Thanks @CubeAce

My PC guy told me to collect the requirements for my software, so I hope he has a better understanding of what you wrote. My video edits often use at least two audio tracks & up to 5 tracks of videos, nowadays, many are 4k. I've been wanting to make full concert videos recently. The other issue I have is the codec for my older MVI video files. I know the codec is no longer standard, I bought it once from Magix, then again from microsoft, but it doesn't always install, or I don't know where to find it to install. This happened when I had to install my older Magix version and it no longer played MVI files because the codec was installed in the 'updated' newer version that kept on crashing and I had to delete. Eventually it was installed, and the files worked, but I don't know why and what I would have to do if my program didn't have the codec again when I install it on the new computer.

I wish I was more tech savvy but the older I get, the harder it is to grasp some things. I really enjoy editing w/ Magix, it's audio editing is something I haven't found on comparable software many times more expensive, but dang it, keeping up w/ it all can be so aggravating.

That's the other issue, my current PC doesn't have minimum specs to run Windows 11, so another reason I need to upgrade. People have suggested moving over to Apple video editing, but I used Apples when they were Macintoshes and their history of elitism and seeming to enjoy making things difficult & more expensive for their users just turns me off.

Thanks again

@Tusk

Hi

. . . . . People have suggested moving over to Apple video editing . . . .

Nice machines, however you do suffer from 'vendor lock in' with both hardware and software.

I would also recommend an Intel processor with integrated GPU (generation 10 or later) and a Nvidia graphics card eg RTX 2000 or 3000 series, and preferably 2 drives one for OS and programs the second for data - see my signature for more details. Video editing can very space hungry if you have a lot of projects on the go at the same time..

Both my laptop and PC have this combination of processor and GPU and they work well with 4K video - the laptop does not have 2 drives as it is my mobile editing device and only has the current porject on it, and I use external hard drives for backup and tranfer to/from my PC..

HTH

John EB
Forum Moderator

@johnebaker @Tusk

Hi both.

If I used cameras that produced Pro-Res 444 files I would change to a Mac in a heartbeat but that would be my only reason.

I agree with John about vendor lock but I also think you pay more for their research and development over Windows offerings.

As for graphics cards. If I could afford the additional $100 / £s or so I would personally go for an nvidia 3060 over a 2060 at present as it has newer architecture and probably more future proof and you get double the vram, a third more processing cores and double the amount of shader units for 3D processing, which is cheap for that extra money and would be difficult to get by other means. Although not cheap I think it represents best bang for the buck at present and for keeping longer before redundancy. Also, for a newer GPU, its power requirements are only 10 watts more than for the 2060.

What to do about older codec compatibility I'm not quite sure about.

Ray.

@Tusk @johnebaker

I should address my personal concerns about drives.

It has only in recent months I have done project of more than fifteen minutes length.

Now I'm doing projects closer to an hour or over. This has started to produce some very weird disc and CPU activity both during playback / editing within projects when just one slight alteration of say moving an object a couple of frames forward or backward on the timeline will produce huge spikes in disk read and write speeds resulting in at best a freezing of the program or if the project happens to be doing a BAK save at the same time, sometimes has caused a crash. Now if the project is on my RED drive it maxes out the read / write speed of the drive for around 30 seconds or longer. With my SSD used instead I get spikes of over 400MB/s for maybe a few seconds, but both instances are then followed by the nvidia GPU maxing out for a further period which can be quite short or up to a further minute or more before everything unfreezes during editing.

During rendering an export, if I get such spikes from both reading and writing to the same drive is when the program crashes out and effectively corrupts the project MVP file which I then have to manually look for the closest time-wise BAK file to then restore and hopefully not have to repeat any alterations I last made.

That has not been fun and I do realize my own experiences may not be typical but has made me probably much more cautious about my own future requirements. I also don't blame the program or the components in use but just my own pursuance of increasing the limits of what I can or can't achieve.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Ray, if my machine was behaving like that, I'd do a fresh install of Windows and change that Red drive. This is 2022 and things aren't supposed to just run uncontrollably until they blow up the whole system (unless they are programmed poorly, of course). And don't get me started on that crazy backup routine...

