@jak.willis

Hi Jak

In a nutshell VBR mode allows the encoder to assign higher bitrates to those frames that need it, eg due to rapid movement (changes between frames) or high detail, and lower bitrates where there is little/no movement or low detail.

Do not touch the three Frame QP's values the results can be unpredictable and almost invariably result in poorer percieved quality. The same can be said for forcing Constant Bitrate.

The general advice is do not touch any of those settings, the presets are already optimised for percieved quality vs file size.

Personally I have found the MainConcept encoder to produce lower quality video at FullHD and 4K.

John EB

Hi John,

I understand what you’re saying but, as I said in my post, lowering the QP values resulted in better perceived quality. The default values of 24-25-27 gave me a much lower quality video. There is an option for Target Quality mode, but when I select it there doesn’t appear to be any changes with the settings. And there isn’t anything in the manual explaining what this mode actually does.

@jak.willis

Hi Jak

. . . . The default values of 24-25-27 gave me a much lower quality video. . . . .

Assuming the default Quantization Parameter (QP) settings of the MC encoder are for h.264 encoding, they are higher then I would expect, are resulting in a more compressed file.

Why they are set high I can only guess, for other encoders the values are usually 20-21-22 resulting in better perceived quality, though slightly larger file size.

The big problem is that, unless there are significant visible compression artefacts - then perceived quality is a value which is difficult to assess for subtle changes in the QP settings, without sophisticated video analysis software eg I may see the opposite of what you see on my computer for the same video export settings.

The question is - what is the final destination/usage of the exported video eg Youtube, Vimeo, as a video file playing on a smart TV or computer, for Blu-Ray disc etc? Depending on the destination the changes you make may be undone by factors outside your control.

I do not use the MC encoder, IMHO, the default encoder in MEP produces better results out of the box without any need for tweaking in most cases, however I have made some custom presets for specific scenarios of video usage.

John EB

@jak.willis @johnebaker

Hi Jak.

According to the Main Concept Developers website, Target Quality Mode is designed to help with live broadcasting at speeding up the encoding process over using the normal encoding method but they specify at a cost to the quality of the output for live video streams.

The version of the Main concept supplied within MEP is now several generations old I think and no longer available for use in MEP 2022. I don't know if it is still available in the latest release of VPX or not, but like John I prefer to use the encoder that Magix supplies. Possibly because the Main Concept version that was supplied is so old.

Ray.

 

The question is - what is the final destination/usage of the exported video eg Youtube, Vimeo, as a video file playing on a smart TV or computer, for Blu-Ray disc etc? Depending on the destination the changes you make may be undone by factors outside your control.

Hi John,

My target device would be a TV & Blu-ray Player.

Just so you know, I haven’t actually tried playing these test files on my Blu-ray Player yet, so the results that I’ve been seeing are from comparing the videos side by side on the timeline in MEP.

@jak.willis @johnebaker

Hi Jak.

According to the Main Concept Developers website, Target Quality Mode is designed to help with live broadcasting at speeding up the encoding process over using the normal encoding method but they specify at a cost to the quality of the output for live video streams.

The version of the Main concept supplied within MEP is now several generations old I think and no longer available for use in MEP 2022. I don't know if it is still available in the latest release of VPX or not, but like John I prefer to use the encoder that Magix supplies. Possibly because the Main Concept version that was supplied is so old.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

So if you were to select Target Quality mode then what changes? Because nothing in the export dialog seems to change and still requires you to specify a bitrate, etc.

@jak.willis

Hi Jak.

Sorry I've no idea. I'm not a codec developer and they don't give any details beyond what it is for.

There is possibly this type of support for those buying their new packages that now seem squarely aimed at professional studio use as one user licences. They also seem to have stopped supplying the main concept encoding pack that can be redistributed by third parties under licence. That may explain its absence in MEP 2022.

Ray.

@jak.willis

Hi Jak.

Sorry I've no idea. I'm not a codec developer and they don't give any details beyond what it is for.

There is possibly this type of support for those buying their new packages that now seem squarely aimed at professional studio use as one user licences. They also seem to have stopped supplying the main concept encoding pack that can be redistributed by third parties under licence. That may explain its absence in MEP 2022.

Ray.

Ah, that’s interesting. Well thanks for letting me know.

@jak.willis

Hi

. . . . My target device would be a TV & Blu-ray Player . . . .

The MC encoder is ignored in MEP when burning to BD disc, the default codec is used.

Using 3rd party BD disc creation software and exporting as h.264 AVCHD format - .m2ts file extension - from MEP using the MC encoder runs the risk of creating incompatible files and/or the software re-encoding them to the correct standard.

Additionally there are issues I am finding using the MC codec:-

1. exporting as MP4 with MC set to use Software encoding the video appears to export fine, however you end up with an unplayable 0 byte file - this is a known issue with the MC encoder and has never been fixed - probably as @CubeAce has allured to, the encoder is old.
    
2. The recommendation has been to set the MC encoder to use IntelQSV, the video exports and plays however, I am finding that the timeline video is being squashed to approx 4:3 aspect ratio inside a 16:9 video file.
    
