@browj2 transport controls in VPX14

The TTS interface in Vegas Pro

@Reyfox

Hi Tony,

Yes, if there is a simple way to have the tracks do a switcharoo, fine. Only Magix knows what it would take.

Thanks for the info. The pitch and speed tools are probably enough. Knowing what I indicated about the additional TTS tool in Azure, those who need more refinement can do it there.

@Former user

Just lost my text. Grrr.

I am assuming that the Travel Maps update was minor and not related to the release of VPX16.

Spiffy advert video for GE Studio and the two routes shown are quite amazing. Unfortunately, they aren't made in GE Studio. You have to create a kml/kmz file with the route and its attributes, and import that into GE Studio as an overlay. GE Studio only has an overlay opacity adjustment and opacity keyframing for the imported file. You can't create the ground route in GE Studio. I did a test using Google Earth. Labourious and the result was not great.

Here is the interface:

You can see my heavy red line on or just above the ground that is from the imported kml file. However, there are gaps in the line. I had to put the line several meters above ground just to get what you see.

The entire route that you see on the timeline the a flight path of the camera, like a drone.

In Travel Maps, you create the route, put in location text, images, head object (animated or not) that can be changed along the route, etc.

I loaded the same kml file into Travel Maps, used Satellite map. Here is the start up with no treatment, just default opening with the kml file.

Spiffy it up, use a bit of the 3D tools, and you see the route. However, you don't get the nice 3D buildings because TM is using ESRI maps, not Google, so I would probably just use default straight down look or a slight tilt.

TM has a feature that does a fly-in before starting the route. Here is a quick dirty route video using the same kml file but with some added features, including a fly-in:

Normally, I would create the route directly in Travel Maps unless it was a road or highway route, in which case I would use GE to get the route. For a walk where I captured the gps route myself, I would import that after massaging the points a bit.

John CB

@browj2  I don't think I'll bother looking then. Just like you I've had travel maps for yrs so I'm fairly familiar with it, but I don't really use it for that, I don't run or go on walks where I'd want to share that activity, & I don't use it in my vids because I don't want to share mine or my clients location.

But I do like Travel maps, @Reyfox I use it for putting an outline around something to highlight it, that is one fx I don't have in any of my plugins,

 I take a snapshot of whatever I want, for this vid I just took a screen shot of your comment, 3840x2160. I've also created a blank 3840x2160 png, I guess a black solid would.

Load the snapshot, do the route track thing, then choose the blank png from the Maps option, this replaces the background image but leaves the route animation overlay, export & chromakey the blue TM background in the video editor of your choice.

One important step is to make sure the screen isn't scaled, in this vid I constantly check the scale (bottom right) by zooming then double click to 0% scale it, I did it multiple times just to highlight it (you can do this at the end before export), if you don't it exports as seen on screen & won't match the orig snapshot.

@Former user

Excellent example of using TM for effects other than mapping, similar to mine on my YT site but you added the chromakey part. Do up several like this (rectangles and squares) and keep them in the toolkit for future use.

John CB

Do up several like this (rectangles and squares) and keep them in the toolkit for future use.

@browj2 Thanks, problem is every image you want to highlight is different, scaling these distorts the line, make it wider or taller & the line gets thinner or fatter. If you're comfortable enough with the program it doesn't take to long to make a new one that fits correct. I also tried it on a video where I tracked it onto the image, the camera didn't move much but it didn't look so good as it scaled n warped to fit the tracking.

I've enlarged the one I did in my vid, too much scale but I just want to show what I mean,

Wow. I see I have my work cut out for me! Thanks @Former user for the demo and thinking outside the "box" on this!

@Former user

Hi Gid

. . . . Travel maps,. . .  I use it for putting an outline around something to highlight it . . . .

Well thats a new use for TM. 👍

I do something similar with Blender, creating several sizes of the same effect as @browj2 suggested, however as you say 'scaling these distorts the line, make it wider or taller & the line gets thinner or fatter'.

John EB

@Former user @Reyfox

Here is the example that I did up showing using an animated line on an image that isn't a map.

And, if you like animated lines, then you'll love BluffTitler with Bixangelo, finished up in VPX.

