@DesertSweeper

Hi

. . . . .What am I missing out on by sticking to V17 . . . .

That depend a lot on your computer specification - what are the specs, see this topic for details required and please quote the processor and graphics card/chipset make/model in full?

The major change from Video Pro X11 is the move to a newer Infusion 'engine' now on its third iteration.

Have you seen the tutorials listed here for Movie Edit Pro - VPX little brother - the majority apply to VPX as well.

. . . . CorelVideo in the ease-of-use dept. . . .

This is intended for a very different market sector compared to VPX.

John EB
Forum Moderator

Thanks for the feedback folks! Computer-wise i suspect all is good with a recent-gen 8-core 16-thread CPU and an RTX 2080-TI and 64GB of RAM with dual NVMe drives. I realise my older version is not taking advantage of that NVDIA card as it would with the newer version, but as I said - performance is not my problem. I was imagining they had maybe overhauled the editor to some degree, making it easier and slicker for novices (one can dream!) to use. I did consider playing with the trial but feared complications in rolling back, should it not be what I want. In the end what I did do this morning was install the trial on my laptop (Lenovo P50 full-house) and noticed very quickly that it looks and feels pretty much the same.

And again as I said - I realise Corel is something of a "toy" - but it is actually surprisingly competent. It falls short however, in the reliability and output-quality side of things. Anything complicated and it bombs out and if it survives a render - you get a pretty horrible looking video - quality-wise.

Hence my foray into VP-X as a "reliable" consumer product that puts out decent quality. I actually also bought the full-version of Resolve but that makes VP-X look like Corel :) and is truly horrible for a novice to get their head around. I also have an older version of Vegas Pro (v17) but that is completely counter-intuitive in the way it handles time-changes. I want my Video Editor to double the clip-length if I slow it down by half...kind of a basic thing. Vegas Pro...where to start. Anyhooo that is for a different forum. I am going to work my way through tutorials and try to get to grips with my older VP-X and when and if I find it limiting I will throw some money at an upgrade.

Again, I appreciate the comment - gratitude

@DesertSweeper

Hi

. . . .  I realise my older version is not taking advantage of that NVDIA card as it would with the newer version . . . .

From your cameras video specs it looks like you are limited to Full HD, 1920 x 1080 maximum resolution video, however you may want to consider future use for 4K video.

If so and processor is not an Intel with UHD630 iGPU then the new version will more advantage of the 2080 ti for hardware acceleration of 4K video.

If the processor is an Intel with UHD 630 then it you have both GPU's available to VPX13 for acceleration, the same goes for the Lenovo - if it has Vantage installed you can run in hybrid mode - I do this on both my PC and laptop (also Lenovo).

. . . .  VP-X as a "reliable" consumer product . . . .  I am going to work my way through tutorials and try to get to grips with my older VP-X and when and if I find it limiting . . . .

You have to define 'limiting' - VPX is professional software with features for creating broadcast quality video, and as such changes from version to version are more under the hood then adding lots of fancy features and wizards. Its little brother Movie Edit Pro is prosumer, and Photostory is consumer - the current versions use the same core engine, however as you move down the scale some features and functions are missing and you get more wizards.

. . . . Vegas Pro . . . .

I have used this in the past before moving over to Movie Edit Pro and now VPX and would not recommend this editor given your experience with Video Studio and VPX - it is an entirely different beast with a huge learning curve and again is for professional use.

John EB

@DesertSweeper

Personally if it were me I wouldn't upgrade if the version you have is stable on your system.

You say your editing is basic and needs are few.

As others have pointed out, the main difference is the Infusion engine which is a lot more demanding of the hardware and if your system has no GPUs that can handle Direct X11.1 then you are going to have a performance hit.

You saying. My computer seems fast enough with the older version and I am happy to leave it rendering while I go for a walk. That sentence really has me worried. I'm hoping that is for something like an hour or more of video footage or it is a twenty minute walk. It's not just the time involved but how much is your processor going to work overtime? What is the CPU temperature going to be like?

The current version was built to handle 8K footage and whether you use that or not the coding is there and up to a point, in use.

