewing is getting better though and does seem to benefit those videos that were never HD quality to begin with.

Ray.

@nicolesharp100

Hi

. . . . we are using the same software and exporting the same file with the same settings and getting very different results, then it seems to be a driver or codec error, . . .

Agreed - are the drivers for the Radeon RX 550 up to date - the latest version is 22.11.2 available here ?

. . . .  It is subtle but noticeable . . . . new 4K UHD monitor, so all videos are being upscaled for full screen playback . . . .

When I zoom in and look at a single frame, I can see some subtle 'rings' in the HEVC exports, I think you are seeing them more with the video being upscaled for the 4K monitor - I am using 2 x 1920 x 1080 monitors and on playback the atmospheric shimmer is blurring these together which is why I am not seeing them during playback.

. . . . Why does your export with default settings produce such a much larger filesize? Exporting with default settings on my system is only 233 kB, not 4024 kB . . . .

A very good question - as I commented to @AAProds above - and this is a bit of a longshot - is there an all-in-one codec pack, such as K-Lite, installed?

If this is the case then try uninstalling the codec pack as they are known to interfere with the Magix codecs.

John EB

I have Microsoft Video Editor, OpenShot, KDENLive, Blackmagic DaVinci Resolve, Corel VideoStudio 2018, and OBS Studio installed in addition to Magix Video Pro X14.

I am uncomfortable with the idea that the HEVC export will produce a different quality of video depending on the video card used. I want a consistent editing experience so that I can obtain identical results regardless of the system used, especially if I need to edit videos on multiple machines with different brands of video cards. That alone is a good reason for me to not be using HEVC if I don't need to. I don't have any problems with the larger file sizes for AVC when uploading to YouTube (other than the long wait with 10 MBd cable internet). I also noticed that there is no video preview for HEVC videos on Microsoft Windows 10 File Explorer (AVC videos show a thumbnail image from the video but HEVC videos are only a standard icon).

If you think that Google YouTube will be around forever, remember what happened to Google Plus.

I do have Flickr Pro, but I don't know of an easy way to get videos cut to meet the requirement of not being more than 10 minutes in length and not more than 1 GB in filesize. Is there a way to automatically cut a long video (or multiple long videos) into 10-minute segments or 2-minute segments? 1 GB over 10 minutes will be about 13 MBd but using HEVC should give "more bang for the buck". At 60 MBd AVC, to keep the original video quality, then that would require cutting each video into 2-minute clips for 1 GB each. The advantage of Flickr over YouTube is that the original video quality is preserved (anyone can download the original video file, which is not possible from YouTube), so cutting into 2-minute clips without any additional compression will preserve the entire video on the public internet as losslessly as possible (including for import to Wikimedia Commons).

I don't see any significant compression artifacts on Flickr as compared to YouTube:

https://www.flickr.com/nicolesharp/52126919011/in/album-72177720299577401/

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5fT0c29NhOq0juNSEu1w6I4kzJckJVh-

@nicolesharp100

Hi Nicole.

I haven't altered the colour of the file, just the brightness curves and saturation. John's image may be showing rings of graduation because I have never seen him tick the 'Use dithering for output' on his exports. Look at his earlier export setting example which is similar to the one below.

The differences between hardware encoding output from nvidia and AMD graphics cards have always been quite different with nvidia having much more experience. A quote from Tomshardware although other sites also seem to support this.

Video encoding and decoding are another important aspect, and here Nvidia definitely comes out ahead. The Turing and Ampere codecs support higher-quality encodes and lower GPU utilization, both good things. There's no need for CPU-based video encoding with Nvidia's latest GPUs. AMD's budget Navi 24 chips lack some key video encoding features as well.

 

@AAProds

While I can find examples of where you are correct there are also examples where I am also correct.

Because they are not my videos I can't really show a full screen but the same position at different resolutions.