The handwriting was created in Bixangelo, animated in BT and exported as transparent avi, then given chromakey to make the text show the image from another track. The map of Africa comes with the Ultimate travel pack for Travel Maps, and the audio done using some Soundpool loops from Music Maker. The photos are mine.

John CB

@browj2 Sorry I haven't seen that vid, my videos don't really require anything like that but yeah I've done sort of similar on a simpler scale, I remember at one time I added something like this (vid below) but to be honest after a days work when I'm editing my clips (which occasionally might be 3 x 20min vids in a wk) & I'm up till midnight or longer all i want to do is bang a bit of text on that I can easily adjust in the video editor if I need to, or I use GIMP which is quick to open or is almost always already open to create a static box with a leader or I'd just overlay a png arrow+text.,

My videos are intentionally very basic, no intro, no standing in front of the camera talking bollocks, no transitions, just a basic 12frame crossfade (I'm not keen on the 'instant' butt joint, a tiny fade is easier on my eye), no fx's apart from maybe a bit of colour or brightness adjustment (mocha for blurring stuff like my no' plate, Silhouette for hiding minor blemishes that the armchair critics who've 0 joinery skills would pick me up on), no paid placement which I have been offered once & I avoid adding anything that isn't related to the main concept of the vid, my vid titles are vague but the videos are 99.9% joinery -ishhh 😏. My subs have commented saying they like the basic approach with no added crap or pretention so I intend to keep them that way. 👍

@Former user

I should have been more clear, the focal point was to be the handwritten animated text, and I should have made it go slower. I will if I ever get around to doing the Africa videos (Super8 Sound + photos).

John CB

@browj2 

I get that, you created some hand written text & then traced it with the TM route tracker, then i could see it was used for compositing with the other images, one at least is coloured in some way, using the text as a mask. exactly what you did I wouldn't know without seeing the timeline but It wasn't hard to work out from the vid & your description.

Nice but It's a fairly easy technique, no need to make it more clear.

When i said 'Sorry I haven't seen that vid' i was ref to the YT vid meaning that I haven't watched it before but I did before I made that comment. my brief vid was about that first vid when the route is moving labelling things & the rest of my comment had nothing to do with the hand written text.

The only reason I am responding is because we have moved on from which methodology is better to how the Center-out (Hamburger) method would be implemented into VPX.

1: There is no change to the track numbering. You don't have to reverse the numbers or anything. Leave this piece of code alone.

2: Don't touch any code regarding audio; Sound clips mix together regardless where the are placed (no hierarchy).

3: The only code that needs to be changed/added is the video/photo hierarchy. The programming logic just needs to be reversed. Please understand, its not the actual track number that is important; it is the relative position between two or more objects that is taken into consideration. This change in logic would be a changable default program setting.  

4: If you have "Center-out" enabled in program settings and you import a project that was previously created Top-down, this is not an issue because the project itself will have a "orientation tag" as to which orientation was enabled when the project was created. For projects created before this version and do not have the orientation tag, they would naturally default to Top-down and would continue to be edited Top-down unless a "conversion switch" was made available.

5: Long term users have become accostom to opening up VPX, creating a new project and start droping objects onto the timeline. These objects naturally fall onto Track 1. Track 1 is the default track even though it is not highlighted. One could easily highlight Track 2 and start dropping objects onto the timeline and in this case they will land on Track 2. This is how Pinnacle Studio works. Its default track is Track 2. So all objects moved to the timeline land on Track 2 unless the user specifies another track. Track 1 is used for Titles and/or overlays etc. And of course you can add tacks above these tracks. So in addition to the Center-out program setting, it would be nice if the system allowed the user to specify the "Default Track". Top-down users will always select Track 1 while Center-out users may select another track. Personally I would select Track 3 as my default. This gives me two overlay tacks and since I like my audio split; video will be on Track 3 and audio on Track 4. Importing music from an external source lands on Track 5. This seems to be the current convention with VPX. I'm not sure why Magix coded Track 5 this way but it works in this case.

