@CubeAce, if a project plays the same, with or without proxies, what purpose then do they serve? It's one reason for the upgrading of hardware. It seems with each new iteration of software, while the min specs might be the same, in reality, the software requires better hardware, and more HD space.

I think about what we were able to do with XP and meager RAM.

@Reyfox

Well I for one wasn't editing 4K video back then and I remember waiting for changes to be applied in Photoshop to a raw file from a 12 MP camera. There was no Facebook or YouTube either at first or internet TV 🤣.

I also remember not being able to handle files over 4GBs. Internet download and upload speeds. Limits to the file sizes you could upload to a website. Trying to watch a video on a website if you could find a video. Having monitors the same ratio as my camera sensor. Good old days 😲😏

Ray.

@Reyfox @johnebaker

Well it turns out with no surprise to me that Boris Titler Pro is the main culprit for the playback stutters and slow rendering for the first twenty seconds or so at the start of the project.

Possibly also because that causes the need to have two versions of transparency / chroma key to be used on the one clip. One so the clip itself is visible and the titling doesn't make the clip black with just the titling showing from within Boris titler and the second to make the video clip transparent to the clips above it.

Ray.

@CubeAce Hi, hopefully this will make you feel a bit better reg MS/VPX + TS on your machine, I knew it was a bad combo on my machine but I made a boring 11min vid for you to show how it goes with me.

MP4 AVC UHD 30fps constant, nearly 12sec clip (00.11.27) with some basic Flat text,

Playback was rubbish but ok after prerender, It took 10mins to export, without TS a few seconds,

I did Vegas too just for the comparison. playback was a little juddery but a little better than VPX & after I did Dynamic Ram preview any judder was fixed . render took 1.14secs with TS applied.

@Former user

Hi Gid.

Yup, all of that looks all too familiar to me. I was surprised how much extra vram it used on the nvidia card and your video processing was much more than I can get out of my 1650 Super. I was also looking at the motherboard memory figures that seemed to be a about the same as I see.

Progress bars on internal rendering. Got to love them 😂

Ray.

@CubeAce Hi, forgot to say all the activity in the Video Encode window was the screen capture recording, that window is blank if I'm not using Nvidia GeForce recorder.

Yeah, I think whatever system you have that Magix + TS isn't a smooth combination. Software not hardware problem in this case.

@Former user

There may also be a version difference. Mine is the general OFX version and not one bundled with a set of plugins for Vegas and also Continuum 2020.5. Try using pre-render for a smoother playback. That makes a proxy file of the clip and effects applied.

Ray.

@CubeAce I think TS is a program that is the same across the board, there's different versions/releases but it doesn't matter if it's OFX or Adobe , the base plugin programs is the same,

Think you need some new glasses 🤓😁, I did use prerender, I mentioned it in the comment above with the video attached & it's shown in my video 👍

@Former user

😳😳😳

I have noticed differences between what your system does and mine disregarding the speed differences.

Rendering.

Exporting.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray

I cannot see the GTX 1650 on the Boris supported graphics GPU list.

Not having TS, has it got the export to video file with Alpha channel feature now - I know in 2019 it was requested and they were 'working on it'?

John EB

@johnebaker @Former user @Reyfox

Hi John.

I don't know if Gid's newer copy has that option but my copy has to be opened within a video editing package and does in itself not export to a video format of any kind. It is not a stand-alone application. I can save anything I create as a blu. file and have three options as to where to save it to. In the programs main project folder along with the main presets, a generic folder for all project blu. files of my own or the project folder of the project I'm working on.

In that respect it is not like Particle Illusion.

There appear to be a lot of nvidia and AMD cards not on the list that work at least to some degree if not fully with Boris effects.

Nothing after the 2000 series is on the list including Gids nvidia 3090.

It does say it's a guide and has probably not been updated.

Guidelines for Graphics Card Support

We recommend that you run the latest graphics card driver version supported by your host application.

Graphics Cards must support OpenGL 2.1 or higher.

Editing in HD? A graphics card with a minimum of 1GB of RAM is recommended for best performance.

Editing in 2K or Higher? A graphics card with a minimum of 2GB of RAM is recommended for the best performance.

Ray.

@johnebaker, the GPU support page on the Boris site is woefully out of date. I've mentioned that in the Boris forum. GPU's from the 2000's listed? Boris acknowledged this and said they would fix that list.

I'm still waiting.

@Former user I watched your video. For some reason, TS and NBFX TP work painfully slow. Yes, they are very capable and highly customizable, but even with a beast computer, it's just going to take a long time.

With NBFX TP7, I sometimes work with the Standalone if I know exactly what I want or am going to use a template. Render as a video file, drop it on the timeline, smooth playback. The same with Boris TS.

Why these two title editors are tough to work with is anyone's guess.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

I thought that I had a bright idea, unfortunately I was wrong.

I was wondering if nesting in VPX would help. I created a Boris title on a clip of 10s (approx.). Copied it to another Movie, changed the title, back to first movie, nested the second movie on the timeline. Still choppy and slow. That is unfortunate.

