@Steve-McClelland

Hi Steve

. . . . in a specific clip even with interpolating thingy box checked it was still a little jittery, so put back to full speed and was fine. Is that my pc just cant handle it? . . . .

If you are referring to the Preview monitor is jittery, then definitely.

How large the speed change is can make it jittery in the final video, however there are other issues which come into play.

In the example below the speed is 1/10 of normal - original video was 25 fps, as you can see the faster cars on the left are jittery, however the right wall of the tunnel is relatively smooth in the distance, however as its relative speed to the camera increases it becomes jittery - as seen in the road sign and lights.

John EB

Final export was jittery. I can understand the one you posted as was filmed 25fps so slowing down is not good because as soon as you go below 24fps then not possible to be smooth, however i filmed in 60fps and slowed 50% so should have been ok at 30fps. Dont know why.

@johnebaker @Steve-McClelland

Hi Steve.

I'm still not quite sure what is causing some of the blocky looking parts of some of your tree branch areas and water surfaces.

I looked at one of my backup discs for an old project I did when I first got my DJI Osmo Pocket to try out its various modes but never put the video up as the focus at that point still had issues before their first firmware update came out. I looked at it because it had a lot of bare tree branches at various depths and shots of open water. So today I rendered it using my trusted export settings to 1080p (It was filmed at 1080p 29.97fps.) for you to look at and compare. There is focus shift and panning issues and not on general view due to me wanting to re-film most of it at some point.

Certainly the speed altering plugin within MEP I think can be improved by using the dedicated ReSpeeder plugin from ProDad which seems to do a better job but I would advise trying out the trial version first in case you don't agree. I had the free version that came with one of my earlier versions of MEP for a while and only used it a couple of times but was impressed with it. I'm not sure how I lost the plug-in but it may have been a time limited one. This shows the difference between the ProDad offering and the what can be normally offered as a standard plugin.

I don't think the spec of your machine has anything to do with the quality of the output. That I think still comes down to finding settings that work. It should only effect render times and not much else as far as I can remember when I was using an older machine. I still don't sharpen my output and I tend to do any slow motion in camera most of the time.

I too am puzzled at why there should be problems at half the frame rate but it could be down to shutter speed.

The gaps of time between each frame due to light conditions can be fast, especially if you leave the ISO setting on auto and the camera decides to use a higher one and keep the frame exposures short. The gap of time between each frame when no image is being recorded can then be more noticeable. I assume changing the speed of such a shot would be more challenging at that point.

The use of an ND filter may also help to lengthen the exposure time of a frame as long as you still get enough light to properly expose to 1/60s at 60fps. That though is a skill in itself. Unfortunately the ISO and shutter speeds are not recorded into video exif data so you have to learn by observation of lighting conditions and using a notepad to record the light and settings used until you get a feel for it.

Ray.

Thanks Ray, For information I always shoot in manual mode with the general rule of photography in that shutter speed should be twice the frame rate. Below is what I shoot at.

60fps X 120 shutter speed x ISO between 100-200

My drone camera is also capable of slow motion and can shoot at 120 FPS and also 240fps, so I might as you say shoot slow motion in camera and then less to change in post.

Thanks.

@Steve-McClelland

Hi Steve.

I understand the theory of using twice the shutter speed to frame rate rule to produce a more fluid natural movement during video playback which was really to help film and TV production frame rates of 24 and 25fps and closer to the average human eyes' perceived frame rate, but what happens if you apply the rule when shooting at higher frame rates already?

The gap of time between frames increases which can result in a staccato looking movement when capturing higher speed movement within a frame, or the camera movement speed itself alternates resulting in less or more distance traveled between each frame. What happens to the perceived motion due to the lack exposed frames during the time gaps where no image is recorded? Trying then to slow down such footage makes the job of speed changing plugins harder.

It's a tricky balance as the plugin tries to add frames to the video based on the differences between frames and tries to blend two frames to produce extra frames which is what I am fairly sure the MEP plugin uses over the option of the ProDad plugin that can use the optical flow mode to produce smoother looking additional 'between' frames.

