V17 Strange Behavior

Frederick-Vobbe wrote on 7/15/2023, 7:51 PM

After updating Sound Forge v17.0.2 (Build 109) 64 bit, I've found myself in a rather tough spot due to a software bug.

I can load a file, and all seems normal. After working with the file, eq, fixing clips, levels; it appears that the waveform on the screen unlocks from the file, and it becomes completely unusable!! For example, I can take a nice clean file, place it on the timeline and all of a sudden as it plays it's jumping around, or will midway through the song and come to the end of the timeline and stop. FRUSTRATING as I don't know what is causing this, but it seems like it's random.

Old fuzzy memory from when Sound Forge was in Madison WI has me thinking this was an issue with an old version, and their solution was to use a rather unknown tool to "rescan" and rebuild the GUI on the screen.

I need some help as I'm getting behind with what I need to do. And again, all was normal until the latest update. HELP.

  • File plays OK on VLC and Windows Media player
  • File is Stereo, I've sourced both WAV and MP3, which do the same thing.
  • It's unpredictable when it happens, but once it grudges the file and the graphical falls apart, it's unrecoverable.

ANYONE RECALL HOW TO TAKE A FILE AND RESCAN IT?

 

Comments

SP. wrote on 7/16/2023, 1:53 AM

@Frederick-Vobbe If you use compressed audio files try enabling Options > Preferences > General > Always proxy compressed formats.

emmrecs wrote on 7/16/2023, 8:06 AM

@Frederick-Vobbe

Have you checked that your graphics drivers are fully up to date? Go to the manufacturer's website rather than depending on Windows Update to check this for you.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Intel i7 Quad Core 6700K @ 4GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1660TI and Intel HD530 Graphics, MOTU 8-Pre f/w audio interface, VPX, MEP, Music Maker, PhotoStory Deluxe, Photo Manager Deluxe, Xara 3D Maker 7, Reaper, Adobe Audition 3, CS6 and CC, 2 x Canon HG10 cameras, 1 x Canon EOS 600D, Akaso EK7000 Pro Action Cam

rraud wrote on 7/16/2023, 9:44 AM

I do not recall any reports of that behavior in Sound Forge 16-17 (Pro or AS), so it may be specific to your PC.
Try deleting the companion waveform <.sfk> file. Restart SF and reopen the source file. The waveform file would be in the same folder as the source file.
If all else fails, try the SF reset procedure or fully uninstall with a third-party uninstaller that removes the pertinent leftover data and reinstall.

btw, welcome to the Magix Sound Forge users community @Frederick-Vobbe.

Frederick-Vobbe wrote on 7/17/2023, 5:59 PM

@Frederick-Vobbe If you use compressed audio files try enabling Options > Preferences > General > Always proxy compressed formats.

Explain more about "proxy" and how that might play into the problem. Read my long message below as there is a hint that VBR might have a factor.

Frederick-Vobbe wrote on 7/17/2023, 5:59 PM

@Frederick-Vobbe

Have you checked that your graphics drivers are fully up to date? Go to the manufacturer's website rather than depending on Windows Update to check this for you.

Jeff
Forum Moderator

Fully up to date, and the machine can not find any new updates to install.

Frederick-Vobbe wrote on 7/17/2023, 6:02 PM

I do not recall any reports of that behavior in Sound Forge 16-17 (Pro or AS), so it may be specific to your PC.
Try deleting the companion waveform <.sfk> file. Restart SF and reopen the source file. The waveform file would be in the same folder as the source file.
If all else fails, try the SF reset procedure or fully uninstall with a third-party uninstaller that removes the pertinent leftover data and reinstall.

btw, welcome to the Magix Sound Forge users community @Frederick-Vobbe.

Deleting the SFK doesn't seem to help. The MP3 plays OK in other players, and as soon as the MP3 is opened on the time line the newly created SFX looks good on the time line, but the file skips and plays as before. Same file in VLC and Win Media Player is OK.

Frederick-Vobbe wrote on 7/17/2023, 6:04 PM

Sorry for not replying sooner, but I'm trying to see if there is a pattern, and so far there is no logical explaination.

IT has checked the machine, and it's working flawlessly with other apps.  The drivers are the latest, and "urging" Windows to check for newer drivers yeilds nothing.  Check the drive for errors.  The one thing which is common is the upgrade to Version 17.0.2 (Build 109) 64-bit.  At the end is the properties.

