Thanks John,

I'm new to Magix so please bear with me.

Your Haswell Gen 4 i5 cpu with Intel HD4600 Graphics (I also have one) is not a fair performance comparison for the new functions designed for the new Gen 7 cpus with Intel 630 Graphics in the video. Even Quick Sync has been upgraded.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10959/intel-launches-7th-generation-kaby-lake-i7-7700k-i5-7600k-i3-7350k/6

I have experienced quality problems with Quick Sync and found out why here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7007/intels-haswell-an-htpc-perspective/8

Gen 7 Quick Sync has improved and has two settings to choose between Speed and Quality

I couldn't get your link to work - but still don't see "How Magix Made 4K 360 Video Editing Swift and Easy" video on the Movie Edit Pro Premium web page. The claims made in the video are important in the 4k editing world assuming they can be demonstrated as true. I'm building a new i7-7700k desktop soon and Magix may be my new NLE.

I want to see 4k editing on an i7-7700k please. Magix should produce a video.

Al

Hi Al

. . . . is not a fair performance comparison . . . .

Agreed, however I think you missed the point of my post:

If I can run Movie Edit Pro Premium, on an i5-4670K, editing 4k video satisfactorily, with smooth playback, except for a few effects and collages, which can be smoothed by using the pre-render function, then a 7th gen i7 with the better integrated graphics and Intel HD codecs is going to perform better - assuming all other thing being equal.

. . . . I couldn't get your link to work - but still don't see "How Magix Made 4K 360 Video Editing Swift and Easy" video on the Movie Edit Pro Premium web page . . . .

I did not say that video, which is a promotional video, was on the page I linked to, I said it contains the important information (the link has been corrected).

. . . . I have experienced quality problems with Quick Sync . . . .

Post a new question in the forum to see if we can reproduce the problem - see here for information required.

I do not have an issue with quality using QuickSync.

HTH

John EB

Hi John,

The video states the latest MEP version has been developed expressly for Intel Gen 7 cpus using the latest Intel 630 Graphics with Intel supplied developer tools and a single Intel API (application program interface). This appears to be a technology first for edit software which is why I am surprised the video is not on the Movie Edit Pro website.

I'm looking for more info on the performance claims of realtime 4k 360 editing and HEVC (h.265) 10 bit color on a Gen 7 (Kaby Lake) cpu simply because I'm planning to build one as I mentioned above.

As I said above - I also have an i5-4690 with Intel HD4600 Graphics and there are quality problems with that level of Quick Sync as explained in the Anandtech link I attached above.

Thanks for your feedback but I am specifically looking for:

1. An example of how MEP handles 4k 360 and 4k 10bit HEVC editing on the latest Intel Gen 7 Kaby Lake i7-7700k - from any users on the forum or from Magix who must have tested it.
2. More info on how it works and what codec they refer to in the video.

Thanks

Al

Hi Al

. . . . i5-4690 with Intel HD4600 Graphics and there are quality problems with that level of Quick Sync as explained in the Anandtech link I attached above . . . .

IMHO you need to investigate the cause of the quality issue in Movie Edit Pro before taking the leap to a new PC, you could end up with the same issue on the new PC.

Please give the following information:

1. Which program and version number are you experiencing the quality issue with
    
2. using MediaInfo, analyse a source video clip, post the results from the Tree view
    
3. the export settings you are using
    
4. MediaInfo analysis, as in 1, from an exported file showing the quality problem.

The Anandtech article refers specifically to issues with Handbrake and Quicksync - specifically the issue is

. . . QuickSync is usually pretty fast, but the choice of bitrates in Handbrake seem to force it into one of the new modes in Haswell which actually regressed in both performance and image quality. . . . .

This suggests the issue is with Handbrake is being forced into a mode that is giving poorer quality video.

John EB

Hi John,

We are at cross purposes. Let me try to explain:

1. There is NO problem with Quick Sync and MEP. The quality problem is in Quick Sync itself which is a hardware accelerated encoder for h.264. Handbrake was used in the example because, like MEP, it can use Quick Sync encoding. The results will be the same. It is not relevant to my thread topic and as I mentioned, quality is now better since newer Iris Graphics.
2. I want info on how MEP performs on a Gen 7 Kaby Lake CPU system as per the info in the Magix video in my first post.
3. Thanks for your reply.

Al

Hi all. Moderators have criticized me for repeating my posts so I'll try to resurrect this one from last Feb which has not yet been resolved..

