NVIDIA 4070 issues on most basic video editing work

MME007 wrote on 2/11/2024, 6:02 AM

Using a new high end system I'm facing crazy bad results on basic video editing.

System: Intel i7 14th gen with GPU, 48 Gb RAM, 3x SSD WD SN850x , GPU ASUS NVIDIA 4070 ProArt 12Gb, monitor at 50 fps (100 Hz native).

Video PRO X15. All drivers and software to the latest version, NVIDIA gamer drivers.

Starting point:

- Simple HD video from my camera taken in 25fps

- Under Magix, my film is set at HD resolution, but 50 fps

- Import one of my video, without adding any effect, just nothing.

I can directly and correctly play my video and I can export it without issue. Here the first 10 seconds:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xK4gd5zh_5CKWCsNP21nRu7ohh4Jd6Tn/view?usp=sharing

I further build my video mostly around still images with some pans and zooms, not touching the video part. When I go back to that video it isn't displayed correctly anymore... If I export that video part, the problems are exported together:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aJywnx8wONH0WAiD0Gj-cKSLMIs77soJ/view?usp=sharing

This is just an example, from far not the worst I already got !!!

Searching on my own to solve the issue, I found some workarounds to fall back on the original video:

Workaround 1:

- In the program parameters, I switch to the CPU or UHD770 (i7 GPU). The video is directly correctly displayed and remains correct even as I further work on the other parts of my video. With this setting, the animations I gave to my still images are not correctly displayed anymore.

- If I switch back to the NVIDIA 4070. The video part is back correctly displayed (at the condition it was at least fully read with another hardware) but will be degraded as I continue to work on the rest of my video.

Workaround 2:

- Close the program

- Delete the Magix additional files ".H0" and ".HDP"

- Reopen, the video is displayed correctly... just for some time...

Workaround 3:

- Disable the effects from the editor

- I have some effects on my still images... those aren't displayed anymore...

- I didn't deeply tested this workaround but at first glance, it seems to work.

None of those workarounds is acceptable !!!

Please help me identifying the root cause ! It is not acceptable for me to continuously switch between UHD770 and NVIDIA 4070 just to watch other the video sections other the animated images sections of my work ! (I didn't try to export the entire video mixing video and still images.)

I already tested the following without result:

- Closing the program, closing the computer, reopen all ==> no change

- The two sets of NVIDIA drivers, no change. Even after a recent driver update.

- Setting all at 25 fps ==> no change The fps has clearly no impact here.

- Disabled the UHD 770 from the BIOS ==> no change

Thanks for your help !

Regards

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Comments

CubeAce wrote on 2/16/2024, 3:27 PM

@MME007

Hi Marc.

Just because the cameras are older than newer models doesn't make them worse. Sony sensors have always been among the best around. My Nikon cameras have Sony sensors in them. Not designed by Sony but manufactured by them. Just because these types of cameras do well on their auto settings doesn't mean more can't be got out of them once you learn more about the various controls and settings and how to apply them.

The cameras 50p ans 60p AVCHD recording should give the best quality imagery at 28Mbps. Pages 112 to 115 are good places to get more information from the manual regarding shooting options.

I say this because the frames per second are not the same as the exposure times for each frame. The brighter the scene the shorter the exposure time is for each frame leaving a blank amount of time before the next frame is recorded. That can make for some jerkiness between frames when faster in frame movement is happening and can lead to you seeing multiple instances of the same object like a drum stick moving at speed. So increasing the exposure time of each frame helps to allow some slight amount of motion within each frame taken and the overall look of the video becomes smoother. By varying the triangle of settings (ISO, Shutter speed, and Aperture) you can control the exposure time and depth of field better. Normally increasing one setting like the exposure time will mean having to decrease one of the other two or both the other two by half the amount to prevent over exposure for a given situation. This may be counter intuitive to taking still shots where more often you want at least the main item to be in sharp focus with little motion blur.

Ray.

MME007 wrote on 2/17/2024, 3:27 AM

@johnebaker @CubeAce

Thanks for your comments

I just switched my three camera bodies to AVCHD 50p instead of 50i.