Finally, using the spreadsheet analogy to emphasize an important point. If I create a Yearly Expense Report on a spreadsheet; I don't worry about rows and columns. More important are labels. When explaining my spreadsheet to others, I don't say, "Row A15 represents Travel expenses." I label cell A15 as "Travel Expense". Likewise I don't say; "Column D1 represents the expense year of 2023". I label cell  D1 as "2023". Only with lables do other people understand my spreadsheet. Likewise with video editing; we should label our tracks. I admit, I'm a bit lazy but if I work on a huge project, sharing with others, I will label the tracks. Hence the track number itself, doesn't really mean anything; just like a spreadsheet cell reference - its the label attached to it. 

Regarding the implementation of this methodology into VPX, if anyone has any questions regarding the above, comments or I missed something, I'm happy to discuss. Personally I would like to flesh this out further and once all bases are covered, send this enhancement suggestion to Magix Support for consideration for a future VPX release.

@browj2

I should have been more clear

Could you be a bit more patronising!

This took me maybe 20mins inc the time it took to steal a written drawing of the net, (how you made your writing is unimportant), it needs refining & I could've made a separate mask for crossing the T but I didn't.

Like I say nice but a very simple technique.

@Former user

Hi,

Could you be a bit more patronising!

Sorry, that was not at all my intention at all. I read what you wrote, then I looked at what I wrote, and realized that I had not been clear at all, even to me, as to what I intended to focus on - the handwriting. I got lost in the details.

It was not made by masking. I used Bixangelo which creates an eps file of whatever one traces. The typical examples that OuterSpace Software are handwriting - Sketch (handwriting), and roller coasters.

The eps file is then opened in BluffTitler and then exposed over time using the Writer parameter. You can see more on this page. It can be as simple as my handwriting or as complicated as the roller coaster (or probably more) that you see in examples on the web page.

I mentioned this because it is an option to make things, like your highlighting rectangle, etc., that can be used in VPX. It is faster and more powerful than doing it in Travel Maps - once you know how. Keep the project file for quickly getting other variations. The output would be avi with transparency, ready to be imported into MMS/VPX without having to apply chromakey.

Here is an example of animated lines/shapes. These are eps files that I just imported into BT, gave them size and colour parameters and the Writer keyframes - 0 to 1.

Want a different one, create it or modify one using Bixangelo.

Here are the ones that come stock with the program:

I have many more that came with Bixpacks.

Here is another example. The arm/hand is mine. Hmmm, I'm left-handed but I used my right hand.

You are still faced with the resizing and stretching problem in VPX, but you can fairly quickly modify and save a new eps file to use.

Here is the UI of Bixangelo for the handwriting. You can see the control points for adjusting the "route."

OuterSpace software likes to bill itself as the poor man's After Effects...and much quicker.

@Can-Dive

After reflection, it could probably be simple to implement. I think that Magix must use the track numbers for part of the location indicator, along with the object path/filename, start point on the timeline, start point of the file (it could be trimmed), duration and any effects, etc. Thus, track numbering would be key.

In this case, it would just be a case of inverting the interface and working from the bottom, from track 1, upwards. It wouldn't matter which way the user did it, because the track numbers of the objects would not change, just the presentation.

The only problem that I could foresee would be using the templates. As far as I can tell, they don't come with track number per se, but relative track numbers. The user can determine the starting track. So long as the coding of the template detects the starting track, uses that and increments the track numbers for any other objects associated with it, then it could work.

I think that you are trying to complicate it by making it look like other software. Remember, MMS/VPX just gives you a bunch of tracks, minimum of 4. So long as the user using a bottom up interface understands which track protocol being used, then just start with the background on track 1, the one at the bottom of the screen.

I can't say I like the idea as it would add a complication for many users, including instructing new users as the how it works and the 2 options. If someone inadvertently reversed the track interface, Magix and the forum would be hearing about it no end.

Only Magix would know if it's feasible. We are just speculating.

John CB

It appears "Gid" is now a "Former User". What is going on?

@ericlnz

Hi

The same question is being asked in another topic and i see he is gone from the Vegas forum too.

At this moment we have no idea on why Gids account has changed to former user.

John EB

Hi.
Again about the track arrangement in the timeline.
My idea is that the timeline has two separate areas. The upper area would contain the video tracks, the lower area then logically the audio area. The tracks are numbered consecutively and start from the area separation with #1, 2, 3... The dividing line should be able to be moved up or down with the mouse so that I can enlarge the timeline work area for video or audio. I'm attaching my sketch. Just my two cents.

