Update waveform

Johan_Hackman wrote on 12/21/2024, 3:07 PM

Here is my first real question regarding VPX.

I am working with music videos where certain things are performed live. I need to synchronize the video with the audio file that I export from my DAW so that there is perfect lip sync. I do that by clapping my hands which makes a visible peak in the waveform both on the video and the file from my DAW. For each time I add a video clip (could be that I want a different take on the second verse of the song) I render a new audio file with the same name as the one before and replace the old one with a new one in the VPX project folder. The new clap shows up on the waveform and the new video is easily aligned. This worked well in Movie Studio Platinum that I have used before but in VPX the waveform does not change from the first time.

In VPX the waveform is the same no matter if I replace the audio file with another. It seems to link the waveform to the file name and not the audio itself and thus ruining my previously so good workflow.

So my question is - is there a way to update the waveform?

Johan

Comments

AAProds wrote on 12/21/2024, 5:08 PM

@Johan_Hackman

Johan, with the program closed, try deleting the HO and HDP files associated with your file (they are in the same folder, same name). They will be recreated when you re-open your project and I expect that the waveform for the "new"/replaced file will be displayed.

All my forum comments are based on or refer to my System 1.

My struggle is over! I built my (now) system 2 in 2011 when DV was king and MPEG 2 was just coming onto the scene and I needed a more powerful system to cope. Since then we've advanced to MP4 and to bigger and bigger resolutions. I was really suffering, not so much in editing (with proxies) but in encoding, which just took ages. A video, with Neat Video noise reduction applied, would encode at 12% of film speed. My new system 1 does the same job at 160% of film speed. Marvellous. I'm keeping my old system as a capture station for analogue video tapes and DV.

System 1

Windows 11 v23H2 severely modified by Openshell and ExplorerPatcher

Power supply: 850W Cooler Master (should have got modular)

CPU: Intel i7 13700K running at 3400mhz, cooled by a Kraken 2x140mm All In One liquid cooler.

RAM: 64gb (2x32gb sticks) G.Skill "Ripjaws" DDR4 3200Mhz

GPU 1: iGPU UHD 770

GPU 2: NVidia RTX 3060Ti Windforce 8gb

C drive: NVME 500gb

Bluray Burner: Pioneer BDR-212D

Various other SSD and HDDs.

Monitor: 27"/68cm Samsung, 2560 x 1440, 43 pixels/cm.

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

Magix Video Easy version 7.0.1.145

System 2

(Still in use for TV and videotape capture)

Windows 10 v22H2

CPU: i5-750 at 2670mhz with 12gb RAM

Onboard IEEE1394 (Firewire) port

GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4770 (512mb) which is ignored by MEP

Hard drives: C Drive 256gb SSD, various other HDDs.

Monitor: Dell 22"/56cm, 1680x1050, 35 pixels/cm

MEP 2021 version 20.0.1.80

Movie Studio 2023 version 22.0.3.172

VPX 12

Johan_Hackman wrote on 12/21/2024, 5:35 PM

Thanks for your reply! I have already tried that but to no avail.

I however found another workaround. By right-clicking an choosing "edit wave externally" the Music Editor opens and without doing anything in the editor, just closing it updates the waveform. Weird!

Johan

CubeAce wrote on 12/21/2024, 7:09 PM

@Johan_Hackman

Sorry for being off topic but just followed your link to your website and subsequent YouTube channel.

You are truly talented and your production values are extremely high. I'm blown away by the quality of your HD content and you have gained one additional subscriber. It's great to hear 'real' music played well. I can see why audio sync would be extremely important to you.

I hope your future video editing is easier going.

Ray.

 

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Gid wrote on 12/22/2024, 1:22 AM

@Johan_Hackman Hi, there's an option to clear the cache, I don't know if this will help or not.

Magix Movie Studio 2025
Magix VPX14
Vegas Pro 22

Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, 
Boris Optics,
NewBlue TotalFX
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans
Dell SE3223Q 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840x2160) Monitor, 60Hz, & an Acer 24" monitor.

