@Former user
I'm also saying there's no point in re-exporting at all. The only thing that matters in this case is the ratio. Exporting at 1366/4 won't change how the video looks on either screen.
@AAProds Yep, i was just trying to answer his question about the settings changing it to 1364 not 1366 as he was trying to input, think we both agree that the 2 pixel difference doesn't make much difference.
@Former user
I'm also saying there's no point in re-exporting at all. The only thing that matters in this case is the ratio. Exporting at 1366/4 won't change how the video looks on either screen.
So you mean it will look the same whether you encode it in 1366x768 or 1920x1080?
The other thing I wanted to ask is does it matter what resolution I’m feeding to the TV? Because at the moment my Blu-ray Player is feeding a 1080p resolution to the 1366x768p TV.
@Former user @AAProds
Hi Gid,
I have just tried out what you told me to do with the project & export settings, but instead of 1366x768 it still keeps changing it to 1364x768. Even with the Aspect Ratio set to 1.778646.
@Former user @AAProds
Sorry, ignore my last comment, it did let me export at 1366.
Going back to bitrates again, if you encode the video in the exact same bitrate as what the original is in, will the quality then be the same? Or do you have to use a higher bitrate than the original to get it to keep the same quality?
Hi Jak.
Going back to bitrates again, if you encode the video in the exact same bitrate as what the original is in, will the quality then be the same? Or do you have to use a higher bitrate than the original to get it to keep the same quality?
You have raised that subject before in the past. Each re-encoding of any visual or audio data will result in an amount of degradation of quality as re-encoding means just that if using a 'lossy' codec.
[Edit]. Normally this quality loss is in the areas of colour representation where blocks of neighboring colour can get merged into a close approximate colour or a reduction of sharpness of finer detail.
Ray.
So you mean it will look the same whether you encode it in 1366x768 or 1920x1080?
Basically, Yes. The 1920x1080 file will look a bit better IMO.
The other thing I wanted to ask is does it matter what resolution I’m feeding to the TV? Because at the moment my Blu-ray Player is feeding a 1080p resolution to the 1366x768p TV.
Basically, No. My same comment applies; 1920x1080 will probably look a bit better. And you don't have to do a separate encode at 1366x768; just use/view the 1920x1080 version of the movie.
Going back to bitrates again, if you encode the video in the exact same bitrate as what the original is in, will the quality then be the same? Or do you have to use a higher bitrate than the original to get it to keep the same quality?
In this case, I'd say No, because your original file is such bad quality. You'll need to increase the bitrate to try to maintain the quality. As I said before, try 6000kbps Average, 8000kbps maximum, and see how it looks.
You need to get your hands dirty. Export a 5 minute range at 6k/8k, 1920x1080 and see how it looks.
or a reduction of sharpness of finer detail.
Hi Ray,
Yes, I see what you mean. And I guess if you add a bit of sharpness to the video before encoding, as has been suggested to me by quite a few of you in the past, then that should help to compensate for the loss of sharpness that would normally occur?
Hi Jak.
Personally that would not be a route I would follow as sharpening a file with little information to begin with starts to also introduce random noise into footage. You just cannot add what is not there without something like an AI program designed to enhance the image. Even then results can be varied and sometimes vary within the same clip. The programs you are recording from the channels you have quoted all seem to be owned by the BBC which would have already as a matter of course enhanced those programs as far as they could ready for transmission.
One question.
What are you using to capture the footage to begin with? If it is MEP (MMS) then in my opinion that is not the best screen recorder to use. It is very soft in its recordings. Much better to use another program. Personally I would use OBS studio which when set up properly will give a recording back identical to what you see on your screen at the time when watching the program online. I say set up properly because if you get it wrong MSS (MEP) will have problems with editing the files. Set up properly and the files are quite light on system resources in my experience. (although I don't use OBS for that purpose).
Another tip would be to go to the channels websites directly and create free user accounts there rather than go through something like the Sky or Virgin Go online applications because the feed directly from a channels own website is normally much cleaner and 'broadcast' at a much higher streaming bit rate.
Then you may not have to go through all of these 'restoration' stages.
Ray.
Ray, from a post on page 1: "This is the video on my TV & Panasonic Recorder."
I don't agree with you about screen captures (not that that is relevant here). OBS is nightmare to set up. Magix isn't "soft" if you use a decent capture quality. In fact, the only reason I don't use Magix for all my screen captures is the confounding audio setup.
Hello again Ray,
I am recording these TV programmes on my Panasonic Recorder. It basically records Freeview broadcasts and saves them to the built-in Hard Disk Drive.
The channel that this show is being broadcast on is called ‘Drama’ which belongs to the UKTV group. Although this particular TV show does actually belong to the BBC but the series is being re-run on UKTV at a resolution of 544x576, which I’m guessing is not quite as high as what the BBC would have originally broadcast them in. But watching it on UKTV Drama channel with it upscaling to fit the TV screen, makes the programme look soft and fuzzy. Whereas watching it without it being upscsled makes it look much sharper and how it is meant to look.