I guess that the best way to treat Boris TS is to export/import mxv. Just keep the original in a second movie in case changes are needed.

For me, this makes Boris TS unusable. As @johnebaker noted, it would be good to be able to export the title to a transparent avi and import that.

This also makes BluffTitler the more interesting option. Not only can you export to a transparent avi file or an mp4 with a green screen, you can incorporate images and video clips. Speed of use and export with BluffTitler is difficult for any other similar product to compete with. It is the poor man's After Effects - does similar stuff but much, much faster, especially renderings.

While I'm thinking of it, if you watch almost any commercial movie, you'll see at the beginning 4 to 5 different movie production companies involved, each with their own logo type video. Most look very familiar and similar to templates and features that I see with BluffTitler.

Back to Boris, it seems that it and NB Titler Pro suffer from the same problems when used with VPX/MMS. It would be good if they created separate objects rather than using a video/photo on the timeline.

Has anyone had any communication with either entity as to why their titlers do not play well with VPX/MMS?

John CB

@browj2 @Reyfox @Former user @johnebaker

Hi John.(CB)

I don't think Boris is really aiming aiming it's products at individuals but companies. Their suite of plugins are only available on a monthly or yearly subscription starting at $175 a month, or slightly cheaper if you do a yearly subscription at $108 a month.

While anyone can pay for individual programs I think it is meant to be used as a package and as such probably bought mainly by production houses like your Vancouver based Image Engine VFX house. They are probably using working with workstations like the HP Z8 fury that can house and use four nvidia 4090 graphics cards, have two 1450w power supplies etc. Those in turn would be linked to a core server.

I suspect MMS and VPX couldn't handle that many cores or PCIe lanes those machines allow, whereas according to Image Engine the Boris effects suite can when running in their own software editing package and is the only editing suite at present capable of doing the compositing they need.

I like to play around with what I have for fun and it's no big deal if something goes pear shaped now and again. I expect this sort of stuff to be slow on a home setup. When things get complicated I can break things down and re-edit until they work. How large would an mxv file be at 4K? I can make MP4 files good enough at reasonable file sizes.

As a hobby, there are limits as to what I am willing to spend on software or hardware but if it were a business then spending out over $20,000 a year would make sense. But I don't fool myself that I have the skill to use these tools to any degree of competence no matter how much I study or practice. I just like the idea I can produce something unique rather than be stuck with templates.

Thinking about software in general, HumbleBundle have some great Video and audio Editing packages on sale at present. I am tempted to have a try at using Samplitude Pro X5 and Mixcraft 9. (both in separate bundles,) Both look promising for very different reasons. My interest in Samplitude is mainly the plugins and instruments while Mixcraft 9 along with some of the packages on offer that it can handle would be good for retro electronic sounds.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Boris TS seems to work fine in Vegas from what I understand, so why not with VPX? Why does Boris bother with Magix MMS/VPX if they can't make it work much more smoothly? Rhetorical questions, but Magix charges users for these plugins so they should at least work better than they do. From these discussions, it seems that there is no platform at any price that will run Boris TS smoothly with MMS/VPX.

I would invest some time in learning Boris TS if it worked better. Failing that, I'm better off spending my time learning and using BluffTitler.

Look at Pixelan, smooth and powerful.

I did another test using Boris TS to see if using it with just an image would be any smoother. Nope. I created a 1920x1080 green image to use. The one bundled with VPX is 100x100 pixels. BTS takes on this resolution for the title, so the title is blurred, hence my use of the 1920x1080 version. I even tried nesting this. Even doing Preview Rendering does not help BTS. It's a lost cause.

As for HumbleBundle, if you didn't get it, it's too late. I don't see it anymore.

Samplitude Pro X is a monster, and a great one. I have the Pro X3 Suite. But, I also have Music Maker and use it most of the time. I don't need the features of Samplitude. I have Independence SAL which comes with 70GB of samples (VSTi's) and works in Music Maker with Premium activated. I also have most of the instruments and more than a hundred Soundpools (they also work in Samplitude). I would have gone for the HB for Samplitude if it was for the Suite. The Samplitude Pro X Suite comes with the Cleaning & Restoration Suite and Independence 70GB (not SAL). One can take advantage of the C&R in MMS/VPX by using Samplitude as the external audio editor. I don't know how much the non-Suite has to offer in this respect, but you can try it out.

John CB

@browj2 @Former user @johnebaker @Reyfox

Hi John.

Boris Title Studio runs better in Vegas, it's not perfect and still adds a lot of load to the processing, ram and vram. I put that down to every aspect of the graphic being processed is scaleable and adjustable at a granular level. Lighting can be added and the space can be mapped in 3D space with a virtual camera within that space in relation to that lighting. If I save a Boris Title project project as a blu file I can use that in Vegas or any other Video editing package that supports Boris effects. If I had the full version of Particle Illusion I could use that with Title Studio and allow both to interact. There is a Boris Effects video showing how it works. It still mainly comes down to the processing power of a system as to how well it works but also how well a video editing package is able to use multiple cores with it.