@AAProds

Hi Al.

You can try the project out for yourself if you like. It's only 45 GB in size and loads 10GB of data to motherboard ram before I even press the play button, and I could send it bit by bit via Google Drive for you to assemble into a project folder. There is nothing wrong with the RED drive. It's just that running four or five parallel 4k 100MB/s blended into each other exceeds the disks read and buffer capacity. (256MBs cache 650MB/s.) The bursts of activity I assume happen when one drive falls behind the other or has to wait in the case of just using one drive while the read write cycles sort themselves out. Also running three drive decreases the export time to a third less than using two drives and allows my nvidia card to reach up 98% usage where previously it seldom got beyond 53% whatever the project length.

Ray.

@CubeAce  This reminds me of another thing I don't understand w/ my Magix software, there are times I have the program open, no files imported, I can hear my PC pushing hard. I pull up my task manager and see it's Magix taking sometimes up to 100% of the power and it's not even running. This happens more often when I have files uploaded to the software. It might be just sitting there while I'm taking a break browsing and the software is maxing out my CPU into the red, even when nothing else is running on my PC. There are other times when it's running 'normal' and not taxing my CPU at all. It was especially bad after I bought the last few upgrades until I could no longer use my program from constant freezes on even the slightest movement on the time line. That's why I had to search my email to get a link to a much older version just to edit...

Tusk

@Tusk

Hi.

In the past it has been noted that MS / MEP / VPX does an amount of background tidying up when not being used. Mainly it used to be finishing downloading store front content or new offers, updating price changes and new catalog entries etc. but there may be other housekeeping tasks running in the background I'm not aware of. In truth though, although I have seen that for myself, I really haven't clue as to what is exactly going on.

If I have an open project then the program will load what it feels is sufficient data into any vram, motherboard ram and if not enough physical memory, start writing to disc even when idling but normally only if I have pressed the play button at some point before.

At present I have a very short but complex Ending title set awaiting rendering its about 47 secs long, containing about 2GB of video files and 5 psd documents of around 75MBs each over six video tracks + one audio track running at once and yet the program has loaded an additional 8GB of data spread between my nvidia vram and motherboard reserved graphics ram. There is no discernible disc or CPU activity. Graphics (text) seem to test my system a lot as does any use of really dynamic size, position, rotation movement over periods of less than a second. It plays like a slug on crutches without a pre-render but renders well in relatively good time. A lot can depend on the effects used on each clip as well as how many effects are used on each object.

I think the problem is with personal computers in general that it is difficult with any certainty how any program is going to interact with any hardware. Video editors specifically more so. Even the same graphics cards made by two different companies can behave slightly differently. Differences in motherboards, ram timings, type and specs of different drives, GPU and CPU choices, the list is practically endless.

John EB has a good stable system that if memory serves me correctly has held up over the past three upgrades.

How many more upgrades though before John starts to tell that things are beginning to slow down I have no idea but changes are coming to Intel and possibly Windows, so the closer you are to newer components even if it is an i5 11th gen instead of an i712th gen and an nvidia 3050 / 2060 instead of a 3070, at least it should survive at least another three to four years of upgrades. I'm not sure my system will. It has no ability to use resizable bar and no ability to upgrade to the next level of PCIe specs. It is just about capable of using direct X 12.1 ultimate even though at present Magix states it only need to access up to Direct X11.1, I don't think I (or John) are convinced it is not already using some parts of Direct X 12. If not the program then perhaps some of the third party effects.

Ray.

Ray.

@CubeAce "If you are editing footage from five cameras I would also opt to have separate drive for each function."

I'm not sure what you mean, "for each function"? Do you mean like @johnebaker suggested, " 2 drives one for OS and programs the second for data"?

My PC has a half TB ssd (c drive) drive for programs and a 2TB drive for data (e drive), but when I was starting to experience crashes for relatively small projects, my computer guy explained it was because I didn't have the files I was using on the same drive, my ssd C drive.

