The movie settings were correct with frame rate 23.976. When I imported the movie I clicked yes to set the movie settings the same as the import. But when I exported clips or the whole movie using a selected codec, the frame rate was actually 23.98. I used another program to check the frame rate. When I selected AVI export it originally said the frame rate was 23.976, but after doing the Advanced setting, the frame rate was then quoted as 23.98. So MEP leaves off trailing zeroes in the frame rate rather than just quoting it to 2 significant digits after the decimal point. However, when right clicking on a movie track in MEP and selecting the properties it quotes 23.98 even though I know it is actually 23.976. Windows does the same thing when looking at properties. However I can use VLC to play the video track and then check the codec to get the actual frame rate to 8 digits. MEP REALLY did change the frame rate but somehow kept the audio and video in sync. So when I put the correct frame rate back in, it messed up the audio sync. So apparently there are other specifications that I do not see. In some cases it uses the frame rate, but in others it does not. A confirmation is that when I try to export a clip, with selected codec, MEP says that the 23.98 frame rate of the source and the 23.98 frame rate of the export do not match. This is correct because the source is 23.976, but the export is specified 23.98. If I manually change the export frame rate to 23.976, error message goes away. MEP gratuitously changes parameters that should not be changed during selection of advanced options. Please notice it also changed the aspect ratio. I can set the frame rate exactly to 23.976 by clicking on the "..." next to the frame rate box, and it shows all 5 digits. The arrow selection of frame rates has a number of rates including 29.97, but it has 23.98 NOT the standard 23.976. You can easily confirm what I have found.

Part of the problem may be that a number of web publications have quoted 23.98 rounded off instead of the correct figure of 23.976 = 23.97 * 4/5. Actually 23.976 is a rounded off figure because examining NTSC DVDs I found that the frame rate is 29.970029. Some programs just round off 29.97 to 30 and 23.976 to 24. Adobe Photoshop also does not recognize 23.976 and rounds it to 23.98, but VirtualDub can be used to put it back to the correct value with properly synchronized video and audio. VD can change the video, but leave the audio alone.

In either case MEP should not mess with parameters that have already been set when changing unrelated options in the advanced menu. I have been using MEP for many years and fighting variations of these problems. I think because it is European design, they have messed up some things in US (NTSC) standards. When I work with PAL videos, these problems do not happen. PAL videos export the correct frames! They have also gratuitously changed one other thing. The latest version does not recognize a .JPS file as a renamed .JPG. JPS is used as a clue that the file is a side by side 3D format. The previous version I used, did recognize JPS, but just treated it as a JPG, instead of properly formatting it for 3D. It now just gives an error message if I try to import a .JPS image file.

So this the suggestion is not a solution.

@clement5

Hi

This issue sounds similar to this issue with audio sync and framerates - see my findings.

HTH

John EB

Yes, there is definitely a problem here. Unfortunately I do not have a way of looking at all the metadata, so I will hunt around to see what I find. I think I can use VirtualDub or VLC to scope out some things.

@clement5

Hi

. . . . I do not have a way of looking at all the metadata . . .

The program you want for this is MediaInfo, a great utility used by a lot of users here for getting all the data on video clips (can also be used on audio and images).

The data I quoted in the comment I linked to is part of the full data set from the program.

HTH

John EB

The plot thickens. Using virtualDub to find the number of frames and the total time I get a frame rate of 23.98, while VLC reports 23.976, so it may be that the actual frame rate is different from the reported one. I will be going back through the processes used to get the detelecined version of the original video and see where the discrepancy happened. Note that MEP set the project frame rate at 23.976 when the video was imported.

OK, I found the problem. I have a video file that VirtualDub shows as 1:16:41.421 long which is 4601.421s, with 110324 frames which has 23.976067 frame rate. I put it into MEP and MEP set the frame rate to 97.976. Then I tried to output it to an AVi and selected, using the advanced option, Lagarith MEP changed it to 97.98. I am in the process of exporting and checking the output result. The original file had good audo sync, and I am betting the output will show metadata as 23.976, but will actually have 23.980 based on the number of frames and what VD reports as the time. So MEP gratuitously rounds off the frame rate to the wrong number of digits. Of course this does not explain the wrong export based on the selected frame. I suspect that is also a round off problem. The change in the aspect ratio may be that MEP is using the width and height to calculate it, but anamorphic is an NTSC standard for 4:3.