That is a big performance hit for older systems. If the top clock speed is anywhere near 5GHz then maybe you will be okay.

Apart from the changes to how VPX works, there is a sharpening up of the graphics interface and a few bugs that still need ironing out. Size / Position has changed layout with some not liking the changes at all and also one of the bugs that needs fixing.

Still, try the demo as other have said.

Ray.

@DesertSweeper

You saying. My computer seems fast enough with the older version and I am happy to leave it rendering while I go for a walk. That sentence really has me worried. I'm hoping that is for something like an hour or more of video footage or it is a twenty minute walk. It's not just the time involved but how much is your processor going to work overtime? What is the CPU temperature going to be like?

LoL yes I go for a walk around the block and then kick it back under the bed again...MY CPU is the AMD Ryzen 4750G with the APU disabled (things get confused by that graphics processor so i just turned it off). So its just the ZOTAZ RTX 2080ti driving two QHD 27" monitors. The system is snappy and although the GoPro records in 4K I only output 1080p anyway.

The Lenovo has a 4/8-Core i7 with iGPU and an NVIDIA M1000 GPU but I prefer to work on the main system.

So there is another option I ponder, from some of the comments above: I have an equally old version of "Movie Edit Pro Premium" (v17.0.1.150) which - when I just launched, is offering to upgrade me to the latest version for $70. And that may be easier for me to use with my simple requirements...and bring me up to the latest engine for beer-money (beer is not cheap where I live)....???

@DesertSweeper

Hi,

Just so that everyone knows, what you refer to as V17 is VPX11 version 17.x.x.x. The product is now VPX13 version 19.x.x.x.

There is nothing wrong with VPX11. Just keep working with it. Other than changes to the engine, there are a few additional changes from VPX11 through 12 through 13, but not much. You can see the new features on the Magix.com site VPX12 to 13. When you see that people on this forum say that VPX13 is now properly usable, then you can consider upgrading. I am using VPX12 due to some problems with VPX13 that have not been resolved (not many left to be fixed) to my satisfaction. Also, I'm waiting for a new computer - everything is there, they tell me, except the motherboard.

For tutorials, see this thread. The important ones for you are Getting Started Part 3, then Basic Editing Parts 1 and 2. I suggest that you watch my tutorials on Everything Audio. There are more that show different aspects of editing. If you have specific questions, ask away.

 I want my Video Editor to double the clip-length if I slow it down by half...kind of a basic thing.

That is exactly what the Stretch mode/button / Speed effect do. They are linked. The Stretch mode button is on the button bar at the top of the Project Window (timeline). Right-click to open the list. Select stretch (shortcut 0). Change back to mouse mode for single object when done (shortcut 6). You should remove the sound (or ungroup it) if you are doing more than a bit of stretching or shrinking. There is a built-in limit before you have to remove or ungroup the audio from the video.

The above image is not the default setup - I have closed the Project folder. To work properly with VPX, one should use 2 screens.

Below shows the stretch effect applied to the clip and the corresponding effect, Speed. The audio has been ungrouped. You can see that the object is twice the length as the speed has been reduced by half (0.5). There is more that you can do as you can see in the Speed effect screen. I don't know how this could be any simpler and still have the same tools. I use stretch often for my Travel Maps videos. 6, drag the end of the clip, playback, adjust, 0.

For the audio, you have a Timestretch/resample effect to adjust the pitch which automatically changes if you change the speed.

Other features of VPX/MEP, some of which are not all usually available in competing products:

1. Multiple timelines (Movies);
2. Nesting (VPX only) by using a Movie as a clip in another Movie;
3. Travel Maps (Travel Route Animation);
4. SoundTrack Maker with different styles and moods;
5. Slideshow Maker with music, with objects cut to the beat, if the beat is available. Music styles come with the program and you can select your own music;
6. BPM wizard and align snap markers with transients;
7. Tracks (they all have tracks but VPX/MEP is simpler) –There are no Audio tracks, Video Tracks or Composite tracks, just tracks already there on the timeline screen – a track is a track and you can put whatever you want on it. Composite tracks are not required as composites are made of objects on the timeline with effects. No need to have separate tracks just to make composites each and every time.
8. Movie Templates – VPX/MEP come with many short movie templates that you can use to quickly create videos from 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Music comes with each template and everything is cut to the beat.
9. 3D title templates – MEP uses the built-in version of Xara 3D Maker for 3D static and animated titles. If you also get 3D Maker 7, then it opens and you use the interface to completely redesign the title. With VPX, the full 3D Maker 7 is available and opens.
10. Templates – there are many, including templates for Titles, Transitions, Movie & Editing, Intros/Outros, Themepacks, Movie Looks, Collages, Design Elements and Image Objects. Magix is continually adding new content available for purchase in the Store;
11. So, Store is not a feature, but it’s great if you want easy access to new content, including more titles, transitions, collages, in particular audio files for songs and sound effects, and third party plugins. Under the Audio tab are purchased audio files, including some that come free.

If you do not have Mercalli V5, then make sure that it comes with the upgrade to either VPX or MEP.

Here is the comparison table for VPX/MEP Premium. Note the main features of VPX over MEP - 2 monitors, measuring instruments (Vectorscope, Waveform Monitor, RGB Parade, Histogram), Temporary Project Folder (I use this a lot), multiple language tracks for creating multiple language DVD/BR's and much more. Go through the list carefully. Having used VPX for several years, I would not go back to MEP"

John CB

@DesertSweeper @browj2

Hi.

The reason @browj2 asked to make sure you get Mercalli V5 with VPX 13 should you decide to upgrade is because you will lose the ProDad Mercalli 2 image stabilizer. It's a good call over the standard Vegas option.

Unlike John though I am equally happy using either MEP or VPX.

Do you use any of the measuring instruments or know how to? Would you describe your editing as artful or technical? Are you into LUTS?

What I do like is the commercial free content with the VPX basic package. (not including third party products). In truth I use VPX about 20% of the time if I have problems with video footage and I have to admit VPX has the edge on smoothness of playback if a project gets complicated and the export times are on average shorter if you have the hardware to support it with some codecs.

Ray.

Thank you @CubeAce

I actually relied on Mercalli to the point that a bought their Stand Alone product proDrenalin V2 - disaster of an application - how to turn a 250Mb GoPro clip into 2GB...so yes the plug-in is rather crucial for my clips. I am technical - do not know how to spell artt

To clarify are you saying you use MEP 80% of the time and VPX 20% of the time?

@DesertSweeper

Hi

. . . . Movie Edit Pro Premium" (v17.0.1.150) . . . . is offering to upgrade me to the latest version for $70 . . . .

I agree with @browj2 comment - 'There is nothing wrong with VPX11. Just keep working with it. - get the basics under your belt first and then consider updating which I would not advise doing yet, in addition to John CB's comment regarding usability, you are gaining little except some new confusion with the Size, Position, Rotation effect which has changed in the way it works.

John EB

@DesertSweeper

Hi.

To clarify are you saying you use MEP 80% of the time and VPX 20% of the time?

Pretty much, yes.

Maybe because I started with MEP and it is cheaper to keep upgraded, but also because I like to get my footage as good as possible in camera so I don't tend to do a lot of altering of colour, contrast or sharpening of my video clips. I say artful as opposed to technical because I don't use the vector graphs much or histograms as that is all done in camera and what if I want a 'look' that does not conform with the graphs? Do I want a bleached look or a technicolor look? Do I want my sound to be more or less dynamic? If I get the sound wrong then a hosting site like YouTube will correct it for me, so anything less the 100% 100% in the 'Stats for nerds' section is going to show an adjustment and will be a different overall volume from my next one that I can hear. I don't monitor on headphones. I don't have a 4K 10 bit screen to see the graduation of a clear blue sky but still manage a band free graduation. Clouds are a bit trickier as are trying to avoid blue on white in shadow areas. Are my monitors calibrated? yes. As good as I can get it anyway. Will anyone else watching notice? Maybe, probably not.