As I bought my first body of this type, I remember that I wanted to burn some Blue-Ray and my television was still a Cathode Ray Tube! I replaced it twice in between.. Up to now, I was editing in 25fps. I just recently changed to 50fps thanks to you...

Record setting: Honestly, I was forgotten about the manual setting for filming of my bodies. I did regularly switch off the auto-focus to record shows (I did it a lot) in limited light conditions using good lenses. Playing now with the manual mode I realised than I can switch in just one click between the auto mode using the auto-focus to the manual mode using the last manual setting. This happens as I switch back the auto-focus on as the recording mode is set to manual. This latter switches to auto as the auto-focus is enabled. It returns to manual as the auto-focus is disabled. This is very convenient to automatically adjust the focus and further record in manual mode with the last used setting. This camera has an electronic viewfinder (most hate it, I like it) that nicely displays the focus area when shooting a video.
I'll try those setting this evening in the city centre.

I bought this camera mainly for the auto-focus efficiency and I red the manual from A to Z at that time. I was mainly recording outside in good light conditions and forgot about those possibilities. I also bought it for some animal photography. Then my use evolved, I recorded a lot inside on event organisers demands. I could better read once more the manual! On the other side, the results were always fine, but they could probably be even better...

Thanks, I learned about my own material and adjusted my parameters. The issue should disappear as will edit films based on those parameters ! I will learn about the right manual setting by playing with those.

Regards,

Marc

CubeAce wrote on 2/17/2024, 3:48 AM

Hi Marc.

I constantly go back to my camera manual and my own notebook for references. 300 plus pages of information takes time to absorb into any type of workflow and the more the camera can do the more one has to remember and when time permits, experiment. I am good at giving advice I sometimes myself forget to practice that in the heat of the moment. We can all be guilty of that especially if it is for an event that won't get repeated with a limited time frame to complete a shoot. I'm just about to go out now to do one myself. I'm equally sure when I get back I will think I could have done better. It's the nature of the work.

Ray.

MME007 wrote on 2/17/2024, 5:35 AM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I wanted to define some default manual video setting in all my camera bodies and found that they behave differently in function of the lens. Only the Sony 16-50 SSM behaves as previously described. This one replaces (second hand) the Tamron 17-50 that died two years ago...
With other lenses I have to use to lens switch... Just less accessible...

I was wondering the sense of having the exposure set longer than 1/50s while I'm recording at 50 fps. I can set it up to 1/4s. How does the camera manages that? How does it technically work? Surprisingly, while the A77 bodies limit the exposure in auto mode to 1/50s in 50p, the A99 goes up to 1/25s also in auto and 50p. I was using this latter for most of my recording with low light.
regards,

Marc

johnebaker wrote on 2/17/2024, 5:45 AM

@MME007

Hi Marc

. . . . AVCHD 50p . . . .

The Bluray standard has two allowable video encoding formats allowed h.264 (AVCHD) interlaced and MPEG-2 progressive, the AVCHD being the most popular.

Using 50p, conversion to 50i for BD is much better.

The problem with MPEG-2 is that the compression is not as high as h.264 so the available runtime of a movie is less, about 70 - 80%, and, IMHO, the difference in percieved quality is 0 - others will disagree with this.

The 'downside' of using 50p is the video files are going to be bigger, your pans are going to be smoother though and is worth the extra space used.

John EB

CubeAce wrote on 2/17/2024, 9:02 AM

@MME007

Hi Marc.

I've never had the chance to use a Sony camera but it is impossible to set the exposure time on my cameras to exceed the frame speed of a video. Well I can, but then get I a warning that video recording is not taking place when I hit record. Sometimes an ND filter can be a good way to increase an exposure time over changing another setting but again that can be time consuming if you are working to short time frame or changing light conditions.

I'm not going to disagree with @johnebaker 's comments on this one about the difference between MPEG-2 and h.264 because every camera model seems to produce differing results at different bit rates and some cameras do remarkably well with seemingly less bits that others.