He said it was because they are different types of drives and the crash is occurring because the program has to draw from the other drive (E), which stresses the system if you're using large files, causing the crash... is this wrong? You're supposed to have your media files separate from your C drive? It didn't seem any different whether they were together on the c drive or not...

IMO the issue turned out to be the last few upgrades I bought was full of bloatware, sometimes crashing trying to load the incessant advertising pop ups :/

@Tusk

Hi,

He said it was because they are different types of drives and the crash is occurring because the program has to draw from the other drive (E), which stresses the system if you're using large files, causing the crash... is this wrong?

Definitely wrong!

I have files all over the place. Program on C along with Magix Video Content, My Docs on B along with the project file MVP, photo files and some video on B, some on E, sometimes elsewhere. I export to O, an additional SSD that I had put in my computer, left over from the previous one. Crashes are rare, usually caused by iffy material - variable fps files.

Check my signature to see my main setup - Desktop.

IMO the issue turned out to be the last few upgrades I bought was full of bloatware, sometimes crashing trying to load the incessant advertising pop ups :/

What would that "bloatware" be?

John CB

@browj2

IMO the issue turned out to be the last few upgrades I bought was full of bloatware, sometimes crashing trying to load the incessant advertising pop ups :/

What would that "bloatware" be?

Maybe I mispoke, by bloatware, I'm referring to loading the graphics and icons on the control panel which I find is distracting... I guess I think of it as bloating in that it's having to pause to load all the unnecessary graphics on the interface. It just seemed to add things that unnecessarily slowed down my PC , I always looked for how to return the interface to the simple drop down text back when I used to buy upgrades until the crashes became unusable.

I don't really use many features on Magix, nor do I understand how to use them, like masking, or some of the motion text that seem to have boxes around them. I don't use any special effects other than transitions, so it doesn't make sense for so many crashes to happen for such basic usage.

Because I edit music videos, the thing I use from Magix that is invaluable to me, makes me continue to use it, is the audio editing which I've learned to use for my needs over the years as an audio editing novice, something no other video editing software has at this price.

(addendum: I do colour correction, and adjustments like contrast/sharpen/gamma and sometimes move the zoom area around which will tax my PC, but I've done this for as long as I've used Magix, near 10 years, so much crashing wasn't an issue as it is today)

@Tusk

Hi.

You should read How to build a Video Editing Computer by the people who develop the software.

Ray.

@Tusk

Hi

. . . . He said it was because they are different types of drives and the crash is occurring because the program has to draw from the other drive (E), which stresses the system if you're using large files, causing the crash... is this wrong? . . . .

I would agree with @browj2 - definitely incorrect. Like John CB I have multiple drives (4) in my PC, for OS, Data, Backup data and exporting to and I do not have any crashing problems with Movie Studio.

Do you have a NVidia or AMD graphics card in the PC - from your specs you have just the Intel UHD 630 iGPU - the same as in my PC and laptop.

Are the graphics drivers up to date?

John EB

@johnebaker 

My graphics card is an NVidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti and drivers are updated.

To be clear, the issue as described by my computer guy isn't how many drives the software uses, it's that the drives are different types of drives, having to communicate while doing some heavy processing, as opposed to all the drives in use being the same types.

My C drive is a Solid State Drive, my E drive, where my media is, isn't. So you're saying being different types of drives shouldn't affect how my software runs?

Thanks

@Tusk

So you're saying being different types of drives shouldn't affect how my software runs?

That's what I'm seeing here, Yes. I have a dog's breakfast of a setup and pull files from normally, two different drives. I've never had an issue with crashing because of that.

@Tusk

Hi.