Has anyone on the forum tested - or know of anyone who has tested or is using latest Movie Edit Pro with a Kaby Lake or Skylake CPU for 4k/UHD editing? I would like to know how it performs as per my original post at the top of this thread please.

If you know anyone who edits 4k video using other software on a Kaby Lake/ Skylake PC, they can also test it by downloading the 30 day trial.

I have tried MAGIX support but even they don't know if it works as claimed in the video.

If anyone from MAGIX happens to read this please help.

Any info will be appreciated as I'm planning to upgrade my PC now for 4k editing and will consider buying MAGIX if it works as claimed in the video from Intel above.

Thanks

Hi John

providing you are using the 'intermediate codec' mentioned in the video - I assume they mean proxy files which are a reduced resolution lightly compressed video format.

I thought the same thing when I first watched that clip but then thought, why is he talking about the H264 / H265 encode decode optimizations available with the 7th Gen Intels, and then using an old codec that will run smoothly on just about any processor?

I reviewed the clip several times, also in slow motion, and what I am convinced about is that he actually says "Intel Media codecs" not Intermediate codecs, reinforced by his next sentence in which he refers to " Inter (Intel) processors".

al-s

There is NO problem with Quick Sync and MEP. The quality problem is in Quick Sync itself which is a hardware accelerated encoder for h.264. Handbrake was used in the example because, like MEP, it can use Quick Sync encoding. The results will be the same.

I think you misunderstood the article and if any discussion about Quicksync is not relevant then I am not sure why you brought it up? The results will not "be the same" because there are a lot more (5) Speed / Quality choices and bitrate options in the export window in MEP, than there appear to be (poorly implemented) in Handbrake in 2013 when that article was written. You can be sure if there is only one setting available in Handbrake that it will not be "Best" but a compromise more in favour of speed than quality.

I have a 6700K i7 and have played a little with some 4K test clips in H264 and HEVC and I can say it handles it very well even at full 4K preview, although I am not shooting 4K so have done nothing involved. Encoding to H265 goes fairly swiftly with Quicksync and quality looks good.

As far as I know the main difference is Skylake 4K HEVC Main10 HW encoding only extends to 30fps whereas Kabylake goes to 60fps. You can be fairly sure the other improvements in the HW implementation mentioned will appear incremental in practice though.

If you can suggest some scenarios which you are envisaging for a 4K project, I could create a test and see what comes out.

Ss

Ss - Thanks for the feedback. My 4k is all 8bit. Most from GoPro and and DJI. DJI is now encoding in H.265 which is great because it has been shown to be better image quality and smaller file size than H.264.

You are correct - Skylake (SL) and Kaby Lake (KL) iGPUs are basically the same except that 7700K added some new and faster features for both H.264 (AVC) and H.265 (HEVC) including 10 bit color. HEVC Main10 decode on SL is "hybrid" but KL is faster hardware only. KL also has improved (quotes from my link above)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10959/intel-launches-7th-generation-kaby-lake-i7-7700k-i5-7600k-i3-7350k/6

"The new circuitry for hardware accelerating HEVC Main10 and VP9 are part of the MFX block. The MFX block can now handle 8b/10b HEVC and VP9 decode and 10b HEVC / 8b VP9 encode. The QuickSync block also gets a few updates to improve quality further, and AVC encode performance also receives a boost.

The Video Quality Engine also receives some tweaks for HDR and Wide Color Gamut (Rec.2020) support. 

Intel claims that Kaby Lake-U/Y can handle up to eight 4Kp30 AVC and HEVC decodes simultaneously. HEVC decode support is rated at 4Kp60 up to 120 Mbps (especially helpful for premium content playback and Ultra HD Blu-ray). With Kaby Lake-U/Y's process improvements, even the 4.5W TDP Y-series processors can handle real-time HEVC 4Kp30 encode."

Don't know if you have tried h.265 4k software encoding but it's painfully slow on other NLEs. Realtime encoding is a bonus.

Regarding Quicksync Video (QSV) - I was referring to the known encoding quality problems of the older 4600 iGPU which JEBaker misunderstood and thought I was referring to a MEP problem but it is a known Intel problem and not MAGIX. KL and SL QSV has improved quality and speed and now has two encode options for best speed or quality - Does MEP offer the choice for render? Are you happy with QSV render quality with your SL CPU?

The real challenge for H.264 4k editing in all other software is edit and playback of the timeline. GV Edius is the only other NLE I know of supporting h.265 now.