We are all probably also guilty of getting over critical of our own work which can be good to keep yourself on your toes but should never get to the stage of beating yourself up. That can become a negative cycle where one wonders if it is worth carrying on. We all make mistakes. We all could have done something better. If you learn from the experience and can then do better next time then it's still a win.

Ray.

MME007 wrote on 2/17/2024, 12:28 PM

I made some tests with interesting results 😗

All my cameras allow me to go behind 1/50s for the exposure, up to 1/4s. The A99 even goes for 1/25s in automatic mode in 50p, strange ! I wanted to understand what's happening.
I shoot some video with A77 and A99 in low light, in both auto and manual modes with in both cases lenses with 2.8 aperture.

The results, all at 50p:

- I can select whatever I want as exposure time in manual mode and start shooting on both cameras.

- For an exposure of 1/50s in the camera, Magix indicates 1/30s as metadata for the taken film.. Exposure at 1/25s lead to 1/15s in Magix. Strange difference.

- In auto mode, the aperture is blocked at 3.5 but the auto-focus works (At its very last limits..)

- The A99 shoot in auto mode with 1/25 as exposure

Looking at the taken video in Magix, I see:

- More light as the aperture changed from 3.5 to 2.8, no surprise !

- At 1/25s exposure, the recorded film is at 50p but both show 25x 2 identical images per second !!! Just a non-sense, can better select 25p directly.

A just found the parameter "slow shutter" in the A99 menu. This one triggers the twice longer exposure and the resulting double images. The A77 doesn't offer that strange option.

This evening, I'll back to the city centre. It will be poor light conditions. I'll take the A99, 2.8 lens, switch it to 25P and shoot in both auto and manual modes to fully open the lens. If nice, I'll also try shooting in 50p.

Regards,
Marc

CubeAce wrote on 2/17/2024, 4:09 PM

@MME007

Good luck. 🤞

In low light conditions I have to drop to 25 fps to reduce the grain produced from the higher ISOs needed. A lot will depend on the lighting around you.

Let us know how you get on.

I should add my camera's metadata is not picked up by the video editors.

Ray.

MME007 wrote on 2/18/2024, 2:30 AM

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I'm quite satisfied with the results, all taken at 25p, some with auto-focus iris at 3.5, some in manual focus 2.8.
The thing is that it was crowdy, I wasn't alone and there is a lot to see within a short time, all stopping at 11pm.

So, I chose to give the priority in living the moment, meaning watching the scenes directly with my eyes and not through the camera lens. I recorded holding the camera in my hands and looking at the scene more than at the camera. This leads to some visible imperfections... Question of priorities.
You will remark it, I do not yet master the manual focus. I'm so used with the auto-focus...

Here some of my rushes:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Om7-NcbEykrShGyAvOqT0La2dIfCAfHY/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pUs-OLhvscNPbYjeXxj5qvBMrA8iWcdq/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Lfz9JZq3FyyRBfhP7rJiCYAgJtBE6d66/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S5oJuzugvDT4KbJ5_9vRBv__slKIx2Ny/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uB0_gfsyBEuJjTsHn_J7Ab0RyfdE1Qoz/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z90FuYmmd2xdB78mQ4rZcjF4prSjjzP8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19PO3YhGoMf8X_CoO3u-nbdBWLiP8Ra16/view?usp=sharing

The event: Brussels Bright festival.

Have a good day

Marc

CubeAce wrote on 2/18/2024, 5:01 AM

@MME007

Hi Marc.

I think you have done as well as can be expected in those circumstances. It is always a trade off of noise so the camera can focus better with amplified light reaching the sensor or focus hunting if you lower the IOS to reduce noise. Also IBIS is known to struggle in very low light. A powered Steadicam is probably the only way around that problem. I have videoed our local festivals with similar or worse lighting conditions and have exactly the same problems.

It is only in the last 12 months I have seen a few new cameras that can cope with those types of scenarios. Annoyingly a few top end smart phones are also really good at these types of shots but often cost more than some of the capable cameras.

Ray.