No, john isn't saying that, but the drive does need to be sufficient to enable to deliver the chunks of audio and video ahead of being needed to process. A lot will depend on the amount of tracks running in parallel at the same time, such as producing footage with picture in picture. So a SATA drive with at least a 256MB cache would be needed at spindle seek times need to be low. SSDs can have their own drawbacks with many not able to deliver large files quickly and slow down with such data files. If the motherboard supports it an additional SSD project drive of 500GBs should suffice for editing projects on (again, there are fast and slow SSD drives, make sure you understand the specs of such devices) . I have a specific drive for that. But then the graphics card must be able to keep up and with 4k footage I'm finding that VPX 14 is much more hardware hungry than my copy of MEP 2022. Purely because MS 2023 and VPX 14 is designed to work with graphics components that have more processing cores and vram than I currently possess. Although having said that my graphics card would probably be OK if my projects were not so dependent on using so many effects at the same time. In that instance I could use my WD RED drive for the project as that is not the bottleneck but my Intel HD 630 and nvidia 1650 Super seem to be the limiting factor at that point. Depending on the selections made within Movie Studio and within Windows can also make a difference. I notice a big difference in the way motherboard memory is utilised between my copy of Movie Edit Pro 2022 and VPX 14 and have had to adjust my settings accordingly. VPX is using twice the amount of memory than my earlier copy of MEP for the same project.

A lot will depend on how you use the program and the types of files you use. The codec, resolution, and frame rate all have different impacts on both the software and hardware. The more complex the compression is, avi, H264, H265, etc, and the amount of compression within those formats all need dealing with in real time. So no one component is less or more important than the next. Getting that balance correct is hard and up to a point, user dependent. We don't know your needs, and a lot of people video editing don't know their own needs or understand the difference and possible difficulties between using one codec over another.

We sometimes don't give the correct advice because we don't always get all the relevant information and can only give a more generic answer.

If anyone is concerned about future proofing, then getting the best and latest components you can afford is the safest bet. The older and less powerful each component in the chain is, the chances of it needing to be replaced becomes more probable as the software gets more complex and built for newer components in mind.

Ray.

@Tusk

Hi

. . . .  it's that the drives are different types of drives . . . .

This is nonsense.

. . . . So you're saying being different types of drives shouldn't affect how my software runs? . . . .

That is exactly what I am saying, having a mix of SSD and HDD drives is not relevant.

What does matter is, as @CubeAce has commented on, the the drive buffer sizes, the bigger the better. The spindle speed of a HDD is less relevant.

. . . . The older and less powerful each component in the chain is . . . .

I totally agree with Rays comment - I switched out 7200rpm drives with small buffers for 5200 RPM drives with large buffers and they are faster at transferring data and the program has no problems playing a timeline without any performance enhancing options, such as using Proxy files and having the preview monitor lightning symbol, turned on.

Eg this collage project of 7 4K UHD h.264 60Mb/s encoded videos, 5 image masks with rotation and Chromakey Alpha applied, plays relatively smoothly when previewing on my PC (SSD/HDD mix) however on my laptop (single SSD) plays very poorly with a lot of hesitation/jerkiness.

At the transition point in the background video there are 7 videos being loaded and processed giving a maximum data transfer rate of 420 Mb/s, and 360 Mb/s max in the main rotation sequence either side of the transtion.

The PC can handle this as all this data is being read from the HDD with minimal switching between read and write modes. On the laptop the data is being read and written along with all the Windows processes that are accessing the single SSD drive.

HTH

John EB

@CubeAce @johnebaker 

I appreciate the input, unfortunately much of this might as well be in a different language as far as specs go.

The guy I go to for my PC work at times acts frustrated at my lack of understanding what he's trying to say (I've decided to never go HP or Dell as those come w/ issues that seem to depend on their 'help' which, from my experience, is often using overseas help that sometimes 'requires' them to remotely take over your computer...then comes the spam emails and phone calls...). I was hoping to gather info in list form of requirements for the software, but now it seems I might just link him to this thread as there's no way I can relay to him what you're posting here.

I've said I sometimes use up to five video media sources (I've also 'stacked' audio as a sort of 'multi-track' to get the audio, or hide distracting sounds, that I want, a lot of the time two audio tracks simultaneously). But I've never had all the video tracks being processed simultaneously, Most often I just only the parts of the videos as much as I need it, then fade one scene into another and remove any media that's not used, hopefully to help alleviate unnecessary processing. That's why I'm confused why the software takes so many resources to edit simple videos, barely lasting longer than five minutes.