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G & a GoPro11

I've been a Joiner/Carpenter for 40yrs, apprentice trained time served, I don't have an apprentice of my own so to share my knowledge I put videos on YouTube.

YouTube videos - https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

Lots of work photos on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/gid.joiner/photos_albums

 

Johan_Hackman wrote on 12/22/2024, 1:00 PM

@Johan_Hackman

Sorry for being off topic but just followed your link to your website and subsequent YouTube channel.

You are truly talented and your production values are extremely high. I'm blown away by the quality of your HD content and you have gained one additional subscriber. It's great to hear 'real' music played well. I can see why audio sync would be extremely important to you.

I hope your future video editing is easier going.

Ray.

 

Ray, you make me blush! 😬

I am really honoured to know that you like my music and that you have taken the time to check out what I do.

When I make a music video I am always making sure that some of the footage shows a live performance even if I have my hands full already as I usually play all instruments myself in my one-man-band. I want the viewer to see me sing rather than watching me mime. And this makes the filming process and the editing afterwards a bit more complicated.

Thanks!

Johan

Johan_Hackman wrote on 12/22/2024, 1:02 PM

@Johan_Hackman Hi, there's an option to clear the cache, I don't know if this will help or not.

I did not know about this option! I tried it but it didn't change the situation. I went back to editing today and found that my workaround is a quick one so it is not such a big deal after all. But maybe something Magix would like to look into?

Johan

CubeAce wrote on 12/22/2024, 4:06 PM

@Johan_Hackman

Hi.

Sorry about the blushing 🤣.

I am not completely sure whether you are replacing or adding files to the project to cause this problem.

Normally if I am adding files I add a v2 or v3 etc to the end of the file name. Only when I want to replace a file to be in exactly the same position as the old one would I use the old file name and remove the old one. Then as Al stated earlier, the old HDP files need to be removed first before firing up the program again. The H0 files are for the video tracks.

Is the old file deleted from the system or removed from the folder when the new file replaces it?

If you have proxy files enabled, they too may have to be removed and recreated as it's the audio portion that has the word Proxy on them.

You could also try making the new file slightly longer or shorter and then trim it to see if that makes a difference.

Ray.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Johan_Hackman wrote on 12/22/2024, 4:39 PM

I'll try to explain my workflow.

The main file in my project is the audio file exported from my DAW. There is no file that is nearly as important. You won't believe how many times I update it before I am finished! Every time I decide to add a few more guitars or background vocals, or add a little more reverb to the snare or.. you get it. So each time I just render a file called "Mixdown" that I put in the VPX folder to overwrite the one currently being there, which means that each time I open the VPX the audio file will be different. So yes, it is replacing that file that is causing the problem - not adding any files.

The problem is the waveform not updating which only causes a problem when using a clap to sync audio with video. You cannot do that visually, unless you use the workaround I found.

To make this clear to myself I recorded an audio clip where I clapped my hands at 3s. Importing that into VPX shows a peak in the waveform at 3s and an audible clap at 3s. I then closed VPX and recorded a new audio clip where I waited 6s to clap my hands. I then rendered an audio file that I gave the same name to replace the previous one in the VPX folder.

When playing back, the peak in the waveform was still at 3s but the clap audible at 6s. The waveform and the audio did not match. When opening the external audio editor the same happened - a peak at 3s but a clap at 6s. No match. By closing the editor the peak moved to 6s to match the audio and when the editor was opened after that the waveform had changed there as well. So this simple exercise made the peak in the waveform and the audio match.

I don't want to take up you guys' time with this. I think it is a small glitch but nothing to worry about. I have found a way around it that works.

Johan

CubeAce wrote on 12/23/2024, 2:11 AM

@Johan_Hackman

Hi Johan.

If you mean adjusting or changing a mix-down I totally get it. Although I'm not a musician I do like to play around with composing but use samples or vsts in a daw. My latest project I have remixed at least 15 times to date. Probably more.