To my mind the twice shutter speed rule is more of a guideline than a specific rule that works well in some situations and less in others but I'm happy for other people to argue otherwise so I can try out and experiment with, to compare my results against, and help me to change practices when I find better shooting alternatives.

Ray.

@Steve-McClelland, @CubeAce

Hi

. . . . I always shoot in manual mode . . . . 60fps X 120 shutter speed x ISO between 100-200 . . . .

AFAICS the Mavic Air camera has a fixed aperture (f2.8) lens - how is exposure level being controlled, there is no variable left to adjust - the sensor gain is the ISO setting.

The gap of time between frames increases which can result in a staccato looking movement when capturing higher speed movement within a frame, or the camera movement speed itself alternates resulting in less or more distance traveled between each frame. . . . .

Agreed, however, at the slower shutter speeds there is more blur as the subject moves across the scene, at higher shutter speeds there is less blur which should increases the staccato effect as the jump between frames would be more obvious with the sharper image.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi John.

Lots of variables to take into account John which is why I'm not a 'One setting fits all scenarios' type of shooter and open to experimentation in shooting techniques😉. Also depending on the camera platform another whole different set of problems can crop up to deal with.

Agreed, however, at the slower shutter speeds there is more blur as the subject moves across the scene, at higher shutter speeds there is less blur which should increases the staccato effect as the jump between frames would be more obvious with the sharper image.

Eloquently put and part of what I was more clumsily trying to put across.

Everything is compromise and 'best practice' is conditional to environmental and perceptual needs as well as mechanical or electronic restrictions.

Which is why my most favoured bit of kit is my notebook. I often get lazy and rely on either auto settings or manual presets when just out and about but for anything serious I use my notes and tune them as needed.

My pet hate at present is mixed artificial lighting. There seems to be only a no win scenario at present.

Ray.

Just thinking now about “ticking interpolation box” Someone mentioned that this fills in images when reducing the speed. However, i can understand this if original footage was filmed at 24 or 25fps as otherwise fps would not be enough to be smooth. Therefore when filming at the 60fps and simply slowing to 30fps maybe i don’t need ti tick that box??

@Steve-McClelland

Hi Steve.

You mean when using the speed change plugin?

I think it is best left ticked personally, but you can experiment. There is very little information on what methods this plugin uses that I know of.

Ray.

What do you mean by plugin? Don’t we just slow speed and tick interpolating box. Am I missing something

@Steve-McClelland

Hi Steve. We could be talking at crossed purposes here or it could be I'm missing something.

The only interpolation box I know of is in the settings of the speed changing plugin's box.

Each effect is a 'plugin'.

If you are talking about interlacing that is a different process and not needed.

Ray.

@Steve-McClelland

Hi

. . . . Therefore when filming at the 60fps and simply slowing to 30fps maybe i don’t need ti tick that box?? . . . .

If you are exporting at 30 fps then in theory there is no need to check the Interpolation option.

John EB

👍

Hi John, i want to export 60fps, so then maybe i shoot at 120fps/slow 50% to 60fps and no tick in box and then export 60fps. Will try this thanks

Here are two options of spec I might go for. What do you guys think. I have now gone to high PC Custom build and they too say just plug both monitors into graphics card.