There are quite a few of those across YouTube. I have as yet to come across a video with an AV1 codec but that could be dependent on the web browser support. And yes YouTube is running at a loss and is trying out all sorts of limited experiments at present to see where costs can be cut. Around 3.7m new videos are uploaded to YouTube every day (2022 figures) with an average length of 4.4 minutes. Most are private videos for friends and family that draw little to no advertising revenue. This is one reason the amount of adds per video showing has increased in recent months with some drawing as many as ten adverts per video depending on length and popularity of the video. They are also experimenting with trying to defeat add blockers.

Paying for storage space and internet bandwidth had been a problem for Flickr for years ending up with a buyout and very restricted amount of uploads for those not willing to pay for a Pro account. I don't think YouTube will be able to do exactly the same but don't count out something similar happening in the future. Maybe restricted amounts of videos stored for those channels not gaining enough subscribers to be considered viable to YouTube. That could work as there are more people with YouTube accounts than actually upload content.

Ray.

"Use dithering for output" is unselected by default. What is this? Should I turn it on?

@nicolesharp100

Hi.

"Use dithering for output" reduces banding of large areas of gradual tonal colour change and prevents 'Banding' of contrast such as John's 'rings'. I notice it happens on my video content a lot if not switched on but others may not either notice or suffer from it. While my monitors are not HDR I can notice a difference of contrast equal to 2 steps of the 000 to 255 of RGB values. Possibly down to my editing viewing conditions being very tightly controlled or possibly eyesight differences. Hard to tell. I would think it is slightly different for everyone partially equipment and setup dependent and partly viewing conditions and eyesight. The need to turn it on or not may also be component dependent in as much better processing power or better monitors may not require it. That I don't know as my system for video editing I would describe as lower mid tier by today's standards.

Ray.

@nicolesharp100

Hi

IMHO plunging further into the HEVC encoding rabbit hole is now at a stage of diminishing returns and I will bow out of this topic discussion, as you are happy using AVC/h.264 encoding for the somewhat unique, however very interesting, subject video you are producing.

John EB

@nicolesharp100

Hi.

"Use dithering for output" reduces banding of large areas of gradual tonal colour change and prevents 'Banding' of contrast such as John's 'rings'. I notice it happens on my video content a lot if not switched on but others may not either notice or suffer from it. While my monitors are not HDR I can notice a difference of contrast equal to 2 steps of the 000 to 255 of RGB values. Possibly down to my editing viewing conditions being very tightly controlled or possibly eyesight differences. Hard to tell. I would think it is slightly different for everyone partially equipment and setup dependent and partly viewing conditions and eyesight. The need to turn it on or not may also be component dependent in as much better processing power or better monitors may not require it. That I don't know as my system for video editing I would describe as lower mid tier by today's standards.

Ray.

Enabling dithering possibly makes a slight improvement, but I can still see some artifacts not present in the original video. Why is dithering disabled by default if it makes the videos better??

@nicolesharp100

Hi

IMHO plunging further into the HEVC encoding rabbit hole is now at a stage of diminishing returns and I will bow out of this topic discussion, as you are happy using AVC/h.264 encoding for the somewhat unique, however very interesting, subject video you are producing.

John EB

If the issue can't be duplicated on non-AMD systems, then it seems to be a problem specific to my AMD hardware. The next troubleshooting step then is to install Magix Video Pro X14 on a computer with Intel graphics instead to see if that makes a difference.

I already deleted the HEVC videos and re-uploaded the videos re-coded as AVC instead. Doesn't make much difference for YouTube, but it does make a difference on Flickr.

I am going to delete the temporary directory, but if anyone with AMD wants to test the HEVC encoding, you can freely download from Flickr the sample video used here, which is available with a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license:

https://www.flickr.com/nicolesharp/52126919011/

At the bottom-right corner, there should be an icon for "download this video" which you can right-click and select "save link as". Downloading from Flickr should provide the original video file generated by the camera, without any recoding done by Flickr (like happens with YouTube).

https://www.flickr.com/search/?user_id=nicolesharp&tags=sol&video_content_types=0%2C1%2C2%2C3&sort=date-posted-desc&view_all=1

@nicolesharp100

Hi.