What I would do in this instance, assuming you are putting your audio on a separate track, is to mute the original track. Then use the + button on that audio track to add an additional track above it. That should push your audio track to track three.

Import the new track adding a suffix to it as I described earlier. So call it 'Mixdown 2' or 'Take 2'. It's essential to give it a different name.

Repeat as needed.

Having the additional tracks muted will not load the project more from a resource point of view and when eventually you are happy you can delete all the unused tracks.

I think that should give you your new waveforms on all added tracks.

I should add my workflow is not the same as your own when doing a music video and the above video is used as an example only. I do use that workflow on other types of projects though.

Ray.

Last changed by CubeAce on 12/23/2024, 2:20 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise. Version 22H2 OS build 19045.5011

Direct X 12.1 latest hardware updates for Western Digital hard drives.

Asus ROG STRIX Z390-F Gaming motherboard Rev 1.xx with Supreme FX inboard audio using the S1220A code. Driver No 6.0.8960.1 Bios version 1401

Intel i9900K Coffee Lake 3.6 to 5.1GHz CPU with Intel UHD 630 Graphics .Driver version Graphics Driver 31.0.101.2130 for 7th-10th Gen Intel® with 64GB of 3200MHz Corsair DDR4 ram.

1000 watt EVGA modular power supply.

1 x 250GB Evo 970 NVMe: drive for C: drive backup 1 x 1TB Sabrent NVMe drive for Operating System / Programs only. 1X WD BLACK 1TB internal SATA 7,200rpm hard drives.1 for internal projects, 1 for Library clips/sounds/music/stills./backup of working projects. 1x500GB SSD current project only drive, 2x WD RED 2TB drives for latest footage storage. Total 21TB of 8 external WD drives for backup.

ASUS NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB. nVidia Studio driver version 560.81 - 3584xCUDA cores Direct X 12.1. Memory interface 192bit Memory bandwidth 360.05GB/s 12GB of dedicated GDDR6 video memory, shared system memory 16307MB PCi Express x8 Gen3. Two Samsung 27" LED SA350 monitors with 5000000:1 contrast ratios at 60Hz.

Running MMS 2024 Suite v 23.0.1.182 (UDP3) and VPX 14 - v20.0.3.180 (UDP3)

M Audio Axiom AIR Mini MIDI keyboard Ver 5.10.0.3507

VXP 14, MMS 2024 Suite, Vegas Studio 16, Vegas Pro 18, Cubase 4. CS6, NX Studio, Mixcraft 9 Recording Studio. Mixcraft Pro 10 Studio.

Audio System 5 x matched bi-wired 150 watt Tannoy Reveal speakers plus one Tannoy 15" 250 watt sub with 5.1 class A amplifier. Tuned to room with Tannoy audio application.

Ram Acoustic Studio speakers amplified by NAD amplifier.

Rogers LS7 speakers run from Cambridge Audio P50 amplifier

Schrodinger's Backup. "The condition of any backup is unknown until a restore is attempted."

Gid wrote on 12/23/2024, 4:22 AM

@Johan_Hackman Hi, I just wrote a long msg about workflows & how trying to swap files with the same name is not a good idea, as you've found it messes with the program but it's also bad housekeeping, burning your bridges so to spk. I wrote a lot more but basically change your workflow.

Solution - give your new files a different name or a different suffix then VPX will update as expected.

 

Magix Movie Studio 2025
Magix VPX14
Vegas Pro 22

Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
Silhouette Standalone + Plugin, 
Mocha Pro Standalone + Plugin, 
Boris Optics,
NewBlue TotalFX
Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans
Dell SE3223Q 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840x2160) Monitor, 60Hz, & an Acer 24" monitor.

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 5G & a GoPro11

I've been a Joiner/Carpenter for 40yrs, apprentice trained time served, I don't have an apprentice of my own so to share my knowledge I put videos on YouTube.

YouTube videos - https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

Lots of work photos on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/gid.joiner/photos_albums