Hi Al.
I agree the sound issue is a bit off-putting in use but also OBS just gives me a cleaner output for a smaller file size. Also the file can be used in anything. With MEP you are stuck with the file only being of use in MEP or VPX. At a quality setting I find equivalent quality I get from OBS, the exported video from MEP has actually stuttered. I have no idea how that happens as the file plays OK in the program.
One other problem is with using more than one monitor is I only seem to be able to record the output from one monitor and not the other.
Hi Jak.
UK TV Drama is owned by BBC Studios, the commercial arm of the BBC, hence their content on the channel.
I can't vouch for what ITV does with it's programs but I suspect similar treatment of their content would be perfromed.
I assume you have no control over the video quality recorded from the Panasonic?
Have you tried recording from the PC via the internet? Out of curiosity I logged into UK TV Play to see what it was like.
Then I found a series I know would be quite old to see what the program looked like online.
I think it probably would look better as a terrestrial broadcast on a TV but would a screen recording from the PC give you more quality options than your Panasonic for post production? Would the result then be better when up-scaled by your TV or disc player? I don't know.
Ray.
I assume you have no control over the video quality recorded from the Panasonic?
Yes, there are different recording options on my Panasonic recorder but I always record in DR mode which gives an exact recording of the broadcast. And then from there you can have the machine compress them if you wish.
I didn’t realise that UKTV was owned by the BBC.
I have tried screen capturing it on UKTV Play in the past but found that the resulting recording was always juddery/un-smooth, and also time consuming when there are hundreds of episodes to record. Whereas on my Panasonic Recorder I’ve got it on series link so that it automatically records the show every day.
Hi Jak.
I thought it was worth mentioning just in case.
The problem is that when we used TVs that had CRTs instead of Back Lit LED panels or similar, the actual phosphorous site that was struck on the screen in the vacuum tube to produce light was at least four times the current size of an older LCD panels pixel. This means there was detail visible then that will never be visible now unless you have the tape and an analog TV to watch it on. Even going from an analog tape recording to a digital recording will make the problem worse. What hasn't already been digitally remastered professionally will probably never be as good again as each play of an analog tape will leave behind some of the magnetic information on the tape heads and guides. The magnetic strength on the tape will fade and while there are professional methods of getting new direct copies such as direct heat transfer which gives an almost identical analog copy of a tape to a new tape, the damage is already done. Video tape was always expensive and the idea of repeats hadn't really taken off so many a master tape was recorded over, hence many early missing episodes of things like Dr Who. Some TV crews used 16mm film instead which fared better and the masters survived more often.
So a lot of the early stuff recorded to tape will never really be as good now as it was back then to view.
Even stuff I recorded on my bridge camera in 2008 now looks awful as we went from CRT SVGA monitors to LED HD.
I can only guess what such content will look like in another 10 years.
BBC Studios own Dave, Gold, W, Drama, Alibi, Eden and Yesterday as well as another 10 BBC only TV channels.
They have commercial interests in over another 120 countries. The BBC is not poor despite their protestations to the contrary and have a lot of leading edge tech they themselves develop alongside other professional methods. They already remaster video for other broadcasters. Archiving is big business.
Ray.
@CubeAce @AAProds @Former user
Thanks for that good explanation, Ray.
Yes, I did have an old CRT TV but I threw it out years ago because I didn’t think that I’d need it again. Typical.
If you were to use an analogue connection (RGB, component, etc,) would that help at all? Would it somehow prevent the machine and TV from upscaling the image?
Hi Jack.
Yes, I did have an old CRT TV but I threw it out years ago because I didn’t think that I’d need it again. Typical.
Didn't we all 🤣
The nearest thing you could do in the digital domain is find an old larger SVGA Tube monitor Like the old Sony ones and use that as their pixel sizes where roughly the same (Same Tech) but Gamers have cottoned on to that and have pushed the second had prices of such large screen monitors through the roof in the past year (A good 28 " Sony monitor can go for as much as £600 for the right model) as they try to get the fidelity back into early game releases such as Sonic and Street Fighter. Or an old analog TV adapter box to digital to plug into an old CRT TV but whether the drivers would work on a modern operating system or not I'm not sure. I saw several variations on the theme at the last Medway Games Festival I went to in May but they were coupled to old computers.
I find out about these trends and why they happen by talking to the people at such events while I record the events in photos for the organisers websites for their next festival.
I don't know of any way of doing that as well in the purely digital domain.
I've been trying out Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI demo but apart from it needs quite a powerful computer to work at its best, the render times are horrendous (A TV program could take days to render) but so far I've not been overly impressed, but then I may not be trying the right material as I had a different use in mind.
Ray.