@HJWolters

Hi

I do believe there has been a video editor that worked as shown in your image above, however the idea never caught on.

All main stream video editors work on the principle that audio associated with the video clip is displayed directly under, and is grouped with the video.

The Magix video editors have 2 forms of display the compact video/audio on single track, and the more common video/audio on separate tracks as shown below, Vegas Pro and all of the video editors I have used are similar.

John EB

@johnebaker

Hi.
I bring here a timeline example from the NLE of a third-party manufacturer. It illustrates extremely clearly what and how I understand it. We see the two areas video and audio separated by a red line. This line can be touched with the mouse and moved up or down to enlarge the video or audio area. In addition, each area has a scroll bar on the right side to move the tracks in the area. The overlay track is always above the background track.
The current system is definitely OK. But the two-area system also has its right to exist, as I see it. This is particularly noticeable when many traces could be filled with assets. But as already mentioned, both systems can live side by side through switches.
I hope my two cents are more understandable this way.

Here we go again.

@HJWolters

One of the great things about MMS/VPX is that one can put anything on any track. I want my audio with my video, not somewhere else. What you are showing would destroy a good thing. Just because another nle shows this way doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Please do not propose changing MMS/VPX into another program just because they do it that way.

@ericlnz @Can-Dive

You ignore track numbers in Vegas. I would suggest that you do so because the numbering does not make sense with the bottom up approach and numbering from the top down. It is what it is and you have never questioned it. In our everyday lives, we number from the top down. We work from the top down, left to right. I used the spreadsheet example because the timeline is essentially a spreadsheet. Despite what Gid said, one would naturally start at the top and not the bottom.

You are used to this approach and you think in terms of building upwards because that is the way that you visualize placing objects. MMS/VPX has tracks showing that can be simply used. Vegas and other nle's work differently and that is fine for them. For you, working the way that MMS/VPX does is a paradigm shift. I have described ways for users to understand how to use the top down method - track number - 1 is the lowest and anything on it goes to the back, or what you like to think of as the bottom. It is simple to remember.

If you were a new user and faced with the following screen, where would you start, the top or the bottom?

For those used to another nle, you would ask why there were so many tracks. That is the way it works and if you actually worked with it for a while, you would understand why this works well.

The building analogy - build from the bottom up. In that case, a Vegas building would show floor 1 at the top, floor 10 at the bottom. Track numbers are important.

Next, we use the Mixer. The mixer shows track numbers, obviously linked to the timeline track number. The mixer works left to right. The audio for the background, which anyone who used a DAW, like Samplitude, would expect to be on the first strip - track 1 or 2. Because one can put anything on any track, all track numbers show up, even if nothing is on the track.

Look at how Vegas handles tracks in the Mixer. Left to right.

So, any inverted representation of the UI would have to accommodate the Mixer and probably some other aspects. But please, do not try to complicate the way the tracks work.

John CB

Here we go again.

@HJWolters

One of the great things about MMS/VPX is that one can put anything on any track. I want my audio with my video, not somewhere else. What you are showing would destroy a good thing. Just because another nle shows this way doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Please do not propose changing MMS/VPX into another program just because they do it that way.

(...)

John CB

I respect your point of view on the track arrangement. That's why I suggest: switchable! And yes, supporting my suggestion is based on many years of experience with this application. But your stubbornness is a little strange. No left, no right.
And yes, do you decide the end of a topic?

@HJWolters

supporting my suggestion is based on many years of experience with this application.

Why then have you persisted with it if you don't like the track layout? Magix does have some handy features, but the track layout and operation is the killer feature as far as I am concerned. It also doesn't easily do a things that can be done in other editors eg proper subtitles. In a fit of frustration years ago I had a crack at Vegas Movie Studio. The track layout just didn't make any sense to me so I came back. Magix = simplicity. I looked ta your track layout of XXX and I immediately had my eyes going up and down between the video tracks and the audio tracks. Just keep them V+A together to keep it simple.

In any case, I think you've got very little chance of getting this implemented. There would be too much work involved. We have enough trouble getting bugs fixed to have the programmers basically turn the program on it's head.