VPX is great when all or some the above goes wrong and I need those fine adjustments. The additional controls on the basic effects are useful at that stage. Some effects also seem to run better in VPX than MEP. The art filter is a classic example on my system.

I am using VPX 11 and MEP 2022. I only paid £20 for my copy of VPX as part of a Humble Bundle offer to see what it was like. It is a full working copy and registered so I'm still entitled to the various upgrade offers.

So MEP at present is working roughly at the same pace as my copy of VPX but only because the hardware is there to support it. I expect if it wasn't it would be slower. Because I do work with 4K material I am close to needing an upgrade of the main GPU next I think as MEP 2022 is pushing the limits of my nvidia 1650 super.

I think by the time the next version comes out I will have to think about whether to skip a version or not or MEP as it is not often easy to go back to a previous version so I will have to do a clone of the c: drive before I decide or upgrade the odd component or two.

Ray.

@DesertSweeper @CubeAce

Hi,

The measuring instruments don't do anything, they just show what the status is. By looking at the graphs, and, of course, after some research and learning, it is easy to tell what is off and make adjustments using the normal tools and curves (not in MEP), saturation, etc. Trying to figure out what to do by looking at the image is often difficult, so seeing the graphs helps enormously. I don't use them to a "look" or to do colour grading, I use them to help with brightness, contrast, bringing up lows or highs, and colour correction. For colour grading, that is something else and there are tools and plugins for that.

John CB

So I have been focusing on my Movie Edit Pro (Premium V17) and really started enjoying it - it works well and is actually really easy to grasp afterall. Buuut there is one big problem with it (and my equal version of VPX) - most of my footage is upside-down from the Gopro. It is to do with the way the camera is mounted on my helmet. Normally you are not aware of this as, for example, playing it with a Windows Media player like PotPlayer senses that it should be inverted and mirrored. However when I import this it appears upside down. No problem - Effects>Video Object Effects>Rotation&Mirror...all good. Until you go to work with effects, where it reverts the footage to its native orientation, and then applies the effects to the corrected orientation after computing. So for example attaching an object results it in drifting off in the diagonally-opposite direction. I guess the solution is to render the raw footage first and then bring it back in - but that is not ideal by any means. Anyone figure out a way to fix this?

As an aside VEGAS 17 from the same era imports it the right-way-up (which is kind of wrong I guess) as does Corel VideoStudio. They somehow sense the Gopro was upside down as do media Players like VLC and PotPlayer. It is only Movie Edit pro and VPX that suck the stuff in upside down.

@DesertSweeper

Hi,

Which GoPro?

I have GoPro Hero 5 and do upside down videos often. I have no problems with the orientation in MEP2021 or VPX12. Your problem may be associated with the GoPro, not the editing program. Check on the GoPro forum if others are have similar problems with the same camera and parameters.

John CB

I use the GoPro7, and found another user on the forum with the same problem. I am using the older 2017 versions. so they may have fixed this in the later versions like you use. I tried the demo of the latest version but it will not import the Gopro footage as it requires a licensed codec. In the other thread he resolves his issue (rendering upside down) by rotating the footage 180 degrees rather than using the mirror button. But that does not work for me - same effects problems where for example a pan lands up going the wrong way after the fact. I am willing to buy the latest version of MEP if I know this is corrected...is there a bug-fix-list out there anywhere I can go through?

@DesertSweeper

Hi

. . . . In the other thread he resolves his issue (rendering upside down) by rotating the footage 180 degrees rather than using the mirror button. But that does not work for me - same effects problems where for example a pan lands up going the wrong way after the fact.  . . .

Does the GoPro have a 'Flip' option for recording upside down - it may be called something else as the term I used is for my Sony sportscam.

Rotation along the Z axis indicated in red below does not work for pans - it swaps left and right , try rotating 180° along the X axis indicated in green which swaps top/bottom

John EB

Thank you for responding - yes it does have a flip option, but I have hundreds of hours of footage already recorded that I am trying to edit.

And sadly using the X Axis to flip it, does not help. The moment you right click on the object, or introduce an effect, it goes back to upside-down in the preview and then when done, appears right-way up again. However the effects are still applied as per the upside down version...I have tried all the options now in that view/animation>Rotation/mirror menu.