Option 1

Case 

Aerocool Rift Glass Windowed Case

Power Supply 

Aerocool Cylon 700W Power Supply 80 Plus

Processor 

Intel Core i7 10700F 8 Cores 16 Threads 2.9GHz / 4.8Ghz

Cooler 

Intel Stock Cooler 

Motherboard 

Gigabyte Z490 GAMING X AX ATX

SSD 

Using customers 500GB SSD

Secondary HDD 

Using customers 4TB HDD

Memory 

16GB DDR4

Wi-Fi Card 

Using the onboard WiFi

Graphics Card 

NVIDIA GTX 1660 6GB Graphics Card

Card Reader 

N/A

Optical Drive 

N/A

Operating System 

Windows 10 Home - OEM

Warranty 

1 Year Return to Base

Option 2

PC Specification…

Case 

Aerocool Rift Glass Windowed Case

Power Supply 

Aerocool Cylon 700W Power Supply 80 Plus

Processor 

Intel Core i7 10700F 8 Cores 16 Threads 2.9GHz / 4.8Ghz

Cooler 

Intel Stock Cooler 

Motherboard 

Gigabyte Z490 GAMING X AX ATX

SSD 

Using customers 500GB SSD

Secondary HDD 

Using customers 4TB HDD

Memory 

16GB DDR4

Wi-Fi Card 

Using the onboard WiFi

Graphics Card 

NVIDIA RTX 3060 Ti 8GB Graphics Card

Card Reader 

N/A

Optical Drive 

N/A

Operating System 

Windows 10 Home - OEM

Warranty 

1 Year Return to Base

@Steve-McClelland

Hi

The processor is not suitable the i7 10700F has no integrated graphics - this is a must for best performance.

Is this the processor they recommended or did you select it. If they recommended it, then it needs stressing that the Intel processor must have an integrated GPU eg an  i7-10700K.

There are a two components that I would change:

1. Case - windowed cases can be a pain in the neck to keep clean.
    
2. Intel stock cooler - replace with a four pipe cooler - I have replaced mine with an Arctic Freezer 34 eSport (single fan) the processor runs about 10° cooler when under heavy load and also means the computer is quieter as the fan is large and rotates slower.

HTH

John EB

Hi John, this was there recommendation fully. Thanks for feedback, I will discuss again with them. 👍

@Steve-McClelland @johnebaker

HiSteve.

Every time I have seen one of your builders proposed rigs I think to myself they are proposing a great gaming rig, not necessarily a good video editing rig. Are you specifying a rig also good for gaming?

Ray.

Below is my email sent to them.

Hello,

Below are my current pc specs.

Windows 10 Home, Processor intel i5-4670k CPU 3.4gh 4 Core, Graphics card Nvidia Geforce GTX 780 Ti, 3GB Ram, Hard drive 500gb SSD, 4TB WD Black, software using Magix edit pro Premium 2021 (NOTE as 3gb ram only in graphics card had to turn off hardware acceleration and also change to windows video compatibility mode)

If you read through my word document, for what I require I think I need an i7 with HD630 or higher integrated Graphics and also something like GTX 1070 External graphics card. Please read requirements from the Magix software in the word document.

Main object for performance should be based around video editing which a lot of people say is similar to gaming, however, video editing 4k is more demanding so please take this on board.

I am planning budget of 1k but obviously the less the better, but lets see what you can recommend. 

@Steve-McClelland

Hi Steve,

You should change that to "I need an Intel processor with integrated HD630." They proposed the  i7 10700F which does not have integrated graphics HD630. I suggest that you tell them that this is a requirement, not a suggestion, and that they keep this in mind for anyone else who wants a computer for video editing (not just with Magix programs). A video editing program is not a game.

John CB

@Steve-McClelland, @CubeAce, @browj2

Hi

The HD 630 is an older integrated GPU which was last seen in the 8th generation of Intel processors.

Some 8th generation processors have the UHD 630 - this was the generation of processor where the changeover started.

From the 10th generation the iGPU options are the UHD 630, and the newer Iris X series of graphics processor became available.

The 'fly in the ointment' is Iris X series, which, while looking to be significantly faster than the UHD 630, we do not know if MEP/VPX can use them.

John EB

@johnebaker @Steve-McClelland @browj2

Hi John.

• The 'fly in the ointment' is Iris X series, which, while looking to be significantly faster than the UHD 630, we do not know if MEP/VPX can use them.

According to the Intel website, the Xe Dedicated, 6th - 11th generation, Apollo Lake, Gemini Lake, Amber Lake, Whiskey Lake, Comet Lake, Lakefield, Jasper Lake & Rocket Lake use the same DCH driver, so presumably it could. There are no separate listings for drivers for it.

Ray.