Ok, the results are that the output indeed has 23.98 frame rate based on the number of frames 110243 and the time 1:16:41.458, but the metadata still shows 23.976. MEP has added 19 frames to the file. I have already done extensive editing on a file that is supposed to be progressive, but now I have an almost progressive result, a botched job which now wastes a couple of weeks of work. UGH. The new video file does have the audio in sync so MEP apparently changed the audio as it added 19 extra frames in unknown locations. I might be able to kill the botched frames by using VirtualDub or AVIsynth, but that would probably cause extra problems.

@clement5

Hi

. . . . I will be going back through the processes used to get the detelecined version of the original video. . . .

What is the format of the original video, how are you detelecining it and to what file format?

John EB

Detelecining can be done using VirtualDub2 or the older VirtualDub. The function to do it is IVTC with frame rate reduction which is done to 23.976. That number is selected automatically. This works well for properly telecined NTSC DVD or VHS videos of standard movies.. You can use VirtualDub to examine a video frame by frame to see if it follows the pattern of 3 progressive frames followed by 2 interlaced frames. Some videos, especially public domain videos from small outlets may have a 2:3 pattern which will not be properly detelecined by VD. (2 progressive & 3 interlaced) However using Avisynth as the front end to VD you can use the sequence of commands:

TDeint(mode=1, order=1, field=1)
srestore(frate=23.976)

This sequence also helps if the interlaced frames have ghosting, but it may reduce the resolution slightly.

I always output to Lagarith codec because I often do multiple editing sequences and I wish to avoid any degradation by "lossy" codecs. Incidentally if you make cuts in videos and burn a DVD, the result often has sound and video no longer synchronized. The solution I found is to export the entire project as one Lagarith AVI, and then import that into another project for burning. This may be an artifact of the bugs I have already detailed.

I use VirtualDub to also remove spots and noise with the added plugins Neat and Spot Remover.. In addition Deshaker is used to stabilize videos using the nearby frame fill. However it must be run using an Avisynth script. The original shaky video often has to be used when there is panning with objects entering or leaving the frame. In addition Photoshop is used to rotoscope (frame by frame editing) portions of the video. The object is to have a watchable result. Also VD Temporal smoother is carefully used to remove random jitter and mute some brightness variations.

If MEP had editing capabilities such as the Photoshop frame to frame cloning, and painting my work would go much faster. Some VD filters are not duplicated in MEP, and the current MEP only supports 64 bit VD filters, while only a few of the old 32 bit filters have been transferred to 64bit versions. this is probably more than you want to know.
 

The aspect ratio changes were due to the fact that the video output from the initial VirtualDub2 work had 3:2 as the ratio according to the metadata. Curiously when MEP said the info did not match, it changed the aspect ratio to 4:3 for the project. Then on subsequent exports I selected aspect ratio of 4:3, but MEP did not change it from 3:2. So that problem is now known, but not solved. I am petitioning the VD people to fix its aspect ratio problem, but MEP should still put the selected aspect ratio into the metadata.

Looking further:about the aspect ratio change. 

1. Looking at the file and right clicking on it in MEP, then clicking on “Object properties” I
find that the aspect ratio was selected to be 4:3

2. Also the Movie settings have aspect ratio of 4:3

3.    So it should have been kept at 4:3, and should not be changed by clicking on “Advanced” when
doing an export.

Magix has gotten a sample video and now they are possibly working on it. They suggested that I could set the frame rate to the proper value, but when I do that the audio and video go out of sync. I am forced to keep the wrong frame rate. I have also petitioned the VirtualDub developers to fix the aspect ratio problem. It should be easy.

As a side note, I found a way to use VirtualDub to set the frame rate properly before creating a DVD. I export the video, in the wrong frame rate, and then use VD to reset the frame rate and keep the sync. Then I import the new file into MEP to burn a DVD. Actually I have found that often MEP will mis-sync audio when burning from the original project, but exporting does not, so I always export and use the exported file for creating the DVD.

The frame rate problem may only happen when you have a number of segments in your project and/or the original segments were cut to remove bad sections.