I think I may have found a solution...a legacy Gopro app called "GoPro Quick" can apparently sort out the metadata. Unfortunately while you can download it - it requires joining up to Gopro and their system has been down today so you never get the confirmation email. I will be curious to see if the file-size remains the same after it has done its thing...will report back when I get it registered and working!

@DesertSweeper

Hi,

I use GoPro Quik for importing from my Hero 5. I just connect the GoPro to my computer, Quik opens to the Import page, my settings are already there, so I just click on Import Files. When done I Delete All from the GoPro, then I add context to the Folder dates. Could it be that Quik is importing the files with correct orientation info?

BTW, you have to use Z axis to rotate the clip, not X.

Perhaps you can post a short video on Dropbox that comes into MEP upside down so others can try it to see if they have the same problem in MEP2022/VPX13.

John CB

@browj2

Hi John

. . . . BTW, you have to use Z axis to rotate the clip, not X. . . . .

Normally that is correct and is the method @DesertSweeper linked to and tried,

. . . . however In the other thread he resolves his issue (rendering upside down) by rotating the footage 180 degrees rather than using the mirror button. But that does not work for me - same effects problems where for example a pan lands up going the wrong way after the fact. . . .

There is something odd going on with the video clips/camera for this to happen, and is where rotating on X would fix the orientation/pan.

I found this article which may put some light on the issue.

John EB

yes correct I can turn that off - but then it is upside down in normal players and all other editors.And moving forward that is what i will do. But all my legacy footage...problem. And the GoPro Quick app fails to save the rotated files - I see why they have abandoned it - not very stable. Yes I can upload a clip!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/blb3un9tk08y873/AAAhGyxYi59EuQM51mLgPCJ0a?dl=0

This clip imports to MEP upside down and then when rotated using ANY of the options will revert to upside down during the application of many effects like object-tracking for example.

@DesertSweeper @johnebaker @emmrecs @browj2

Hi.

I downloaded and used your clip in MEP 2022 with no importing problems whatsoever. It imported correct way up.

I added effects with no problems.

The only problem I had was MEP could not effectively exactly match the aspect ratio which was very slightly off but rendered just fine.

As John pointed out in one of your earlier posts that your hardware acceleration from your graphics cards were possibly not up to scratch I tried both using GPUs and again only using the CPU although MEP still grabs use of the Intel HD 630 of my machine even when not selected.

Ray.

@DesertSweeper

Hi

I too have tested your video clip - the MediaInfo data does show the Orientation flag is set correctly:

Width                                    : 2 704 pixels
Height                                   : 1 520 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Rotation                                 : 180°
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS

The nearest version of MEP I have to yours (2018) is 2016 and the clip imports upside down

MEP 2021, MEP 2022 and VPX13 import the clip correctly

I also tested the tracking to a position in the video using MEP 2016 and the video does revert to upside down and the tracking is off.

In MEP 2021 it tracks correctly as shown below.

I did not test this in MEP 2022 or VPX 13 as there is a bug in the tracking effect.

When you rotate the image using the rotate button or Z control are the bike speedo numbers displayed correctly or reversed?

John EB

Amazing - thank you both for your efforts! At least I know it is an issue with my older version. The speedo does reverse when I use The Z control but can fix that by then using the middle rotation tool set also to 180. However the behaviour persists no matter what combo I use. So it is time to open the wallet and purchase an upgrade. It is a pity because I was hoping to cut my teeth on MEP and then graduate up to my existing version 17 of VPX. Though I must say, so far MEP really does all I want.

The only concern is when you say there is a bug in 2022 with regards to tracking - would I be able to buy 2022 but retro-install 2021 with the same key?

EDIT: Look what i found on amazon:

There is currently a "special" on 2022 Premium at $70 which is the same price it would cost me to "upgrade" my copy so may as well just buy the retail. But would the retail box Amazon 2020 version sort my woes I wonder? Sits between your version 2021 @johnbaker and my creaky old 2017 version. when last did anyone buy a retail box of software :)