3. The other encoder settings in the MC encoder do not work in MEP, resulting in an error message.

MEP 2022 and VPX 13 do not have the option to download/install the MC encoder

John EB

@johnebaker @jak.willis

Hi Jak.

After a bit of digging around it turns out Dvix owned Main Concept around the time of the main concept encoder supplied by Magix. Dvix does do, and is known for volume licensing. They were both taken over in early 2011. Dvix and Main Concept was again later sold off in 2014. This is my guess as to why it was never updated as the businesses split.

Ray.

@jak.willis

Hi

. . . . My target device would be a TV & Blu-ray Player . . . .

The MC encoder is ignored in MEP when burning to BD disc, the default codec is used.

Using 3rd party BD disc creation software and exporting as h.264 AVCHD format - .m2ts file extension - from MEP using the MC encoder runs the risk of creating incompatible files and/or the software re-encoding them to the correct standard.

Additionally there are issues I am finding using the MC codec:-

1. exporting as MP4 with MC set to use Software encoding the video appears to export fine, however you end up with an unplayable 0 byte file - this is a known issue with the MC encoder and has never been fixed - probably as @CubeAce has allured to, the encoder is old.
    
2. The recommendation has been to set the MC encoder to use IntelQSV, the video exports and plays however, I am finding that the timeline video is being squashed to approx 4:3 aspect ratio inside a 16:9 video file.
    
3. The other encoder settings in the MC encoder do not work in MEP, resulting in an error message.

MEP 2022 and VPX 13 do not have the option to download/install the MC encoder

John EB

Hi John,

Thanks for the useful information. To be honest, I didn’t actually realise how old MainConcept is. In the “about” section on mine it says 2012.

So, apart from the default Intel encoder, is there any other encoders that I can use with MEP? For instance, is it possible to use the x264 encoder with it?

@johnebaker @jak.willis

Hi Jak.

After a bit of digging around it turns out Dvix owned Main Concept around the time of the main concept encoder supplied by Magix. Dvix does do, and is known for volume licensing. They were both taken over in early 2011. Dvix and Main Concept was again later sold off in 2014. This is my guess as to why it was never updated as the businesses split.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

Do you mean Divx? And, who was MainConcept sold off to? Is there a newer encoder that took it's place?

@jak.willis

Hi Jak

. . . .  is there any other encoders that I can use with MEP? For instance, is it possible to use the x264 encoder with it? . . . . 

There are very few encoder codecs available that will work with MEP.  Using 'all in one' codec packs is not recommended as the result from the encoders tend to be inferior to those supplied by Magix or cause issues.

Quicktime is no longer supported, Quicktime Alternative is available and may work with MEP 2017 to 2019, however the adjustable options are restricted, similar to those of the default h.264 encoder.

DivX no longer works with any version of MEP from 2016 onwards.

The current trend is moving towards HEVC / h.265 encoding, however this, like the default h.264 encoder supplied, has few options to change the encoding parameters, they are already optimised to a good balance between perceived quality and file size, and not all devices support this format which requires a lot more processing power for encoding or playback.

As i said above for Blu-Ray you are limited to the default h.264 encoder.

John EB

@jak.willis

Hi Jak.

Did you not look at the rest of the Main Concept site?

Yes they do a lot of encoders going up to around £1,000 for single end user use. Like I said I think they are mainly interested in selling to studios and broadcasters. BlackMagix is another customer as have Adobe and AMD in the past.

There are a lot of videos on the Main Concept site aimed at professionals. I don't think these types of encoders and SDKs are the types of things made for the average consumer any more.

Endeavor Streaming as far as I'm aware is the main company currently owning Main Concept.

Apparently Main Concept still do volume licensing to large corporations and educational establishments with contact details to their sales department that can be found on the Main Concept website.

The Main Concept website is huge and I don't understand most of the programs on offer or how or if they can be integrated into another program or if they are standalone applications. You will have to sift through that for yourself if you are interested. From what little I can tell it would be the sort of company I would go to if I were a camera manufacturer and needed to adapt an encoder for use in my camera as an example or a manufacturer of broadcasting equipment.

Ray.

Other encoders can be used via the "AVI" export. Here's x264 that I installed for use with Virtual Dub:

Don't ask me how to use it! 😉

@AAProds

Hi Al.

You are a constant source of surprise to me. 😃

Ray.

@jak.willis

Hi

Going off on another track, same issue though -

. . . . The resolution of the test clip used is 720x576i @ 25fps.. . . .

If you are upscaling this in MEP and viewing it the resulting video on a 1920 x 1080, or higher resolution, monitor or TV then the resulting image is going to look poor quality compared to a source video of 1920 x 1080 or higher.

For 720x576i source video try creating a standard DVD and then let the BD player/TV do the upscaling - the upscalers in the BD/TV tend to do a better job then the software.

@CubeAce

You should have seen @AAProds website from many years ago - full of useful information - is it still up Alwyn?

John EB

@johnebaker

You should have seen @AAProds website from many years ago - full of useful information - is it still up Alwyn?

No John, largely out of date now. I'd like to update it but that will be a future job.