Surround sound on Blu-ray

cdkeeka wrote on 7/4/2016, 11:57 AM

I am editing video on MEP2016 Premium.

My PC runs Windows 10 Home, Intel i7 CPU 950, Nvidia Gforce GTX570, 12GB Ram.

My original (Panasonic HDC-HS250) camera recording is in HD with surround sound. After editing, I tried to record to Blu-ray but find the sound is only in stereo. My player has a blue light which comes on for surround recordings - this does not light. In MEP, I have 'pressed' the Surround button in the Sound Mixer and also chosen the "1920x1080i PAL Surround" option in the Burn dialog.

Also the INFO box in the BD Burning>Encoder Settings>Burn Bluray Video Exports> Presets screen shows:

MPEG4 Export (M2TS) GPU:
Video: 1920x1080i; 25.00 Frames/s; H.264 18000 kbit/s
Audio: 48000 Hz; Dolby Surround; AC3

What makes it irritating is that when I burn the very same project in normal DVD format, with the surround AC3 option, the sound in the resulting DVD is in surround and the blue light in the player lights.

I have used various versions of Magix Video editing software for more than 10 years, so I thought I knew most of its idiocrancies!

What am I doing wrong - would be grateful for any ideas.

Thanks

Comments

johnebaker wrote on 7/5/2016, 8:33 AM

Use MediaInfo to analyse the 00000.mts file on the BD disc which is showing this issue. You need to switch MediaInfo to Tree view and you should see something like this in the audio section of the results if the audio is full surround sound:

Audio
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 30 s 688 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz

If this is OK then the issue may be related to the codec used to render the video or the graphics card if using GPU (harware) Acceleration.

Which codec is set on the programs settings (Y key) , Import Export tab

I am using the Intel codec (Default) and the integrated HD4600
graphics processor and cannot replicate the issue.

If the audio is stereo then check the following setting BD Disc burn dialog, Encoder, Advanced option

HTH

John EB

cdkeeka wrote on 7/6/2016, 10:56 AM

Hi John

Thanks for your answer. I ran MediaInfo. You mention file 00000.mts but on my disk the file is 00000.m2ts.

MediaInfo showed the following in the Audio section:

Audio
ID                                                         : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                               : 1 (0x1)
Format                                                : AC-3
Format/Info                                          : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                                   : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                           : 129
Duration                                              : 50 min
Bit rate mode                                      : Constant
Bit rate                                               : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                                          : 6 channels
Channel positions                              : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                                     : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                                         : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Compression mode                             : Lossy
Stream size                                         : 161 MiB (2%)

As you see, the info seems ok, but the surround decoder does not seem to trigger - at least the light does not come on. So the signal seems to be missing? I have tried other Blu-ray professional DVDs on this player and the light comes on. Changing the audio modes can make the audio sound like surround, but obviously it is not, as the rear speakers seem to be playing the front sound as well.

I did check the Encoder Advanced option and that was on 'Surround'.

I tried recording with the Import/Export setting at Default, but there was no change (thank goodness for BD-RE disks!)

Is the difference between file format your '.mts' and my '.m2ts' a clue?

The next step is to find a friend with a Blu-ray player just to compare.

Any more help would be much appreciated

Regards

Cyrus

cdkeeka wrote on 7/6/2016, 12:26 PM

Tried to burn a BD Disc in MP2 format

In the Advance/General tab, there is a error message:

"Warning: Invalid BluRay or AVVHD audio type, should be HDMV."

Something to do with my original recording being in AVCHD?

Couldn't find anything in the Forum.

Regards

johnebaker wrote on 7/6/2016, 4:13 PM

. . . . Is the difference between file format your '.mts' and my '.m2ts' a clue? . . . .

Apologies - that was a typo - the extension is m2ts.

. . . . thank goodness for BD-RE disks! . . . .

Agree totally with this - I have been recommending using rewriteable for a long time in the forum.

I have spent some time trying to find a good surround sound sample file which will load into MEP.

All the ones I have found will not load - 'error codec not available' and converting them gives the same result.

Try opening the BD project in ME and then open the Mixer (M key) and select the 5.1 Surround sound option as shown below - if you get a popup saying the audio configuration needs changing - cancel it.

Then play the timeline - if all the channels are present in the audio you should see the individual channel meters - which IIRC are Front left, front right, centre, LFE, rear left and rear right - moving (I have no video with very low frequencies so my LFE meter did not move.

HTH

John EB

cdkeeka wrote on 7/11/2016, 9:54 AM

Hi John

Sorry for delay, life interupted at the weekend.

To save rendering time, I created a 5min project using some of the files from the original project.

I did as you suggested. First extracted the audio channels showed them seperately on the timeline. The Mixer showed them seperately and when played in MEP on the PC with 5.1 sound system, all the sounds are there in the correct positions. Muting each timeline showed that all were playing correctly .

The problem seems to be during burning. The signal for the decoder seems to be missing (?). So the Disc does not play with surround on the BlueRay player.