If I didn't have this much trouble worrying about whether my PC can handle the project or not, I might be more inclined to use more intensive editing options that Magix has in their software.

Anthony

@Tusk

It's quite possible that your PC guy builds more computers for gaming than for video editing.

Along with that, I think Magix, Edius, and Adobe are the only video software developers that I know of that take advantage of using two GPUs to get additional benefit for dealing with larger complex video projects. That makes anyone not using the software unaware of some the quirks of such programs. DaVinci Resolve and and a few others depend heavily on the amount and speed of CPU processing cores. There are more ways to peel an onion, so to speak. But to get the best out of the full version of DaVinci Resolve you had better be packing a very powerful CPU. 36 cores + would be nice. There is no getting around that video editing programs are the most resource hungry and fast developing bits of software out there. Each new release of each program takes advantage of the latest hardware where possible if you are a **power user. I have taken the bullet and 'upgraded' to VPX 14. Possibly an 'upgrade too far' for my machine specs. More on that at a later time when I have the time to put a full comprehensive test findings up. Basically most of the system is OK but not my main GPU or possibly even my 9th gen Intel CPU but my SATA drives are the least of the problems. VPX 14 is running but not as well as the VPX 12 version did. I will explain more when I do my post.

And that in a nutshell is the main problem. New versions of these programs need to be matched with appropriate hardware which gets left behind just as quickly as the new generations of software are written to take advantage of those components where possible. The architecture of both CPUs and GPUs are changing dramatically and Microsoft is updating it's operating system to reflect that. The use of chipletts, and resizable bar is making older hardware redundant slowly but surely and the software is reflecting that as we go from using billions to trillions of transistors in a modern CPU or GPU core. I personally think that VPX 14 and possibly Movie Studio 2023 are reflecting that (I say possibly to Movie Studio 2023 as I don't have it. I always keep one program one upgrade behind in case of compatibility problems.)

Both the new programs (If Movie studio has the same base structure as VPX 14) are taking advantage of Intel's new QuickSync feature and resizable bar and the older supported Microsoft WARP feature I think is now becoming problematic. There seems to have been a leap in the way memory is managed in these new versions along with whatever other changes have taken place. What hasn't changed is the transfer speeds needed for the video files. At least not that much, yet. Maybe in the next program 'upgrade'. Who can tell?

More on this later in my post. Possibly tomorrow or Friday.

** Power user. My definition: Someone working with 4k files (or higher) in parallel tracks for blending or using PiP, or or using a lot of the third party effects available in multiple instances on one clip.

Ray.

@CubeAce 

I found him a few years ago when I tired of the entanglements that come w/ purchasing from mainstream PC manufacturers, my current PC is his build. He has since closed down his storefront, downsized, works from home (pandemic accelerated change) and says he mostly works w/ larger companies and troubleshooting their systems. Says he's tired of having to deal w/ 'average consumer' issues. I'm not sure he necessarily has a 'specialty' in gaming, but I expect not. It's possible his understanding of the actual requirements of video editing is mostly theoretical as opposed to having to troubleshoot systems made for video editing. I'll forward this thread to him when I finally make a purchase and get w/ him as to how to enhance the purchase for my needs, maybe what we've discussed here might help him in the future. I'm hoping this coming holiday season will reveal some decently priced PC's I can purchase to start a new year w/ a more powerful/reliable PC.