The Samplitude offer is not the main program on offer. The offer has been extended and has about 14 days left. Look at the King of Content package.

I don't use sound-loops. I've had copies of both Music Maker and Sound Forge but from the looks of Samplitude, it is closer to what I'm used to working with and may integrate with my MIDI keyboard better than my ageing copy of Cubase. If I get on with Samplitude I could then upgrade with Magix at a much cheaper price for the suite.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the info about HumbleBundle (HB). For some reason, the Magix offering no longer shows up on the main screen under Bundles. You have to select Bundles/Software.

Music Maker is free; Editions, like the Plus Edition that comes with the HB offering, is not free and just unlocks some features and presets, gives you some instruments, and credits for a couple of Soundpools (missing is the VST bridge for 32bit VST's and VSTi's). You can always have the latest version of the program. You activate Editions on the startup page. It's a mini DAW, limited to one stereo input or track for recording at a time. There is no adjusting the tempo over time. Other than that, there is little that most users will find not available. Power users and professionals, of course, will want more, thus Samplitude Music Studio or Samplitude Pro X, preferably Suite.

You already have a bunch of Soundpools and I suggest that you take a look and listen, as some of them may be quite useful, even just for transitions, intros/outros, ending credits. As I said, they also work in Samplitude which has a Soundpools Manager like the one in Music Maker. You may not use loops, but other users will likely find them very useful.

Your MIDI keyboard should work with Music Maker. So, in MM you can record audio, MIDI, use loops, sound FX, etc., use FX, mix, and master.

With Samplitude, you can join the Samplitude forum where you will have to learn a new language - way beyond my comprehension. To get you going, look up Kraznet on YouTube for his tutorials on Samplitude.

Sound Forge is an audio editor, not a DAW.

If you don't want the Soundpools supplied with the HB, then someone (like me) would love to have them.

John CB

@browj2, BorisFX is not supported by VPX according to their WEBPAGE. I've worked with NBFX Titler Pro as a standalone and exported the file just fine. No, it doesn't work faster, but it also doesn't bog down the NLE either when it has to play back that part of the video, but it's already rendered.

And yes, in Vegas/Resolve Studio, it works ok. Not "smooth", but in Vegas, I have tools to give me a quick timeline render of that piece for playback and it works great. According to Boris notes, I think it might even work with the free version of Resolve.

@CubeAce, you can buy Continuum Complete for $695 perpetual and upgrade as you want each year, or stick with what you have. If you already have registered Boris stuff, you can get credit towards that purchase. And it's even better priced during Black Friday. Usually the upgrade price is about $150, or less than $15 a month. A couple of cups of high priced coffee. And you get a whole bunch of plugins with it.

But if you are referring to Continuum, Sapphire, Mocha, Silhouette and Optics.... everything that Boris offers, yes, it's that price. But Continuum alone isn't. With Continuum, almost all the plugins

I have Continuum Complete, which includes Title Studio. More than enough plugins for me, ..

@Reyfox

Hi,

We're not talking about BorisFX, but Boris Title Studio which does work with VPX/MMS, albeit very poorly.

John CB

@Reyfox

Hi,

Further to the above, I noticed that I have Boris FX, probably Continuum OFX on my laptop and they work with the exception of transitions which froze VPX. Since I haven't paid for that, I get a big X across the screen.

The Boris website for the Continuum OFX states that, "Continuum OFX may work to varying degrees in other OFX hosts, but at this time it is only officially supported in Resolve, Vegas Pro, and Nuke."

The effects that I tried worked fine, unlike Boris Title Studio.

I first got Boris TS in 2020, as far as I can tell. I think that it was bundled with something, but I don't recall what. Does anyone remember?

EDIT: I seem to recall that Boris was offering TS for free at the time. I found the invoice and registration.

John CB

@browj2

I have Continuum, and a lot of it also works in VPX/MMS. Some work fine, others, it's a struggle. Going to BorisFX website looking at what software support Continuum, which includes Title Studio, there is no mention of VPX.

Or.. you can go to Title Studio, scroll down and you will see the supported host platforms. Again, no mention of VPX.

So while it might work with other software that has some OFX support, there is no official support for VPX, like with Resolve, Vegas Pro and Nuke.

@browj2

Hi John

I got my copy with perpetual licence as a giveaway at Boris Effects during lockdown so I can't complain.

I think Davinci Resolve is the only commercial NLE that is fully compliant with all Boris Effects offerings. They have similar programming architecture as far as I can make out. By that I mean both programs perform better the more processing cores and PCIe lanes you can use at once, the better the programs run.

@Reyfox

Video is still second to still image shooting for me. I spend way more time shooting stills than I do shooting video footage. I play at video editing and experiment with it. Often is is just footage to show where and what I have taken stills of. If I wanted Boris Effects I would want Mocha as much as Continuum but I can't see me paying out for a computer system that could really take advantage of them. I like our cars and my other hobbies too much to spend that sort of money in one area. I have also found ways around doing what I want in video editing so far. It quite often involves more steps but I get there eventually.

Ray.