Audio "mute" on many clips with audio on Pro X

timnich wrote on 2/9/2015, 1:56 AM

I have an archive of mostly .mov files in a a variety of formats including DV, Prores H264. In all cases however the audio is in 16bit wav format

When trying to preview the clips they mostly appear to be mute (the H264 being the only exception I have found so far). However on adding a random sample of a mute clip to the timeline, the audio appeared after the usual audio import process had completed.

For some DV format files I have both an AVI version and a mov version, and the AVI audio previews fine, but not the mov version. They are both fine in other players.

The issue seems to be predominantly with mov files, but is not exclusively so

Not being able to preview the clips with audio is some what limiting, and as it works for some formats I am wondering if there is some setting wrong somewhere. Its not really usable as it is.

Comments

emmrecs wrote on 2/9/2015, 8:32 AM

It would be helpful to know which version of VPX!

However, whenever mov files are proving problematic the usual reason is that the user needs to install the latest version of (free) Quicktime.  However, since some of your clips apparently play correctly this does not seem nearly so clear-cut here.  However, I think it would do absolutely no harm at all to find the QT download page and check that you have the latest version fully installed.

Failing that, can you post one of these mov files somewhere for those of us with VPX to test on our systems?

I realise that all this does not completely answer your problem since you write that the issue is not exclusively with mov files!  Just as a possible clue, could you see what MediaInfo and/or GSpot utilities report about the format and codecs needed to play these files.  The fact that players like WMP can play the files, and hence have the necesseary codecs available, does NOT automatically mean that VPX can access those same codes, unfortunately!

Jeff

Last changed by emmrecs on 2/9/2015, 8:32 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1660TI and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Samplitude Pro X7 Suite, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

timnich wrote on 2/9/2015, 10:25 AM

It would be helpful to know which version of VPX!

Web install, and patched with 13.0.5.9  all within the last week

However, whenever mov files are proving problematic the usual reason is that the user needs to install the latest version of (free) Quicktime.  However, since some of your clips apparently play correctly this does not seem nearly so clear-cut here.  However, I think it would do absolutely no harm at all to find the QT download page and check that you have the latest version fully installed.

Failing that, can you post one of these mov files somewhere for those of us with VPX to test on our systems?

I will try and generate some small subclip samples.

I realise that all this does not completely answer your problem since you write that the issue is not exclusively with mov files!  Just as a possible clue, could you see what MediaInfo and/or GSpot utilities report about the format and codecs needed to play these files.  The fact that players like WMP can play the files, and hence have the necesseary codecs available, does NOT automatically mean that VPX can access those same codes, unfortunately!

As I said, in all cases the audio is 16/24 bit wav 48k Little Endian, and all play in quicktime on the same machine. The one clip I have found so far which does preview is 44.1K and Big Endian, so thos are two differences I can try to narrow down.

Jeff

 

emmrecs wrote on 2/9/2015, 1:51 PM

Hi.  Thanks for the further information.  The version of VPX you have is X6!

However, I think the clue to resolving your problem lies in your final paragraph: 

As I said, in all cases the audio is 16/24 bit wav 48k Little Endian, and all play in quicktime on the same machine. The one clip I have found so far which does preview is 44.1K and Big Endian, so thos are two differences I can try to narrow down.

The fact that 44.1kHz audio plays but 48kHz does not strongly suggests that your soundcard, whether internal or otherwise, is "set" to 44.1kHz.   On my set-up (I have VPX5, but quite a high-level soundcard) videos will not play at all in VPX5 if my soundcard is set to anything other than 48kHz.  Other audio apps I use, most notably Adobe Audition, will allow me to run 44.1kHz files whilst the soundcard is set at 48, and vice versa, whereas another audio app, Reaper, forces my soundcard to change to 44.1!  VPX5, as is the case with VPX6, apparently, either refuses to play the file at all (as happens to me) or plays it with no audio because it cannot/does not force that change of sample rate on my soundcard.  (I don't think the Big Endian/Little Endian difference will affect the outcome, but I could well be wrong!)

The "other players" you mention in your first post clearly can either force the card to change frequency or can resample the audio to 48kHz "on the fly".

So, you need to set your soundcard sample frequency to 48kHz in order to hear the troublesome files, but then you will have a problem with the 44.1 file!  In this case, your only solution might well be to find a suitable convertor to convert the 44.1 audio to 48.  As I'm sure you're aware, 44.1kHz is the "standard" sampling frequency for 16 bit CDs; 48kHz is the "standard" for video and DVD.

HTH
Jeff

Last changed by emmrecs on 2/9/2015, 1:51 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1660TI and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Samplitude Pro X7 Suite, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

timnich wrote on 2/9/2015, 2:04 PM

Hi.  Thanks for the further information.  The version of VPX you have is X6!