"Use dithering for output" reduces banding of large areas of gradual tonal colour change and prevents 'Banding' of contrast such as John's 'rings'. I notice it happens on my video content a lot if not switched on but others may not either notice or suffer from it. While my monitors are not HDR I can notice a difference of contrast equal to 2 steps of the 000 to 255 of RGB values. Possibly down to my editing viewing conditions being very tightly controlled or possibly eyesight differences. Hard to tell. I would think it is slightly different for everyone partially equipment and setup dependent and partly viewing conditions and eyesight. The need to turn it on or not may also be component dependent in as much better processing power or better monitors may not require it. That I don't know as my system for video editing I would describe as lower mid tier by today's standards.

Ray.

Enabling dithering possibly makes a slight improvement, but I can still see some artifacts not present in the original video. Why is dithering disabled by default if it makes the videos better??

Wikipedia has a nice set of images explaining dithering:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dither#Examples_2

It looks like it introduces artificial noise to help smooth out transitions (the rings seen with HEVC compression of an otherwise smooth gradient with AVC compression). I feel like that might be helpful for Terrestrial videography, but for astrovideography it might be problematic. Enabling dithering does look it helped a little bit but not enough as compared to using AVC.

Most cameras have a built-in anti-aliasing filter but you can have the filter removed to get better quality astrophotos and astrovideos. The problem with removing the anti-aliasing filter is that it can introduce moire for Terrestrial JPEG/MP4 photography/videography. It looks like applying dithering with Magix though might help remove moire for aliased MP4 videos?

@CubeAce

Ray,

I have as yet to come across a video with an AV1 codec but that could be dependent on the web browser support.

Your screenshot:

@nicolesharp100

Hi Nicole.

Anything to do with digital is basically black or white. Ones and zeros. Smoothness is an illusion of enough bits reduced to the point the eye can't differentiate. If you are seeing differences between an AVC file and an HEVC file then it is down to the HEVC file being more compressed. The file you produce in your camera is already compressed unless it records raw data. It has already had smoothing dialed in by your camera settings. But for the majority of users that is a bonus as being able to edit raw data better than a good dedicated camera processor can be tricky at best. Taking away any filter from the sensor tend to turn a perfectly good camera body into a one trick pony in my opinion for whatever that is worth. Every image I take is a calculated compromise of exposure vs movement, combined with white balance adjustment, aperture decisions and ISO adjustments as well as composition and whatever else is deemed to be important at the time. Nice if you have the time to set it up.

Any aliasing that control will do will be less than trying to adjust something within the editor manually.

Astro photography as you say has its own sets of problems. Tracking for one, and at night the problem of hot pixels from long exposures and light pollution if you are not lucky enough to live away from civilization. Moire is going go be more of a problem with a 48MP or more camera than a 24MP one. Hot pixels at night I would think an even bigger problem than Moire. I'm not sure how other camera manufacturers deal with hot pixels but my Nikon bodies take an additional exposure of the same duration as the last shot but with the shutters closed. That then causes the same photo-sites to heat up and a negative produced image to pair up with and negate any hot pixels showing up on the exposure. As I live where there is a lot of light pollution and even driving for a few hours wouldn't get me way from it, my amount of astro photography has been limited. Videoing it has been non existent. I would think time lapse and stacking may be the way to go with that but I haven't looked into it let alone tried it.

If you have a camera body you can risk having a procedure done to then it would be worth the risk but whether that would solve any problems I couldn't speculate. In theory HEVC should be superior as it has the ability to record in smaller blocks of colour than AVC but it needs enough bits per image to work well. As Al (AAProds) alluded to earlier, AV1 is on it's way as the 'new best thing'. I don't think the specs are that much better than HEVC quality wise but is open source which HEVC isn't so should win out in the end. Whether dedicated cameras will record with it is yet to be seen. If quality is of the most importance for an upload then the best bet is to just upload the original footage straight from camera but that means what is captured must be correct in camera. That could be a problem with Flickr with the 1GB file limit but would have best results. If you could capture footage at 4K then that would be best for YouTube as well as YouTube will compress any file uploaded to it regardless.

To be clear, these are just my own thoughts based on personal experiences and no more.

Ray.