Your statement "I can say it handles it very well even at full 4K preview" is truly amazing!! - without using a low res proxy or transcoding to an intermediate codec.

I would greatly appreciate if you could try a couple of more things with your 4k test clips please. I assume you only have the SL iGPU and not an additional GPU card? How much memory? Overclocked?

First - how many 4k layers can it handle? Add a clip to the timeline and add an effect - like color correction. Add a second clip with color correction on a second layer as a picture-in-picture frame in the first clip. Test playback preview of the two layers. Can it playback even at HD preview.? If so add a third layer as a second PIP in the first clip. If you can handle 3 layers of 4k I'll be blown away :) I've seen Adobe Premiere Pro choke using an $1800 10 core i7 and an Nvidia 1080 TI GPU and another test using PremPro on professional $30k dual Xeon workstation with two Nvidia $5k GPU cards for 4kK editing.

Last (you may be sorry you offered to help) if you have a UHD monitor/TV take any of your 1080p projects and try to render out to UHD and compare it to the 1080p HD rendered version on a UHD screen. It's called "upscaling" and many claim improved picture quality.

Thanks - I really appreciate your help.

FYI -I planned to upgrade to an i7-7700k when Kaby Lake came out, then decided to wait until now when Intel announced new i9 series in response to Ryzen. Bad news is the new i9-7740K Kaby Lake is slightly faster but they have disabled the iGPU - so no GPU. Rumors now say wait for Coffee Lake which may have a 6 core CPU and Intel gen9 iGPU - same as the i7-7700K.

SS - Hi - If you don't have time for the tests I mentioned can you please check if it will playback smoothy with 2 or 3 layers of 4k clips (can be the same clip) with PIP. Thanks

Al

Sorry Al

I have done some work on this but would like to do more. I can confirm my rig will play 3x Streams with all Audio, no effects (although depending on the effect it makes little difference), at Full HD preview size, using 2 x HEVC 4k clips and 1x H264 4k clip. Adding another PinP maxes out the CPU and drops frames until you use the Blue Flash reduce resolution button.

I don't have a 4K monitor but I have tested at 4K preview but with it spreading over my 2 monitors (and more) and it will play 3x streams as above with the Blue Flash button enabled or 2 streams without. This is quite impressive but a little misleading in that both my GPU's are sharing the load as I have a different GPU feeding each monitor.

Ss

Thanks Ss - Sorry - didn't mean to rush you - impressive results so far. What is your preview resolution with Blue Flash? What is your other GPU card.

Thanks again for your help

Al

No problem Al.

Little hard to know as I have always thought that it halved the set resolution but I saw in a recent update to VPX that the Reduce Resolution in the preview has become "Intelligent" or Dynamic or words to that effect. This presumably means it varies it depending on the system load to maintain smooth preview and I believe this feature may now be in MEP as I think they share the same engine. Whatever during my tests I could not see any appreciable reduction at 4K on a relatively small computer display area.

I have the Intel iGPU and the Nvidia GPU both enabled and supplying the 2 separate monitors. See my Signature for system details.

Thanks Ss - New to this forum so didn't know about Signature info. I planned to go for an i7-770K, Asus Prime Z270-A, DDR4 3000, and the balance same as yours except I have an older Gigabyte G1 GTX 960 4GB. Delaying the upgrade until I'm confident it will handle 4K with MEP17. Otherwise I'll have to go with an i9 8 core and a GTX 1080 with other software which will be more expensive. Can't understand why Magix doesn't have a demo vid unless they are concerned it will outperform and compete with Vegas at a lower cost. Does MEP support two monitors (edit & playback)?

Hi

. . . .Does MEP support two monitors (edit & playback)? . . .

That depends on what you mean by 'edit' monitor?

MEP has only one playback monitor.

VPX has two monitors - a program monitor for timeline output in the project window and a source monitor for previewing files in the Media Pool or project temp folder.

John EB

Your GTX960 would do nicely in MEP2017 with 4K in my opinion. The KabyLake can only be an improvement on the Skylake if the info you have linked to is anything to go by - the question is only how much.

The preview monitor in MEP can be moved to a separate monitor leaving the other monitor for the timeline and media pool, if that is what you are asking.

Thanks Ss - That's what I meant. I'll go two 24" monitors on my new system.

Thanks JohnEB - I meant can MEP use a second monitor for preview/playback as Ss described above.

Hi

Thanks al-s - that is how I use my dual monitors.

Cheers

John EB