However, I think the clue to resolving your problem lies in your final paragraph: 

As I said, in all cases the audio is 16/24 bit wav 48k Little Endian, and all play in quicktime on the same machine. The one clip I have found so far which does preview is 44.1K and Big Endian, so thos are two differences I can try to narrow down.

Having taken a small DV.mov that played mute, I have made some variations, 48k 44.1k both big and little endian. All 4 play mute until imported. So it looks like sample rate and endian ness are not the critical parameters!

Thanks for your in depth explanation, but sadly in this case I don't think thats whats happening.

 

emmrecs wrote on 2/10/2015, 4:02 AM

Hmmm.. interesting.  So the sampling frequency was not the problem here!

I'd still like to see/ attempt to open and play any extract from one of these files, if you can post it somewhere.

However, I am a little confused by certain things you write, especially in connection with the types of file you are trying to play.  For instance, in your most recent post you speak of a "DV.mov" file.  "DV" (Digital Video) is a file format/container; "mov" is a different file format/container.  Can you explain a little more?

Last changed by emmrecs on 2/10/2015, 4:02 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1660TI and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Samplitude Pro X7 Suite, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

timnich wrote on 2/10/2015, 6:22 AM

Hmmm.. interesting.  So the sampling frequency was not the problem here!

I'd still like to see/ attempt to open and play any extract from one of these files, if you can post it somewhere.

http://www.datafilehost.com/d/3b91245c

4 samples matrixed on 48k 44.1K and big/lillte endian. 24Meg zip.

Non preview on my system, but are fine after adding to timeline (red dot)

However, I am a little confused by certain things you write, especially in connection with the types of file you are trying to play.  For instance, in your most recent post you speak of a "DV.mov" file.  "DV" (Digital Video) is a file format/container; "mov" is a different file format/container.  Can you explain a little more?

DV can be many things, but in this context I am reffering to the video codec/stream as specified by IEC 61834 at. 25Mb/s 4.2.0 625/50. This can often be found in a .dv or .dif  file raw stream format when captured from a firewire port, or wrapped in .avi or .mov (or even mxf) , depending upon the capture software in use.

DV codec video in a mov wrapper used to be more common than AVI in professional circles due to the better metadata support, particularly timecode.

emmrecs wrote on 2/10/2015, 9:19 AM

OK, files downloaded (once I had unticked the option for a download manager which my AV threw a wobbly at!).

Will report back asap.

Last changed by emmrecs on 2/10/2015, 9:19 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1660TI and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Samplitude Pro X7 Suite, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

emmrecs wrote on 2/10/2015, 9:49 AM

Now that I've properly re-read your original post AND viewed the clips you posted, I can see exactly what you mean: if you click to preview any of the files, they play in the "Source" screen, but without audio.  Once placed on the timeline, they play in the "Program" screen and audio is heard AND if you then click to play again in the "Source" screen, video AND audio are both present!

I now realise that this is something I have seen before with VPX5.  I recently finished editing/exporting some Full HD .mov footage from my Canon EOS (still) camera; "preview" behaved in exactly the same manner, no audio.  I did not need to "hear" the audio particularly so never pursued why this was happening.

I can think of no logical reason why it should happen!  I've also just gone back to the raw footage I referred to above, played a mov file in Preview: no audio.  Import the footage to the timeline and audio is present!

I think you may need to raise a ticket with MAGIX Support about this.  As I said above, it was not really a problem for me; every clip I was using was quite short and I really thought it was just something about my computer/installation of VPX/the actual footage (or any combination of these) that was producing an anomaly I could quite happily ignore!

Please let us know what Support say.  As a user of VPX6 you are clearly still within the one year period where technical support is free so why not take advantage?!!

Jeff

PS.  Perhaps JohnCB, who also owns/uses VPX6 might download and check your files on his computer.  Hopefully, he'll see this thread and join in!

Last changed by emmrecs on 2/10/2015, 9:52 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1660TI and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Samplitude Pro X7 Suite, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

browj2 wrote on 2/10/2015, 7:33 PM

Hi Tim and Jeff,

Yes, I have noticed this and it seems to be random. However, I am jumping back and forth from VPX6 to MEP2015, so I'm not sure if it's just VPX6. I will test some more. Like you, Jeff, I just ignored it

I'll get back to you both here.

I'm experiencing another problem with sound in MEP2015 and if I can reproduce it, I'll post it in the Forum part.

Last changed by browj2 on 2/10/2015, 7:33 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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timnich wrote on 2/13/2015, 8:40 AM

I raised this issue with Tech support, and have just had a response, which basically says

That;s the way it is, and as long as the clips import OK we don't see the need to do anything about it".

Which frankly I think is a rubbish response for a product that is supposedly:-

"... a video editing solution geared towards demanding requirements of ambitious and professional users"

I cannot think of any other pro or semi-pro product lacking such a basic operational ability of being able to preview clips without a lengthy import process that makes a copy of part of the media.