@johnebaker

Thanks John, the drivers are up to date. I've raised a support ticket.

AndyW

@me_again

Andy, to add some info, on my system (RTX 3060Ti), with GPU selected for HW encoding, I don't get it ("Mixdown..." only), but I have full control over the bitrate (I set 3,000 for the average and it gave me 2700).

Regardless of the HW settings in Device options, I don't get any HW accel indicated on export for AV1.

@AAProds

Hi Al.

While your 3060Ti won't do AV1 encoding the Intel UHD 770 of your i7 13700K should.

@me_again

Hi Andy.

I'm not sure but it could be the nvidia card could only be allowing lossless AV1 encoding which would explain the higher bit rate but that is just a guess.

Some of you may want to read and watch here.

Ray.

@CubeAce

Greetings Ray, that's a good point about the Lossless AV1 but it only happens when I use Nvidia hardware encoding; when I turn HW off then the bitrate settings are respected.

Both Handbrake and Xmedia Recode allow Nvidia hardware encoding at whatever bitrate I want. The problem is without doubt a Magix one.

@AAProds

Greetings Al, once again Ray has hit the nail on the head - the Intel UHD 770 does encode AV1 but there are some very peculiar results. I'll explain.

Earlier today I was editing a short VHS to AVI at 50 fps. It's 5:09 minutes long with effects such as Neatvideo, Mercalli Pro v6 stabising, a bit of CMOS Fixr, volume adjustment, Gamma etc (it was a rubbish bit of videoing). I encoded it to 960x720 (lowish resolution for a Whatsapp post) and encoded it to HEVC with the RTX 4060; export setiings @ variable bitrate 1500 kbps and max 5000 kbps and it took 4:14 minutes.

This gave an MP4 of size 61.3 Mb with video data rate (VDR) of 1564kbps - Windows Explorer figures for convenience

Afterwards I thought I'd play about with AV1 again using the same settings as for HEVC.

The results using the RTX 4060 as all 3 settings in MS2024 program settings:

With hardware encoding (HW) size 446 Mb with VDR of 11,999 kbps taking 4:12 minutes to encode.

WITHOUT HW size 54.7 Mb with VDR of 1354 kbps taking 8:19 minutes to encode.

The results using Intel UHD 770 as all 3 settings in MS2024 program settings:

With HW size 54.6 Mb with VDR of 1352 kbps taking 5:59 minutes to encode.

WITHOUT HW size 53.5 Mb with VDR of 1353 kbps taking 5:57 minutes to encode.

So it looks like Ray's correct about the HW encoding being lossless. As for using the UHD 770 it doesn't make any difference whether HW is applied or not.

Just thought you may be interested.

AndyW

Regardless of what the theory is, a computer with a 770 and a 3060 or 4060 will encode AV1 at a user-set bitrate. Perhaps the required spec is the CPU.

Thanks Andy.

@me_again, @AAProds

Hi Andy, Al

When encoding AV1 is there activity in the indicated graph, or is the CPU shooting up to 90 - 100% usage?

John EB

@johnebaker

Zero for Encode on 3060. For the UHD770, "3D" was on 40%, CPU around 60% (it doesn't have an "Encode" display).

When the 3060 was selected in HW options, the CPU was on 60-80% (different to earlier, as this time I was exporting UHD video).

@AAProds

Hi Al

Thanks for the info, comparable to what I am seeing on my system.

John EB

With MMS 2024, I just exported an AV1 from my crummy old i5 with non-descript 12 yo GPU.

@johnebaker

Sorry for the delay in replying John.

With Intel GPU in Program settings - no difference whether encoding with GPU on or off:

Intel GPU 3D @ 15%, CPU @ 40%, Nvidia @ 0 encode and 0.2 Gb shared memory, Memory 14.9%

With Nvidia 4060 GPU in Program Settings:

GPU ON - Intel GPU @ 4% 3D, CPU @ 70%, Nvidia @ 24% 3D + 6% encode, Memory 12.5%

GPU OFF - Intel GPU @ 4% 3D, CPU @ 25%, Nvidia @ 47% 3D, Memory 15.4%

AndyW

edit - I've just noticed that an MP4 HW encoded to AV1 by my RTX 4060 has no search ability in that the video plays in a video player but when clicking on the timeline to move forward (or backward) the video freezes but the audio doesn't. When copy re-encoded with Avidemux the search works.

This does not happen when the AV1 is NOT hardware encoded with the RTX 4060

@me_again

Hi Andy

. . . . the video plays in a video player but when clicking on the timeline to move forward (or backward) the video freezes but the audio doesn't . . . .

Can you post a MediaInfo analysis of this file please.

John EB

@johnebaker as requested

Media Info:

General
Complete name                            : D:\Nvidia+GPU.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/av01/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 447 MiB
Duration                                 : 5 min 9 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 12.1 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2024-04-06 06:03:31 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-04-06 06:03:31 UTC

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AV1
Format/Info                              : AOMedia Video 1
Format profile                           : Main@L4.0
Codec ID                                 : av01
Duration                                 : 5 min 9 s
Bit rate                                 : 12.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 960 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 50.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.347
Stream size                              : 442 MiB (99%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-04-06 06:03:31 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-04-06 06:03:31 UTC
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : av1C

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 5 min 9 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 4.72 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2024-04-06 06:03:31 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2024-04-06 06:03:31 UTC

AndyW

@me_again

Hi Andy

Thanks for the MediaInfo data, that rules out some possible causes.

. . . . when clicking on the timeline to move forward (or backward) the video freezes . . .

Is the freeze permanent or does the player catch, possible running the video at a higher speed to catch up with the audio?

Playing AV1 in VLC freezes for me when you try seeking, none of my other 6 players will play it.

The only program I can get to seek correctly in is Firefox

John EB

@johnebaker

That's very interesting John.

My preferred PC video player is Media Player Classic and after reading your post I tried playing the AV1 video in the others I have and they all played it.

Much thinking and a strong cup of tea later and I think i've cracked that.

Before last Christmas when I first started playing with AV1 I had the same problem, with not being able to play the files and so I installed the free AV1 codec from Microsoft Store.

I've just uninstalled it and the AV1 file does NOT play in most of my video players.

I reinstalled it and "voila", it plays in them.

It seems you don't need to use the paid for version offered.

AndyW

ps strangely Media Player Classic still has the freeze problem.

@johnebaker @me_again

Hi.

Last time I looked VLC player did not support AV1 and I would think Media Player classic is too old and was last updated in 2017 as far as I can find out. Firefox was an early adopter but I think Edge also now supports AV1. Not sure about Oprah. Windows has provided that decoder for some time now.

I have still to find a dedicated camera that can record to AV1.

For me personally this is at present a curiosity. You can't currently upload it to a video sharing site unless it is for real time broadcast on YouTube (please correct me if I'm wrong) and not all TVs can play it. Apparently the Amazon firestick can though and you could possibly share it to another phone. It would also be useful if you edited on both PC and Mac. There is a definite benefit to watching streaming services that use it as the image quality is now much better.

I guess for some making recordings from VCR it may be useful but the files from doing that are already quite small compared to MP4 4K files.

I wonder what people are using it for?

Ray.