Here's a little test we rant today.

(01) Opened SF, and loaded an MP3 file.  File reports as 256 Kbps, 48 kHz, 16 bit stereo, 6:23.112 in length.  Problem is, it's highly clipped.
(02) After it's on the timeline, it plays fine and all graphic representation is correct and accurate.
(03) I go to FX PLUG-Ins, MAGIX, Clipped Peak Restoration.  I select "[Sys] -3 dB with limiter" with "Enable post-limiter".  
--- (03a) RX7, RX8, and RX10 were all tried., 
(04) Then I save.
(05) When I play it, it's skipping and as you see in ERROR-1, the music should have faded out, but it's play from somewhere in the middle.

Next, we convert the file immediately from an MP3 to a WAV.   This was done with both loading the MP3 on the time line, and using TOOLS/BATCH CONVERTER

(11) Opened SF, and loaded an MP3 file.  File reports 256 Kbps, 48 kHz, 16 bit stereo, 6:23.112 in length.  Problem is, it's highly clipped.
(12) Rather that work with it as an MP3 it was converted to WAV 48 khz, 16 bit stereo.  So far, so good.  However, the peaks which were at -.05 are now "popping" as they are clipped at 0.
(13) I go to FX PLUG-Ins, MAGIX, Clipped Peak Restoration.  I select "[Sys] -3 dB with limiter" with "Enable post-limiter".  
(14) Then I save in its same format, WAV.   NO skipping.
(15) I then save it again, this time as an MP3 256 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, 16 bit stereo.
(16) When I play it, it's skipping and as you see in ERROR-2, the music should have faded out, but it's play from somewhere in the middle.

Next, since the WAV file is good, (carefully listened to the whole track with two other post editors, and IT guy, we tried a different save.

(21) Opened SF, and loaded the good WAV file.  File reports 48 kHz, 16 bit stereo, 6:23.112 in length.  Again, verified as good.
(22) This time, I used a different setting.  From Template: 320 Kbps, CD Transparent Audio, which is One minute of audio compresses to a file size of approximately 2.29 MB (about 4:1 compression).  Quality is Fast Encoding, and VBR is not checked.
(23) When I bump up the quality to HIGH QUALITY, I'm allowed to change the Bit Rate to "320 Kbps, 48,000 hz".  VBR is not checked.
(24) Then I save the file with attributes.  And this time it plays OK

This is not house standard, and it's always worked in the past decade with VBR, but for some reason it's not working now.  And again, the problem started as soon as the upgrade was made.

While some of you may cheer and say it's fixed, what makes me nervous is we just changed the standard of a 47,284 song music library, and we have no clue how radio station playout systems will respond to the change from one stardard to another.  And we can't tell them to fix a problem we may cause.

So are there any thoughts on what the issue may be, and why the music skips around, while the timeline transition is smooth.  And why does it play the middle of the song 2 seconds from the end while the graphical interfaced shows it should be low or no audio?

Did the upgrade somehow damage the MP3 encoding, and if so, how is that fixed?

_______________________
Operating System
  Platform: Windows 10.0 (64-bit)
  Version: 10.00.22621
  Language: English
  System locale: English
  User locale: English

Processor
  Class: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 Six-Core Processor
  Identifier: AuthenticAMD
  Number of processors: 12
  MMX available: Yes
  SSE available: Yes
  SSE2 available: Yes
  SSE3 available: Yes
  SSSE3 available: Yes
  SSE4.1 available: Yes
  SSE4.2 available: Yes

Display
  Primary: 1920x1080x32

Memory
  Physical memory: 8,143.6 MB
  Paging memory available: 8,721.9 MB

rraud wrote on 7/18/2023, 10:43 AM

Hi @Frederick-Vobbe, 8GB of of RAM is not much these days and could affect the playback of lossy file types without the proxy option enabled. CBR (constant bit rate) is usually recommended for MP3s if there are playback problems and for streaming over the internet. Encoding lossy file types using low bitrates can induce clipping if there is minimal headroom. I would also disable 'Joint Stereo' encoding, which was made the default in SF 16-17. The advanced MP3 parameters were disabled and hidden, There was a recent topic on this...
https://www.magix.info/us/forum/stereo-vs-joint-stereo-in-sound-forge-17--1327168/

btw, the 'Proxy' function has no affect on PCM files.