(A caveat is, this will be my 11th year doing this for the artist I support, she had recently given me full access to bring how many cameras I want including an external mic. The unfortunate thing is everything, travel, tickets, equipment comes from my own pocket because I knew people would accuse me of 'monetizing' what I do, not even my Youtube channel of 126,000 subscribers. I want my motivation to be clean of such things. That being said, I'm getting older and should be thinking about the future instead of spending so much on travel, equipment and PC editing. Before the Pandemic, I was set to video her 2020 European tour, I was thinking that might be my last 'hurrah' because this 'hobby' is way too expensive, especially because I don't make any money from it. My 'reward' is hanging out w/ young musicians, making new friends, visiting new cities and a way of creative expression that not only supports my artist, but people around the world enjoy. Since the Pandemic, I'm reenergized to do this again, so it's a tough call to continue to pour into this when I have no money coming in from it. But what fun it is to do this.... I really need to win the Lottery :P)

Just a couple of weeks ago, I got my tenth video on her channel, my video w/ her sound board audio, from her September tour of the Midwest :)

@Tusk

I understand where you are coming from. Over the years I have supported bands (mainly as their mixing engineer) but in more recent times have helped local charities by covering their events. Mainly with stills photography but a little video work now and then. All unpaid, but then I don't have to travel far. As you say it is the privileged access and the meeting of new people that is the reward.

I do think with 126,000 subscribers though you are doing something wrong if you don't make some money even if it doesn't cover your costs. Whatever you do online will bring criticism. It should be water off a ducks back and taken as doing something right and a backhanded compliment if you get anyone worked up through jealousy.

There is a YouTuber whose Chanel is called 'Chris Abroad' who every couple of months collects all of the best of his hate mail and makes fun of them. They are good fun to watch. It does mean he gets more hate comments but he revels in it and those who support him give very generously. Not everyone is wealthy enough to do everything for free and the artist clearly likes your support. Most hate comments come from other less successful people wanting to monetize their channel but not getting the subscriber base.

My main concern covering events is the weight of the gear which seems to get heavier at each new event I attend 😅.

Mostly I just get accreditation on the websites and social platforms they post my images on. So far that has been enough but as I am coming up for retirement myself soon that may yet change.

Enjoy your adventures and don't be put off by any negativity. The world has more critics than people that actually get off of their behinds and do or can. I have never had a negative comment from anyone I have met face to face. Quite the opposite. I'm sure you have noticed the same thing.

Ray.

@CubeAce

I'm an over thinker, I have one of those brains that continues whether I like it or not. When I started following Haley, she was 20 years old and an exceptional looking young lady who has likely been hit on a lot by much older men (she sings songs as if she's from past eras so attracts older fans like myself) and the channel was started as just a way for fans who can't make her very few shows. I knew before I embarked on it as a hobby I'd like to nurture, that it was important for her and fans, to know that I'm not one of those 'creepy' male fans. I decided back then that I would not behave in any way that made her uncomfortable or any of her young female fans, so I try to always be transparent about the what I'm doing, why I'm doing etc... This is a reason I decided the best way to prove my motivation is to not accept money for what I freely do as a fan (I used to bring 30-40 T-shirts I designed to pass out to fans at her shows).

As far as 'money' it's kind of a perspective thing. Along w/ the satisfaction that I've created something that actually has positive impact, my actions also talk to 'other' fans, those who see what I do and want to help. IMO that's partly due to seeing that I don't take money for what I do.

In 10+ years, I've accrued a small group we've dubbed "TeamHaleyFans", created because many of the fans who help don't need the recognition, so we created the name as a group name for credit. Some of these fans give me a place to stay, some have bought me equipment, my first external mic was given to me before I had anyway of getting a point and shoot camera in let alone an external mic. BUT it came in handy when I was surprisingly given a HUGE opportunity to video Haley singing "Light My Fire" w/ the Doors' Robby Krienger at the Troubadour, this was the first video I got posted on Haley's channel, and it was all thanks to her manager giving me the opportunity. The difference is, now I have Haley's blessing and she's open to using my videos w/ her audio, that the stakes have elevated even more. No longer can my videos be what they were, there's an expectation she might use it, so the pressure is even higher to do a good job.

I'm not complaining, it's just I've worked towards a place I could never have dreamed of, and like you say, 'privileged' access is it's own reward. I have wealthy friends who I've met through this that can't get this kind of access... so yeah, it's a 'good' problem to have, in the mean time, my retirement cache is wishing I paid it more attention :P

Cheers, Tusk