Below have copied the whole readout from MediaInfo for your perusal

General
ID                                                 : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : E:\BDMV\STREAM\00000.m2ts
Format                                          : BDAV
Format/Info                                   : Blu-ray Video
File size                                        : 789 MiB
Duration                                        : 5 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                             : 19.3 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate             : 48.0 Mb/s

Video
ID                                            : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                     : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                          : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC         : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames     : 2 frames
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                   : 5 min
Bit rate mode                           : Variable
Bit rate                                    : 18.0 Mb/s
Width                                       : 1 920 pixels
Height                                      : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                 : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                             : YUV
Chroma subsampling              : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                 : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan type, store method         : Separated fields
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                   : 0.347
Stream size                              : 737 MiB (93%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                        : BT.709
Transfer characteristics            : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                     : BT.709

Audio
ID                                             : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                   : 1 (0x1)
Format                                    : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                       : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness   : Big
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                  : 5 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                      : 448 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                     : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                                : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
Compression mode                   : Lossy
Stream size                               : 18.3 MiB (2%)

Regards

Cyrus

Scenestealer wrote on 7/14/2016, 2:21 AM

Hi Cyrus

Is that the Media info from the original video or from the rendered file from MEP?

Does the rendered file play in 6 channel on your PC if you pull it back into a new MEP project, or for that matter using WMP or some other player?

The only anomally I can see in the Media info is that it reports an odd 31.250 frame audio framerate where it normally would not show a frame rate as in John's example. This could be upsetting the works but am not sure what it means.

cdkeeka wrote on 7/23/2016, 11:51 AM

Hi John and Scenestealer
Thanks for your help and advice.
I think the problem has been solved and I was somewhat annoyed when I found the reason.

What confused matters was that when I compared with the commercial Blu-ray disk, (Star Wars, Men in Black, Minority Report, etc), everything played normally – the decoder light lit and all the audio channels played. But when I played the Blue-ray produced with MEP, the audio was not in surround and the decoder light did not light.

This got me thinking that there was something wrong with the Magix Blu-ray surround recording process; as I mentioned before the standard DVD surround burning process worked. I had even started to think that perhaps my BD burner had somehow failed, not recording a code, or needed upgrading or it was something to do with the upgrade to Windows 10.

I had checked the players’ settings and optical fibre connections a number of times, which made me think Magix was the problem, and hence my cry for help!

In the meantime, I also discussed the problem with a friend telling him that the MediaInfo advised by John seemed to show that the recording was ok. He kindly offered to produce a short video project, with surround audio, on his own MEP and send me a PAL ISO image file and also a zipped version of his project files to test my MEP and system. What he produced, as I later found out, was a Blu-ray video file about 2 minutes long, with seperate sounds for each channel, and on screen text showing which speaker should be playing. He warned me that he had purposely increased the volume of the audio to make it more noticeable.

With the ISO image burned to disc, I had an unadulterated file from a trusted outside source to test with.
When I played it on the Blu-ray player, only the front channels played - no LFE, no rear channels, and no decoder light.
Trusting that the ISO derived disc recording must be OK, I finally concluded that it must be a player problem.

This was puzzling, not to say intensely frustrating and irritating. For the umpteenth time I looked at my players' system setup menus, reset everything to default and played the ISO derived recording again. There was no change.

Wondering whether to go to bed around 2:00 am, I was scrolling through the players' settings menu one last time, and decided to look through the Service Menu where there was a page called 'Video Settings', which I had probably skipped simply because it said 'Video Settings'. Clicking on that took me to 'BD Settings' section which had options for a number of BD related options, and deep in there was a 'BD-Audio Output (Optical Digital)' option (what the hell was it doing in the Video Settings section - especially as there was already a Audio Settings section elsewhere, which I had already checked).

Clicking on this 'BD-Audio Output (Optical Digital)', there were three options, 'Linear', 'Direct' and 'Mixed'. The 'Linear' option was already highlighted. Highlighting 'Direct' brought up a 'May not play some BD audio' message, so with nothing to lose, I highlighted 'Mixed'. It appears that the ‘Direct’ and ‘Mixed’ settings send unprocessed audio to the amplifier.

I then played the ISO derived Blu-ray disk. WOW – he was right; the sound was loud, especially for 2:45am! But who cares - the decoder light lit and all the channels played perfectly! I then loaded the project files to my MEP and burned that to Blu-ray and again it worked perfectly in the player! When I burned and played my own short test project, hearing the voice of a person talking behind the camera was most satisfying.

By then it was about 4am but to say I was overjoyed to see the blue decoder light with sounds from the correct speakers, would be an understatement! I think the problem has now been solved.
So it wasn't Magix's fault after all.

I had never noticed this setting on the player - I've had it for a number of years, and had happily watched Blu-ray films on it all that time. The professionally produced Blu-ray disks probably have multiple audio formats(?)

I owe my friend a big thank you and a large drink

My advice to all, is to check and triple check everything and never to take anything for granted.

Scenestealer, regarding the odd 31.250 audio frame rate. Checked my older DVDs and funnily some have this figure and some don‘t – even with different camera and different version of MEP. Not sure what that is about, but it does not seem to be a problem so I have left it.

John, thanks for suggesting MediaInfo.

With Thanks and Regards,
Cyrus